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Old 27th August 2015, 07:13   #211
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Pete's has tie ups with 4 different tuners for Diesel engines. The remaps from these tuners are used according to the engine. For the Jetta 2.0 TDI he uses Diesel Inside / Malone.
Can you please share your take on Pete's remap? How do you compare Pete's Remap with Code6 & TOT.

Any input will help. Thanks in advance!
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Old 27th August 2015, 09:23   #212
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

I guess you are aware that whatever remap you do, there will be an additional degree of unreliability that creeps into your car either by way of electrical or mechanical product failure or other performance related issue. But that is a trade off for the additional power that you get to relish. The Jetta's chassis can certainly handle a lot more power than it does in stock trim so it's okay to add more power from that perspective.

1. Pete's tuning does not customise the performance remap of your car to the extent that a TOT or Code6 does. They have a fairly large client base and will not be able to give you the attention that a TOT or Code 6 can. So you will not be able to do a customised remap according to your personal preferences if that is what you need.

2. They have a lot of experience with VW 2.0 TDI engines but only have standard remaps for stage 1, 2 and 3.

3. Expect a reasonable amount of aftermarket support as they are a bit more established than the other players.

4. Be aware, that cars fitted with Pete's remaps have had serious reliability issues as have those with TOT or Code 6.

5. TOT or Code 6 would be a good option to Pete's as they appear to be more eager to establish themselves and so will give you more time and attention which would also translate to a better product.

6. Regardless of what any tuner indicates of their remap being within manufacturer limits, there will still be some unreliability/ mechanical/ electrical failure that creeps in after your remap. It's a question of your luck as to what extent the remap will affect your car. Hopefully, it will only be something minor which you can live with. If you're willing to accept that risk, jump right in.

All the best !
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Old 27th August 2015, 14:53   #213
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Hello Chethan,,

Lovely write up and details, I have fallen for a 2013 MY CL, the car is currently bone stock,

I read somewhere that you swapped your stock 'atlantas' to 'borbets', can you post a pic of the new alloys, I suppose they are on 225/50's. Ans, is the stock alloys for sale by chance?

Finally, did you change the headlamp bulbs, if so, which ones?

I am probably looking forward to upgrading the front headlight bulbs and possibly alloys / wheels sooner than later.
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Old 27th August 2015, 15:21   #214
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
I guess you are aware that whatever remap you do, there will be an additional degree of unreliability that creeps into your car either by way of electrical or mechanical product failure or other performance related issue. But that is a trade off for the additional power that you get to relish. The Jetta's chassis can certainly handle a lot more power than it does in stock trim so it's okay to add more power from that perspective.
Thanks for your time. Your views are extremely useful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
1. Pete's tuning does not customise the performance remap of your car to the extent that a TOT or Code6 does. They have a fairly large client base and will not be able to give you the attention that a TOT or Code 6 can. So you will not be able to do a customised remap according to your personal preferences if that is what you need.

2. They have a lot of experience with VW 2.0 TDI engines but only have standard remaps for stage 1, 2 and 3.

3. Expect a reasonable amount of aftermarket support as they are a bit more established than the other players.
This is fare enough. Can this also mean that Pete's have a ready product which does not require customization for general usage? At-least for a stage-1 remap where hardware changes are not required? I am asking this since stage-1 is just the entry level..

My requirements are fairly simple. I am not looking for extensive customization. Standard maps should do, as long as it works seamlessly with local conditions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
4. Be aware, that cars fitted with Pete's remaps have had serious reliability issues as have those with TOT or Code 6.
I agree. Risk is uniform across products, when it comes to the remap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
5. TOT or Code 6 would be a good option to Pete's as they appear to be more eager to establish themselves and so will give you more time and attention which would also translate to a better product.
Establishing themselves in the market is fine - Does that mean that they will use my car for testing the product? Because the product here is the software which cannot be defined, but can only be verified through results. I am unable to find proper reviews (Code6 & TOT) which would fall in-line with my type of usage (normal usage).


