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Old 21st August 2015, 18:41   #196
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Test Drive & Ownership Report - Now with Bilsteins!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
Are you sure FE drop is 10%?!! That's too high. IMO it should not be more than 3 to 4%.
FE shown by the MFD used to be above 20 on that road while driving towards Mysore (downhill). Yesterday, it was showing 17-18 KMPL.

I thought, tyres may need to run for about 200 Kms to show it's true color..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
I am never convinced about the virtues of Nitrogen over air. Air is good enough for me.
Nitrogen is way better. It is cooler / inert / retains less moisture / less dense than Oxygen (therefore retains constant pressure).

But it is practically cumbersome - May not be of much use for common automotive usage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
With the same B6 set up, the control and confidence when driving on wider PS3s is much higher than when I was on PLC.
PS3 + B6 really gets the car glued to the surface.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Santoshbhat View Post
I am not convinced about this theory of yours to be honest!
Engine passes on the power / torque to the GB, which in-turn passes it on to the wheels. Wheel then drives the car through traction. GB is the load for the engine and wheels are the load for the GB. If the wheel spins without traction, load is less for the GB - If the GB is not stressed, engine is less loaded.

Just my analogy - I might be wrong - Please ignore it.
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Old 24th August 2015, 20:07   #197
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Thumbs up Update @ 600 Kms with Bilstein & PS3

Bilstein B6 Suspension struts: "When stock coils are retained and struts replaced with Bilstein B6 , there will be negligible difference in ride-quality." This is completely true with Jetta; In-fact, one should experience this for themselves, to believe!

This combination evens out everything, except for those sharp potholes; Which feels a bit more pronounced, than the stock-setup.

Strong dampeners push the wheel down and ensure that the tyres make proper contact with the road, thereby increasing traction - Suddenly, that extra grip is felt and it increases confidence.

Driving on the curves is a delight. Body-roll is as before, but the firm suspension gives added confidence. However, body-roll during lane changes and overtakes, has considerably reduced.

Bilstein B6 - Comes with 2 years unlimited mileage warranty from Pete's. This shows the confidence the manufacturer has, on quality of the product!



Michelin Pilot Sport 3 - 225/50ZR16 92W: What can I say? Suddenly, Jetta has grown one segment higher! Car feels and grips so good.

I honestly thought (worried) that 225 width may be too big for the Jetta and may be un-necessary: Since it may be one size too big, it may induce drag and thereby reduce FE: This was compounded further with mixed opinion coming from experienced people. When I collected all information and combined it with logic, I was royally confused!

As it was destined, I ended up with PS3 - and I am super impressed!

I usually have MFD reference for FE on Mysore road. When I drive from Bangalore to Mysore with heavy traffic, I get a reading of above 20KMPL on the MFD. This is with AC and the speed depends on the traffic. I checked the same yesterday and this is what I got - Impressive!!

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-fejetta-r.jpg

Tyres are not super-silent. But compared to NCT5, noise is down by 80%. Being Michelin, I hope that the noise level stays that way and not increase over time.

So what if it is a size bigger? As long as it helps in every way and does not create any issues, it is excellent!!!




Third Oil-change service:

Got the third Oil-change service done at 41,500 Kms on the ODO. Following things were carried out:

1. Both the (front and the rear) left door actuators were replaced under warranty. With this, all the door actuators of my Jetta have been replaced. I hope not to have this problem again.

2. Driver side wiper-arm was replaced since it was slightly deformed. This happened due to trial / error options which were tried, to sort-out my earlier wiper issue. Even though the problem has been sorted-out after changing wiper-blade, I just got it replaced. This costed me about 3k.

3. Windshield washer tank was emptied and thoroughly cleaned - Fresh water + cleaner solution were added.

4. Front Brake pads were changed. Brake-oil was inspected and did not required to be changed.

5. Engine-oil / Oil-filter / Fuel-filter / Air-filter / Pollen-filter were all replaced as routine.

6. Battery health was checked and found to be good.

Approximately Rs.17,000 for the 3rd oil-change service including front brake-pads. Not bad for a Jetta!!

