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Old 19th March 2014, 09:31   #76
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Default Re: BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home

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Originally Posted by sharadmumbai View Post

Also, not sure if the transmission breaking theory is correct as the wheels are locked up and the impact will cause skidding and wheels will not rotate and thus not sure how the transmission will break.

However, lets check with the BMW guys
The wheels will not be locked up. The P mode locking the transmission is nothing but a small pin which is engaged. Do you think that won't break if the car is hit from behind?

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Dear X1 owners, I had a query on the fuel consumption display options. In my car (pre-facelift), the instantaneous consumption is indicated by the needle in the speedometer console. For average fuel consumption, it displays the average from the time it was reset, which I normally do when I fill the tank. Is there a possibility to display the average for a trip. I dont think it is possible as there is only a single trip meter (no Trip A and Trip B). Just wanted to know if it is different in the later models and if this feature exists.
That is possible only in idrive itself I think. Unless the one from your music system and the one in the instrument cluster when you move the toggle on the indicator switch is different.

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Originally Posted by sunny1974 View Post
There is no straining for brakes etc at all in d mode with brake pressed. period. Discussed clearly with the BMW engineer. You can keep the brake pressed on the red light ,or keep it in N mode with foot off brake or on. Or use a handbrake but never keep it on P because if another car hits you accidentally on a redlight your transmission will take a hot and may get damaged. If you are on a brake you are safe. even N is safer as your car will roll forward and lessen the impact.
Yes the brakes are strained, will explain below.

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Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
Correct. There is no straining of engine, brakes and/or extra fuel consumption when at standstill and brakes pressed in an auto. The torque converter disengages the clutches. The creep in an auto is because the minute you move your foot off the brake pedal, the torque converter engages the clutches again and the engine idle speed is enough to cause creep. Observe the rpm indicator in different modes i.e. when brakes are pressed, when in N or in P. It will be at the same rpm!!!

P only when 'parked', not in traffic. Various reasons, including and especially a rear end. If needed, use 'N' with handbrake.
I don't know what you mean torque converter engaging. That is N mode. I've heard of torque conveters locking up, but not disengaging unless in N mode or P mode. You will feel a slight vibration in D mode with brakes engaged, move the shifter to N and it will go away. The brakes do get strained, and it heats up the gearbox.
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Old 19th March 2014, 10:19   #77
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Default Re: BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home

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That is possible only in idrive itself I think. Unless the one from your music system and the one in the instrument cluster when you move the toggle on the indicator switch is different.
I guess you are right. The display values in the music system and the instrument cluster are same. Was wondering if there was any update in the software in newer models where this was included.
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Old 19th March 2014, 11:26   #78
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Default Re: BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home

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Yes the brakes are strained, will explain below.

I don't know what you mean torque converter engaging. That is N mode. I've heard of torque conveters locking up, but not disengaging unless in N mode or P mode. You will feel a slight vibration in D mode with brakes engaged, move the shifter to N and it will go away. The brakes do get strained, and it heats up the gearbox.
I meant the torque converter will disengage when in N with the brakes held and standstill or in P. I do not agree with any brake or engine straining.

I have driven a Civic AT for several years (holding the brakes at a red signal) and after more than 35k km, I did not need to change the brake pads. So no brake straining. Further I tried all modes for a month each time to see if the FE or idle RPM would vary, but nil difference. So there was no issue of engine straining either.

Start / stop traffic will heat up the transmission anyway but not for the reasons stated by you. The AT fluid loses its abilities very quickly due to heat. In cooler climates it does not heat up and therefore will have a longer life. In our tropical conditions, it heats up more. In traffic as compared to normal running, there is lower airflow so the heat is not able to dissipate.

I would therefore suggest anybody using an AT (torque converter based) in Indian traffic and heat conditions to change the AT fluid every 2-3 years, well in advance of the recommended intervals.
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Old 19th March 2014, 19:20   #79
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Default Re: BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home

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Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
I meant the torque converter will disengage when in N with the brakes held and standstill or in P. I do not agree with any brake or engine straining.

I have driven a Civic AT for several years (holding the brakes at a red signal) and after more than 35k km, I did not need to change the brake pads. So no brake straining. Further I tried all modes for a month each time to see if the FE or idle RPM would vary, but nil difference. So there was no issue of engine straining either.

Start / stop traffic will heat up the transmission anyway but not for the reasons stated by you. The AT fluid loses its abilities very quickly due to heat. In cooler climates it does not heat up and therefore will have a longer life. In our tropical conditions, it heats up more. In traffic as compared to normal running, there is lower airflow so the heat is not able to dissipate.