In general, looks like a direct pick between experience and innovation. Is it? (Eg: Code6 has tools to flash EEPROM through OBD2)




I had one basic question: When we look at just the concept / technology behind the map, which one is better? Code6 / TOT / Malone (Pete's).

I am asking this is because of the following reasons:

1. TOT blanks EGR by default / Code6 leaves the option to Customer / Malone uses EGR during cold starts and there-after blanks it.

"EGR delete" itself has mixed opinion.

2. Malone-Tunes claims to have fixed a few factory flaws in their remap - Link: http://www.malonetuning.com/custom-t...yths-and-facts

3. Since remap can play with lot of parameters, coders knowledge and experience plays an important role - It is not just some software tweak - Basic technic to obtain higher power can vary.


This is just my understanding - Please correct me if I am wrong.

Thanks in advance!
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Old 27th August 2015, 16:45   #215
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebo View Post
Hello Chethan,,

Lovely write up and details, I have fallen for a 2013 MY CL, the car is currently bone stock,

I read somewhere that you swapped your stock 'atlantas' to 'borbets', can you post a pic of the new alloys, I suppose they are on 225/50's. Ans, is the stock alloys for sale by chance?

Finally, did you change the headlamp bulbs, if so, which ones?

I am probably looking forward to upgrading the front headlight bulbs and possibly alloys / wheels sooner than later.
Thanks!

Go for it. All the best!

I still have Atlantas on the car.


I have changed the bulbs to Philips Extreme Vision. Stock speck - They are good.
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Old 27th August 2015, 18:55   #216
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Can this also mean that Pete's have a ready product which does not require customization for general usage? At-least for a stage-1 remap where hardware changes are not required?
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Establishing themselves in the market is fine - Does that mean that they will use my car for testing the product?
In a manner of speaking, yes. Not directly though, but since they are heavily into customisations, errors made in one car will not be carried into another car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
In general, looks like a direct pick between experience and innovation. Is it? (Eg: Code6 has tools to flash EEPROM through OBD2)
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post

I had one basic question: When we look at just the concept / technology behind the map, which one is better? Code6 / TOT / Malone (Pete's).

I am asking this is because of the following reasons:

1. TOT blanks EGR by default / Code6 leaves the option to Customer / Malone uses EGR during cold starts and there-after blanks it.

"EGR delete" itself has mixed opinion.

2. Malone-Tunes claims to have fixed a few factory flaws in their remap - Link: http://www.malonetuning.com/custom-t...yths-and-facts

3. Since remap can play with lot of parameters, coders knowledge and experience plays an important role - It is not just some software tweak - Basic technic to obtain higher power can vary.
1. Don't read too much into any of these claims. EGR blanking has its positives and negatives too. So don't spend too much time analysing that. All tuners have their positives as well as their negatives and you will not see any of the websites mentioning their negatives. Does that mean that they do not have any negatives? Far from it.

2. As for Malone tuning fixing factory flaws, please don't read too much into that either. The number of hours that factories spend developing and testing products are far more than a tuner will ever do. Additionally, factories give you warranty for all parts of the engine so they would take a lot more care to see there aren't flaws. Tuners don't give you any warranty, just a sales pitch on their website.

3. Coders knowledge and expertise are difficult to ascertain. It is better not to go into analysing areas where you do not have accurate or reliable data. What you can depend on is the number of years of experience and use that as a yardstick. The rest is hearsay, and customer feedback posted on websites which cannot be entirely depended upon.

As you are interested in minimal interface with the tuner during coding, not into customised remapping and prefer a standard remap, Pete's seems to be the closest to meeting your requirements. If you are okay with removing your ECU and sending it to Cochin, then this appears to be the more reasonable option.
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Old 27th August 2015, 20:57   #217
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Arrow re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
3. Coders knowledge and expertise are difficult to ascertain. It is better not to go into analysing areas where you do not have accurate or reliable data. What you can depend on is the number of years of experience and use that as a yardstick. The rest is hearsay, and customer feedback posted on websites which cannot be entirely depended upon.
I am definitely not suspecting their knowledge - I do not even have the expertise to do so. I believe that they are good, to be where they are today. My regards / respect on all three parties are the same. In-fact, I would rate TOT & Code6 higher as they are both Master-Tuners.