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-3rd-service-jetta-r.jpg



Now, the car is ready for the remap! Only problem is that the vendor selection is getting as tough as it can!! It is almost a tie between Pete's and Code6 - I am still doing my homework, keeping my fingers crossed!!!

Any suggestions to choose one of the poison, could be of immense help!!!!
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Old 24th August 2015, 20:50   #198
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May I know the factors which you have considered for remap and which caused the dilemma for vendor selection.
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Old 24th August 2015, 22:32   #199
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjithrnair View Post
May I know the factors which you have considered for remap and which caused the dilemma for vendor selection.
Link: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3781729


Simply put, priorities are as below: (In the same order of preference)

1. Safe / Reliable / verifiable map.

2. Previous Experience with Jetta 2.0 Tdi MT is a must.

3. Reviews / customer feedback, to backup claims made by the vendor.

4. Flashing through OBD port.

5. Good after-map support.

Pete's are not confirming / assuring that their map is from Malone Tuning. This adds to the dilemma.
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Old 25th August 2015, 08:50   #200
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Hi Chetan,

what is the normal life of a stock strut and how did you notice the deterioration in suspension quality?
And what would have been the price difference if you would have gone for stock replacement instead of Pete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Update @ 41K Kms on the ODO: Bilstein B6 - Done and dusted!

Suspension upgrade was carried out today: To be precise, only the damper struts were replaced and the stock springs were retained, as planned.

Once the stock struts were removed, extent of deterioration was easily noticeable.

Rear struts had lost 80% of its dampening effect (there was no oil leak) - when depressed fully, it was taking more than 45 secs to get back to it's normal position. This means that the car was virtually sitting on the springs, on uneven surface!! Front struts were relatively better with about 60% deterioration in its dampening effect.

Going by this, I would have had to replace stock struts any time - at the most, it would have run another 10K Kms. If I had delayed replacement, ride quality would have been compromised. This clearly shows the kind of roads I travel on. Even though I felt the problem with the suspension, I would never had known the extent of damage, had I not removed / replaced them.

After this, I drove the car for about 30Kms in-city. I could not find perceivable difference in stiffness wrt stock struts - Body roll has considerably reduced. I have to further check on the highway. At this point of time, I do not think tyre profile upgrade will be necessary - It is that good. Off-course, tyre hardness could be felt (Old tyres). But suspension related issues are ironed out.

Old struts: I was offered 2K for the old struts (only front ones can be used). Any suggestion will help.

Tyres: I had been to the Michelin dealer - Unfortunately, there was another set of bad news. 215/55R16 P3st's were not available / not in stock.

Then I casually inquired about 2011 manufactured PS3. I was told that it was manufactured in the second half of 2011 and was still being stored in Michelin Company stock-yard. Further, I was given full assurance about the quality of tyres and was offered 4 tyres for 40K, in exchange with my old rotten ones - Price includes fitment / balancing / alignment - Weights extra.

I thought since the tyres are stored in the Company stock-yard, proper care would have been taken and so, their should not be a problem. I took the offer and placed order - NCT5's will be replaced with 225/50R16 PS3's tomorrow.

@Akshay - If I had not felt the problem with suspension, I would have definitely changed the tyres first. Since the struts were to be changed any way, I opted for Bilstein - This upgrade was a gradual transition for me. It was an informed decision, based on SantoshBhat's input and also a couple of my other friends. Please do not mind.

Regards

Dheeraj
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Old 25th August 2015, 11:46   #201
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Link: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...ml#post3781729


Simply put, priorities are as below: (In the same order of preference)

1. Safe / Reliable / verifiable map.

2. Previous Experience with Jetta 2.0 Tdi MT is a must.

3. Reviews / customer feedback, to backup claims made by the vendor.

4. Flashing through OBD port.

5. Good after-map support.

Pete's are not confirming / assuring that their map is from Malone Tuning. This adds to the dilemma.

Not sure on what we mean by Safe / Reliable map here and whether you will get satisfied with such a map is something you need to experience post remap and comment .