I would therefore suggest anybody using an AT (torque converter based) in Indian traffic and heat conditions to change the AT fluid every 2-3 years, well in advance of the recommended intervals.
EDIT - Rephrasing my full post. You said when you lift your foot of the brakes the torque converter will engage and the idle rpm will cause the car to creep forward. My point was that no torque converter disengages when you are on the brakes. It is always engaged when you are in D. And even though it is a fluid coupling when you are in D there is some friction which causes it to heat up. Now the transmission may not fail, but the noise and vibration will definitely increase after a while if you spend a lot of time in D at a stop.

I'm not asking you to change your driving style. But telling other people it is ok to continuously stay in D when at a stop is incorrect. There is a long discussion about this in the automatic vs manual transmission thread, perhaps you would like to add your views there.

Last edited by Akshay1234 : 19th March 2014 at 19:39.
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Old 20th March 2014, 00:22   #80
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Default Re: BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home

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The wheels will not be locked up. The P mode locking the transmission is nothing but a small pin which is engaged. Do you think that won't break if the car is hit from behind?
I'm not even a layman, let alone an expert in this field. However, what i found from the manual clearly states that the wheels will be locked up when P mode is selected. So Isn't my inference about skidding correct?

BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home-20140320_000352.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by sandeep108
.......... Start / stop traffic will heat up the transmission anyway but not for the reasons stated by you. The AT fluid loses its abilities very quickly due to heat. In cooler climates it does not heat up and therefore will have a longer life. In our tropical conditions, it heats up more. In traffic as compared to normal running, there is lower airflow so the heat is not able to dissipate.
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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
.......... Now the transmission may not fail, but the noise and vibration will definitely increase after a while if you spend a lot of time in D at a stop.
This is also confusing for me. Its seems logical that creeping in D mode and preventing it by keeping the brake pedal should strain the brakes. But then why has BMW made this Auto Start Stop functionality and also offer 5 year warranty through BSI if this will lead to transmission failure/ brake pads issue earlier than later!!!
If you try to shift to N mode after Auto Start Stop Stop stops the engine, the engine fires up immediately. But same doesn't happen if you shift to P mode and take your foot off the brakes. When the Light turns green, just shift to D mode after pressing the brake, the engine just fires up automatically!!!

I can see many conflicting views. Let me check with BMW team and see that they have to say on this subject.

Last edited by sharadmumbai : 20th March 2014 at 00:27.
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Old 20th March 2014, 11:07   #81
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I should have re-phrased it better, the clutches disengage. You are right, the torque converter is obviously permanent and cannot 'disengage'.

From how torque converters work: A torque converter is a type of fluid coupling, which allows the engine to spin somewhat independently of the transmission. If the engine is turning slowly, such as when the car is idling at a stoplight, the amount of torque passed through the torque converter is very small, so keeping the car still requires only a light pressure on the brake pedal.

I am just pointing out that people saying keeping the AT in D and using the brakes at stop/start traffic causing engine straining and/or brake pad wear are quite wrong in my opinion, it just does not happen. There however may be heat build-up in the AT. So that should be the issue, not engine straining, FE or brake pad wear. Obviously at long stops holding it in D with brakes pressed is not advisable both from leg muscle point of view or otherwise, it may be better to shift to N and use the parking brake.

Many of the high end sedans anyway have auto hold/auto parking brake application, with ATs and surely the engineers know what they are doing and such features will not result in engine straining or brake pad wear.

I repeat - the biggest problem with ATs in India is heat which affects the AT fluid and I would suggest that AT fluid be inspected/replaced at more frequent intervals for AT long life.

Last edited by sandeep108 : 20th March 2014 at 11:09.
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Old 20th March 2014, 22:54   #82
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Default Re: BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home

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Originally Posted by sharadmumbai View Post
I'm not even a layman, let alone an expert in this field. However, what i found from the manual clearly states that the wheels will be locked up when P mode is selected. So Isn't my inference about skidding correct?

Attachment 1221767
This is also confusing for me. Its seems logical that creeping in D mode and preventing it by keeping the brake pedal should strain the brakes. But then why has BMW made this Auto Start Stop functionality and also offer 5 year warranty through BSI if this will lead to transmission failure/ brake pads issue earlier than later!!!
If you try to shift to N mode after Auto Start Stop Stop stops the engine, the engine fires up immediately. But same doesn't happen if you shift to P mode and take your foot off the brakes. When the Light turns green, just shift to D mode after pressing the brake, the engine just fires up automatically!!!