As a prospective customer, I can only gauge their product based on market feedback. More-so, as it is related to software. But as of now, lack of verifiable results / reviews is the block.

If I use only experience as yardstick, there will be no match for Pete's. All my life, I had only heard about Pete's when it comes to any performance upgrades and I have heard only good things about them - Maybe, people were impressed since market did not provide any other options. But still, one can't take it away from Pete's. I had infact given an advance to Pete's for the remap, which they have returned back; as I said that I needed some more time to decide.

Therefore, to understand present options with an open mind, I was looking at other possible ways and means to assess products!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
As you are interested in minimal interface with the tuner during coding, not into customised remapping and prefer a standard remap, Pete's seems to be the closest to meeting your requirements. If you are okay with removing your ECU and sending it to Cochin, then this appears to be the more reasonable option.
Yes - I think this is it. I will wait for a couple of days and see if I can get any more information on TOT / Code6 and decide.

Thanks a ton!
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Old 29th August 2015, 19:45   #218
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Default re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!

Quote:

My requirements are fairly simple. I am not looking for extensive customization. Standard maps should do, as long as it works seamlessly with local conditions.
Hi, regarding your requirements, I think you should be dealing with tuners that provides support. ToT is equally good as CODE6 when it comes to tuning.+point with code6 is that they own a garage called BAY6, which you can avail an extra support. I personally had-really good experiences from both bay6 and code6.For new 1.5TDI in VAG , they are pioneers (Yes code6 developed their own maps for 1.5tdi engines, no tuner AFAIK is offering remap for that). Sajan of code6 himself owns a jetta AT tdi,a cruze and EVO X, all of them being mapped by him, i can vouch for his knowledge.In addition code6 provides unlimited flashes, so you can change back to stock, customise as per your needs.
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Old 30th August 2015, 20:57   #219
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Thumbs up VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Pete's remap - 184 bhp Power & 400 Nm of Torque!

At last, after a lot of deliberation, finalised remap with Pete's. Options were between Pete's / Code6 / TOT. Selection was primarily based on the following criteria:

1. Pete's experience with VW 2.0 Tdi remaps and reputation as an established / dependable company.

2. Pete's uses map from Malone-tuning for VW 2.0 TDI; These maps have good reviews and verifiable.

3. Remap offered by Pete's appeared like a finished product with fixed specification (time tested), unlike others which were heavily customised. As I am a common user with conservative mindset, I was rather discouraged by these excessive customisation option.

4. As this was my first remap and as I did not have previous experience with remaps, I was cautious and opted for the safest option available.

Map Specification:

Stock rating of Jetta 2.0 TDI is 138 bhp Power and 320 Nm of Torque at wheels.

Remap will boost it to 184 bhp Power and 400 Nm of Torque at wheels!
Name:  MaloneTuning options.jpg
Views: 1895
Size:  97.4 KB
Link: http://www.malonetuning.com/20l-cr-tdi
I expect this to be detuned to 177 bhp Power and 380 Nm of Torque at wheels, in order to meet our fuel and environmental conditions. I plan to dyno the car some-time after remap.

Courtesy: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=435348
VW Jetta 2.0 TDI HL MT - Now with Bilsteins and Pete's Remap!-tdi-club.jpg

Parameters altered during the Remap:

I was given to understand that basically fuel intake / turbo boost / fuel to air ratio / EGR valve timing, will be varied to obtain added power. Individual driving pattern will be acquired through ECU logs and referred during coding. I have given my requirements as follows:
  • Strong bottom end to enable lesser gear shifts.
  • 6th gear to pull from 1200 - 1300 RPM.

Note for AT users: Although AT uses the same MQ350 as in MT, AT gear boxes contain heaver clutch plates than MT. Therefore, AT can be tuned for a higher torque that the MT. But since torque is digitally limited to 350Nm by the DSG CPU, any remap will logically require the DSG software to be upgraded. This upgrade will enhance the torque limit as required. Otherwise, DSG will not synchronize with the engine torque delivery and can result in shift delays at higher torques.