Code6 has their main workshop in Bangalore and provide good after-map support , there are a few BHPians including me who can vouch for their service. I am not sure on the OBD2 port flashing part at first instance itself , but again it will be common across vendors , If Petes can do it , then Code6 will also be able to do that without doubt .

Thanks,
Ranjith
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Old 25th August 2015, 12:20   #202
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dhir_d View Post
what is the normal life of a stock strut
Hi Dheeraj,

IFAIK, stock struts like any other suspension related parts, are warranted for 10,000 Kms or 6 Months which-ever is earlier. Life depends primarily on the way we drive, our usual load and the roads we drive on.

Stock struts are not heavy-duty. Therefore they deteriorate faster if the car is constantly used with load (as a family car). Jetta's struts are good - they last for 40k - 50k Kms if used normally. It may last longer if the car is driven solo, majority of the time.

IMO, for regular mixed-load usage on good+bad roads, using it for anything over 30k Kms, will be a compromise. This is just my opinion - Which has taken shape, after seeing both sides of the coin.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dhir_d View Post
how did you notice the deterioration in suspension quality?
Car suspension has two parts: 1. Spring 2. Damper (Struts). Spring absorbs road undulations. Dampeners limit oscillations and subdues it.

Once the struts weaken, car will pitch more and body roll can be experienced even while performing simple overtakes / lane change. In simple terms, ride will not be as flat and will force us to cut-speed on highways. This magnifies with load.

It is recommended to change all 4 struts as a set, to avoid rocking effect.




Quote:
Originally Posted by dhir_d View Post
what would have been the price difference if you would have gone for stock replacement instead of Pete.
I did not inquire the rates of the stock struts. But I think Bilstein-B6 will be about 30k more expensive, than the stock struts. IMHO, Difference in price will more than makeup in terms of performance & longevity.
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Old 25th August 2015, 13:19   #203
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjithrnair View Post
Not sure on what we mean by Safe / Reliable map here and whether you will get satisfied with such a map is something you need to experience post remap and comment .

Code6 has their main workshop in Bangalore and provide good after-map support , there are a few BHPians including me who can vouch for their service. I am not sure on the OBD2 port flashing part at first instance itself , but again it will be common across vendors , If Petes can do it , then Code6 will also be able to do that without doubt .
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Pete's uses Custom Code maps for Petrol engines and Diesel-inside maps for Diesel engine (as per Shibin). Diesel-inside has evolved to Malone tuning (Link:http://www.malonetuning.com/). But this is not mentioned on Pete's website. Melone tuning have a decent reviews on the net: http://www.eurodrivers.ca/forums/sho...e-tune-for-TDI.

From what I have understood: These European master-tuners use road / load simulators, continuously monitor temperature / pressure of the engine parts and tune accordingly. This increases engine reliability. Most of these tuners have long history - long enough to verify. Pete's use this kind of map as a base and tweak to suit Indian conditions. Extensive customization is not possible - But I doubt if it is necessary at all, for a stage-1 map. I agree that there can be 5% difference wrt performance from car to car, with the same map. But, this is the same as how things were with the stock car, when it was delivered.

When it comes to Code6, problem is lack of verifiable results. They are knowledgeable and excellent in there work. But to begin with, the base map they use (Electro-tune) is non-verifiable. There-fore we are dependent on their knowledge both as tuners and automotive engineers. I am not sure if the map developed is based on active simulators and feedback.

This gets to the actual implementation: Code6 is totally hassle-free with this. half-a-day work through the OBD. We also get to see the action which is interesting for us enthusiasts.

Pete's is the other way in this case. 4-5 days the car needs to be left at their workshop. ECU is then taken to Cochin for flashing. A test drive is all we can do after the ECU is brought back to Bangalore and re-fitted. Leaving the car in a garage (unknown / un-attended) for those-many days, itself is a worry.
I am also inclined towards Code6 at this point of time. Their implementation is simple and hassle-free.

But I have not been able to get references from any of their remapped Jetta 2.0 Tdi owners. There does not seem to be any in Bangalore.