I can see many conflicting views. Let me check with BMW team and see that they have to say on this subject.
My friend I am not disputing what you say about the wheels locking up. All I am saying is that the thing locking up the wheels is in the transmission, and it is a small pin which is likely to get damaged with anything more than a fender bender when the pin is engaged.

With auto start stop there is obviously no strain on the transmission or engine even if left in D mode since the engine goes off. When the engine is off it is not supplying any torque to the torque converter, so even if it is in D mode it is irrelevant. I have found the auto start stop continues working in N mode, but you have to keep your foot on the brake pedal, otherwise the engine comes on.

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Originally Posted by sandeep108 View Post
I should have re-phrased it better, the clutches disengage. You are right, the torque converter is obviously permanent and cannot 'disengage

I am just pointing out that people saying keeping the AT in D and using the brakes at stop/start traffic causing engine straining and/or brake pad wear are quite wrong in my opinion, it just does not happen. There however may be heat build-up in the AT. So that should be the issue, not engine straining, FE or brake pad wear. Obviously at long stops holding it in D with brakes pressed is not advisable both from leg muscle point of view or otherwise, it may be better to shift to N and use the parking brake.

Many of the high end sedans anyway have auto hold/auto parking brake application, with ATs and surely the engineers know what they are doing and such features will not result in engine straining or brake pad wear.

I repeat - the biggest problem with ATs in India is heat which affects the AT fluid and I would suggest that AT fluid be inspected/replaced at more frequent intervals for AT long life.
Now your definition is spot on.

Of course it will strain the engine. In a manual if you release the clutch a bit without touching the accelerator, while keeping your foot on the brake don't you feel an engine vibration? Maybe in an auto due to the torque converter the engine is not straining as much, but there is certainly more vibration and load on the engine. After a while there will be a distinct difference between holding the brakes in D mode and N mode in terms of vibration and noise. Its possible you haven't experienced it in your Civic, but I have seen many autos with issues like this.

In torque converter cars I find it find to hold it in D upto 30 seconds, and in DSGs upto about 10 seconds after which I switch to N.

The high end cars with auto hold are not meant for Indian conditions, they are meant for short signals in foreign countries which anyway do not have as bad stop go traffic as India or as many signals. It would be interesting to see data on cars with auto hold as to how their transmissions hold up.

Anyway I've made my point, it is up to you guys to take it into consideration.
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Old 20th March 2014, 23:34   #83
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Default Re: BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home

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My friend I am not disputing what you say about the wheels locking up. All I am saying is that the thing locking up the wheels is in the transmission, and it is a small pin which is likely to get damaged with anything more than a fender bender when the pin is engaged.


In torque converter cars I find it find to hold it in D upto 30 seconds, and in DSGs upto about 10 seconds after which I switch to N.
Now this is much clearer now.
Now to keep the things simple, I'm shifting to N on the traffic light and manually shutting off the engine if the expected wait time is more than 25-30 seconds else D with brake pedal !!!!!!

Meanwhile my package of 2 BMW logos has arrived from China today. The logo is made of very good quality plastic and its look quite good. I had ordered two as I wanted to have a spare.

Name:  20140320_230011.jpg
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Size:  224.0 KB BMW X1 sDrive20D - Joy for my Home-20140320_230037.jpg

There is a thin anti scratch film on top of the logo hence its a little hazy.

I immediately went down and put it in the hood. It fitted perfectly. Since the light in the basement was low, so couldn't take pictures but it looks extremely good. The only issue now are the scratches.
Any suggestions on how to deal with them?
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Old 21st March 2014, 10:25   #84
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Now this is much clearer now.
Now to keep the things simple, I'm shifting to N on the traffic light and manually shutting off the engine if the expected wait time is more than 25-30 seconds else D with brake pedal !!!!!!

Meanwhile my package of 2 BMW logos has arrived from China today. The logo is made of very good quality plastic and its look quite good. I had ordered two as I wanted to have a spare.

Attachment 1222045 Attachment 1222046

There is a thin anti scratch film on top of the logo hence its a little hazy.