Implementation: ECU is Tricore and anti-tune protected, manufactured by Bosch. These ECU’s contain special programming incorporating a 1024 Bit RSA signature to detect non-genuine software. A hash check algorithm checks the validity of the software being installed, meaning that this ECU type can permanently lock preventing the car from starting, especially after attempting to flash them over the OBD. To get around this stumbling block, the ECU is programmed on the bench, bypassing the anti-tune protection.

On bench flashing requires the ECU to be opened-up and the EEPROM be flashed directly. However only temporary connectors are used and soldering is NOT done. After the ECU is flashed on the bench for the first time, any further flashing can be done through the OBD.

Right now, car is parked at my portico; ECU alone was removed and taken for the remap. Hopefully, I will get back the ECU by Thursday. I should mention that the service extended by Shibin is excellent.

Care to be taken after remap:

1. Oil change Service schedule to be reduced to 12,000 Kms.
2. Air filter to be cleaned / changed every 6,000 Kms.
3. Frequent hard launches to be avoided.
4. Frequent / Extended WOT (wide open throttle) to be avoided.
5. Car to be driven gently, until the engine reaches operating temperature.
6. frequent short trips with a cold engine to be avoided.
7. Must: 30 secs idle at cold start and 60 secs idle before the engine is turned off.
8. Minimise RPM, to minimise wear and tear.

Following VCDS updates are planned after remap: (Free add-on service from Shibin)

03 - ABS/Brakes: (Assist high, XDS high, DSR high, BDW active)
09 - Central elect ( Anti-theft active, Headlight dimming inactive, Tear wiping active)
17 - Instruments (Staging active)
36 - Seat mem drvr (Easy entry active)
44 - Steering assist (Torque steer compensation active)
56 - Radio (Development test mode active)
77 - Telephone (Sort by first name, 3 button keypad active)
- Lane change indicator to be set to 5 blinks

Roof buttons numbers to be changed. (If possible)
Information - 008008655792436 - To be changed to 1800 102 0909
Service - 00800897378424 - To be changed to 1800 209 0909

Below are the links to some of the reviews:

Link: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=435348

Link: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=386360

Link: http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...Sportwagen-TDI

Recommended reads:

Link: http://www.chiptuning.com.au/egr_blanking_info/

Link: http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/...ing-you-money/

Link: http://www.tuneruniversity.com/blog/...for-your-buck/

I am planning to get Castrol SRF brake fluid for the Jetta.
Link: http://www.castrol.com/en_au/austral...rf-racing.html

Also, I found this "AFE Stage 2 Si Cold Air Intake with Pro Dry S Filter
" interesting - This is a direct OEM fitment and contains dry fabric based (oil-free) reusable filter. Any suggestion will help.

Link: http://www.parleysdieselperformance....l-tdi-51-81711

Link: https://parleysperformance-assets.s3..._Pro_Dry_S.pdf

Last edited by Aditya : 2nd September 2015 at 06:11. Reason: typo, spacing
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Old 30th August 2015, 21:32   #220
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Default Re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Pete's remap - 184 bhp Power & 400 Nm of Torque!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post

Stock rating of Jetta 2.0 TDI is 138 bhp Power and 320 Nm of Torque at wheels.

[b]Remap will boost it to 184 bhp Power and 400 Nm of Torque at wheels!
I dont think the stock Jetta 2.0 TDI is rated at 138 bhp at the wheel, AFAIK it is 138 bhp at the crank, please recheck! If true, your gains from the remap would be much higher!

Also, congratulations on the remap, its good to see more and more people opting for remaps in the country, stage 1- stage 2 remaps are the most trouble free upgrades one can buy for their cars, also keeping the car's inherent reliability intact.
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Old 30th August 2015, 23:11   #221
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Arrow Re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Pete's remap - 184 bhp Power & 400 Nm of Torque!