Kindly let me know if you find anyone, who has experience with their remap for Jetta 2.0 Tdi.
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Old 25th August 2015, 13:33   #204
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Chethan, you can also consider Tune-O-Tronics. They do have a reputable experience of remapping VAG cars and many members are happy with them. Since they are based in Bangalore, you can take a day or two off, sit with them and get a map according to your needs. Not to mention the lifetime free map tweaks!
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Old 25th August 2015, 13:38   #205
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

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Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Chethan, you can also consider Tune-O-Tronics. They do have a reputable experience of remapping VAG cars and many members are happy with them. Since they are based in Bangalore, you can take a day or two off, sit with them and get a map according to your needs. Not to mention the lifetime free map tweaks!
Thanks!

I had not tried them since their Implementation is same as Pete's. If you say that they have experience on VAG cars, I will try them too. But I would prefer experience with 2.0Tdi engines to 1.6Tdi.
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Old 25th August 2015, 13:45   #206
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Thanks!

I had not tried them since their Implementation is same as Pete's. If you say that they have experience on VAG cars, I will try them too. But I would prefer experience with 2.0Tdi engines to 1.6Tdi.
They have remapped member Lamborghini's Laura 2.0 and also Kryptonite's Laura to Stage 2 with part upgrades. Link below.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/long-t...-update-2.html (2012 Skoda Laura L&K TDi - Remapped by Tune-O-Tronics. 45,000 Kms Update)

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...one-right.html

As a matter of fact, i am also in the process of contacting them for the 180-185bhp tune.

Rohan
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Old 25th August 2015, 14:08   #207
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Thanks!

I had not tried them since their Implementation is same as Pete's. If you say that they have experience on VAG cars, I will try them too. But I would prefer experience with 2.0Tdi engines to 1.6Tdi.
Petes require you send the ECU to cochin right? TOT will do it in your home or at their center in Bangalore . That is an advantage
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Old 25th August 2015, 17:27   #208
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Default Re: Update @ 600 Kms with Bilstein & PS3

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Michelin Pilot Sport 3 - 225/50ZR16 92W: What can I say? Suddenly, Jetta has grown one segment higher! Car feels and grips so good.
Hi Chethan, can you post a few pictures of the 225 PS3s? It would be great to have an idea of how the tires sit on the stock alloys.
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Old 26th August 2015, 12:05   #209
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

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Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Hi Chethan, can you post a few pictures of the 225 PS3s? It would be great to have an idea of how the tires sit on the stock alloys.
Hi Graaja, Below pics are with 33 Psi Nitrogen. At some wheel position, lip is a bit pronounced. This could be more pronounced during cornering - If the road is broken, side-wall may be exposed? Even though 6.5J is within spec for a 225/50, 7J would be Ideal IMHO. Stock RIMs are too good to part with..

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0077r.jpg

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0078r.jpg

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0079r.jpg

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0080r.jpg

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0081r.jpg

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0082r.jpg

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0083r.jpg

VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-imag0084r.jpg



Stock RIM size is 6.5J with Offset 50.
IMO, RIM size of 7J with an offset of 45 would be ideal.
VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-rim-upgrade.jpg




Quote:
Originally Posted by RohanDheman View Post
They have remapped member Lamborghini's Laura 2.0 and also Kryptonite's Laura to Stage 2 with part upgrades.

As a matter of fact, i am also in the process of contacting them for the 180-185bhp tune.

Rohan
My only worry about TOT remap is excessive smoke. A bit more research is required on this.

Lamborghini has faced this issue - Not sure if it was sorted out.
Kryptonite's application is very different - Not sure if he is interested in longevity.

As you are also in the lookout, kindly update your findings - It will be of great help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sagarpadaki View Post
Petes require you send the ECU to cochin right? TOT will do it in your home or at their center in Bangalore . That is an advantage
Thanks!

I had a discussion with Vivek yesterday. Looks good.
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Old 27th August 2015, 06:56   #210
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

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Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Pete's are not confirming / assuring that their map is from Malone Tuning. This adds to the dilemma.
Pete's has tie ups with 4 different tuners for Diesel engines. The remaps from these tuners are used according to the engine. For the Jetta 2.0 TDI he uses Diesel Inside / Malone.
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