I immediately went down and put it in the hood. It fitted perfectly. Since the light in the basement was low, so couldn't take pictures but it looks extremely good. The only issue now are the scratches.
Any suggestions on how to deal with them?
No need to put your engine off manually or any such thing. Personally in all the cars I have used with this start stop barely any fuel is saved. I find it more convenient to leave it off. But if you do leave start stop on, when the engine shuts down just keep your foot on the brake and move the gear level into N. And keep your foot on the brake till you move back into D when you need to go.

The logo looks good. Makes sense if people steal the original.

As for the scratches, get it touched up by BMW. I don't see any point in going in for a full repaint of the hood.
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Old 21st March 2014, 10:39   #85
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Meanwhile my package of 2 BMW logos has arrived from China today. The logo is made of very good quality plastic and its look quite good. I had ordered two as I wanted to have a spare.
I think these should be available at many auto markets now in major cities. But yes they are a very good alternative to the originals.
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Old 13th January 2015, 19:53   #86
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The discussion on X1s seems to have died out an year ago. . Does any one know where to source anti theft nuts for X1s in and around Pune ( alternatively would any anti-theft nut fit the X1)

Regs
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Old 14th January 2015, 06:30   #87
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The discussion on X1s seems to have died out an year ago. . Does any one know where to source anti theft nuts for X1s in and around Pune ( alternatively would any anti-theft nut fit the X1)

Regs
The BMW Dealership should have it, though they may charge a bomb. Alternatively Try ebay.com, autowin.eu, and other online International BMW Dealers for the Genuine Part. One such is Prestige BMW of Ramsey, NJ, USA who will ship the product. For their contact details check my X1 Thread which isn't dead as yet!
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Old 15th January 2015, 09:12   #88
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You must get the following-

1. Mc gard Anti theft nuts as they will give you a peace of mind.

2. A air pump is essential for RFT tyres. get a manual or electric one. I use a manual one as the chances of trouble are much less regarding malfunction wires etc and battery load.

3. Etch the side rearview mirrors asap as they will get robbed sooner or later. They cost upwards of 65 K. only the inside glass pieces. Etching is a DIY . I can provide you the number of a Mumbai guy who will mail you the stickers and etc. will cost you less than 1k

4. Buy a accurate pressure gauge.

5. I ll post pictures later for how to add a reverse camera with GPS which can be fitted neatly and similar to an oem without cutting any wires or voiding warranty.

6. Boot mat im looking for .

Useful information Sunny. Can you please send the details of the Person who provides the stickers for Etching and also any idea on a Reverse Cam with GPS that can be fitted onto Merc E Class.
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Old 19th January 2015, 10:03   #89
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Mod Note : There are several spelling & grammatical errors in your posts. This negatively affects the forum experience for other readers.

Kindly ensure that you proof-read your posts prior to submission. Also, it would be a good idea to use spell-checkers.


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Useful information Sunny. Can you please send the details of the Person who provides the stickers for Etching and also any idea on a Reverse Cam with GPS that can be fitted onto Merc E Class.
9221059050 for etching. and car rats, was told during service that rats visit the beamer Get a Garmen lm2565 with Bluetooth reverse camera for your Merc. That way, don't need to cut wires apart from attaching to the reverse light one which may need a trigger with relay. Procedure explained online. Good luck.

Issues with my X1 at 20000 km - suspension stabilizers changed as they were leaking (worn out). Cost 3--4k per side.

Battery Changed after 23000 kms and 2 years 9 months after the car wouldn't start one day suddenly. Wasn't kept home for any long time. Always have a weekly long 50 km each way golf trip every week to charge the battery. Was diagnosed and checked if car was running enough to charge battery. Battery charging tried overnight and decided that battery was gone. Cost 22k

ERG valve changed at 25000 kms approx. after car stopped suddenly with loss of power while driving (after driving 2 km) and then restarted normally and drove good. Diagnosis with software revealed this malfunction and the part was ordered and changed. Kept driving the car as it was a noncritical malfunction though could be repeated. Erg valve recycled polluted engine air to make it cleaner. cost 15k

All was done under BSI so did not need to pay anything for all this.
these are all part costs and the actual complete repair costs run much higher as they include testing etc. BSI is turing out to be quite useful. though the feeling that a well driven car (as per the technician when he saw brake wear patterns and engine oil intervals) on good roads can also give such niggling troubles is not too great.

Last edited by GTO : 20th January 2015 at 12:51.
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Old 18th February 2017, 15:29   #90
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I'm planning to get my next service done for my 2012 X1 sDrive 20D at an independent garage. Can anyone confirm the specification of the oil needed. He said he uses LL-01 specification. Is this correct or is it LL-04?
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