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Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
I dont think the stock Jetta 2.0 TDI is rated at 138 bhp at the wheel, AFAIK it is 138 bhp at the crank, please recheck! If true, your gains from the remap would be much higher!
All German cars are rated at wheels. After the remap, torque at crank will be 452 Nm.

If you look at the table in my post, Torque figure at crank is separately stated. All tuners (Code6 / TOT / Pete's) talk the same.

If you look at say Chevy Cruze, the specs are at Crank.
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Old 30th August 2015, 23:33   #222
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Default Re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Pete's remap - 184 bhp Power & 400 Nm of Torque!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post

Stock rating of Jetta 2.0 TDI is 138 bhp Power and 320 Nm of Torque at wheels.

[b]Remap will boost it to 184 bhp Power and 400 Nm of Torque at wheels!
that means 165WHP. And for making it OBD compatible, ECU needs to b opened up and soldered(Single time ). After that flashing is done through OBD
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Old 31st August 2015, 08:08   #223
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Arrow Re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Pete's remap - 184 bhp Power & 400 Nm of Torque!

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Originally Posted by tikku.dk View Post
that means 165WHP.
Yes. Wheel Horse Power is 0.85 times BHP. Torque figures mentioned are at wheels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tikku.dk View Post
And for making it OBD compatible, ECU needs to b opened up and soldered(Single time ). After that flashing is done through OBD
Now a days most tuners just probe required points and not solder. This was confirmed by Pete's also.

Please share if you have any other information to believe that the test points are actually soldered.

Last edited by Chethan B G : 31st August 2015 at 08:31.
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Old 31st August 2015, 11:54   #224
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Arrow Re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Pete's remap - 184 bhp Power & 400 Nm of Torque!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Stock rating of Jetta 2.0 TDI is 138 bhp Power and 320 Nm of Torque at wheels.

Remap will boost it to 184 bhp Power and 400 Nm of Torque at wheels!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 599gto View Post
I dont think the stock Jetta 2.0 TDI is rated at 138 bhp at the wheel, AFAIK it is 138 bhp at the crank, please recheck! If true, your gains from the remap would be much higher!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
All German cars are rated at wheels. After the remap, torque at crank will be 452 Nm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tikku.dk View Post
that means 165WHP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post
Yes. Wheel Horse Power is 0.85 times BHP. Torque figures mentioned are at wheels.
I would like to state this clearly for everybody's benefit:

Power: If the unit mentioned is BHP, it is the power measured at crank. If the unit mentioned is WHP, it is the power measured at the wheels.

Torque: AFAIK, Units (Nm / lb-ft) are independent of the position at which torque is measured; Therefore, the position (at the crank / at the wheel) is specified along with the value.


As I understand, stock Jetta 2.0Tdi power of 138bhp is rated at the crank and 320Nm is rated at the wheels.

Transmission loss between Crank and the wheel varies between cars. For a car with two wheel drive, transmission loss can vary between 10-15% depending on the configuration (FWD / RWD / MT / AT). For the Jetta MT, as it is FWD, transmission loss may be closer to 10%; But whatever factor is taken for the purpose of calculation, it can only be an approximation when one figure is derived from the other (transmission loss being a variable).

Also, we can achieve higher WHP by reducing the rotational mass in the drive-train; such as the wheels, tyres, brakes, clutch, flywheel, etc.

As I understand: Remap will boost the stock figures to 184 bhp Power at crank and 400 Nm of Torque at wheels

As I plan to dyno the car some-time after the remap, I will know the actual figure of both power and torque delivered at wheels. I will post the results once done.

Last edited by Chethan B G : 31st August 2015 at 12:20.
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Old 31st August 2015, 12:38   #225
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Default Re: VW Jetta 2.0 TDI Highline MT - Pete's remap - 184 bhp Power & 400 Nm of Torque!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chethan B G View Post

Now a days most tuners just probe required points and not solder. This was confirmed by Pete's also.

Please share if you have any other information to believe that the test points are actually soldered.
Yes you are right, it was back ago i saw ECU opened up and soldered. Now it just need a contact point
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