BUSA's Review : Civic AT(Paddle) and MT Test Driven

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by ST7677

My shopping list would be something like below. Request BHPians to guide me to best places (and approx cost) to get these done in Bangalore...

1. Putting Stanley Leather Upholstry (Dealer quotes starting from 35k)
2. Putting Sunfilm. Thinking of VKool for front and LLumar, etc for sides and rear
3. Subwoofer & amp
4. Body mods - front/rear bumper, side skirts, boot spoiler
5. Philips Crystal Vision Halogen Headlamps
6. K&N filter
7. Teflon coating
8. Body cover


Am I missing something?

Hmmm... if it was me that had that money, I would definitely try for 16" better alloys and 205 rubber, keeping OD same. If I had to, I would ditch the skirts/spoiler (why add weight) and sub. (I like clean natural audio, not thumping boomy bass). In any case, just the note of the iVtec in full flow from 3,500 - 6,500 rpm is enough for me.

Get the leather done from dealer, less hassles and difference may not be more than 5k.

Edit: It would be advisable to get the dealer to do the alloys/rubber if possible, it would protect your warranty.

[ST7677]

Dealer does not do alloys and has also told me that if I go for >15" wheels than my warrenty would be void!

Moreover the orginal Honda Alloys will go waste, if I go for new alloys.

I was looking at Modulo (?) body kit available through Honda, looks quiet goon, but it sounded very expensive...

Front Under Spoiler - 14559
Rear Under Spoiler - 14559
Side Under Spoiler - 16989
Boot Spoiler - 15773

Total = 62000 approx... (which I think should be half outside)

I want to know my options outside, from what I discussed with the dealer most accessories seemed like rip off.
I would get stuff from dealer if it is say 15% extra, beyond that I would want to look outside.

[ajmat]

Originally Posted by ST7677

Dealer does not do alloys and has also told me that if I go for >15" wheels than my warrenty would be void!
.

what would go wrong anyway ?

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by ajmat

what would go wrong anyway ?

Maybe nothing but if something related to suspension, axles, etc. does, you will have to pay for it, even if the alloys did not do anything.

[wackoid]

Had the same discussion with the dealer here for NHC Vtec regarding rim size - they say that warranty will be null and void if the buyer increases the rim size. When you ask them why, all they can say that's what Honda gives in its manual - no warranty if rim size is increased or if the car is to be used as cab. No other explanation. They even show the purported honda "manual" if one seems skeptical. Go figure ... !

Only thing they say allowed is wider rubber till 20 mm more ...

I would think the same would hold for the civic.

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by wackoid

Had the same discussion with the dealer here for NHC Vtec regarding rim size - they say that warranty will be null and void if the buyer increases the rim size. When you ask them why, all they can say that's what Honda gives in its manual - no warranty if rim size is increased or if the car is to be used as cab. No other explanation. They even show the purported honda "manual" if one seems skeptical. Go figure ... !

Only thing they say allowed is wider rubber till 20 mm more ...

I would think the same would hold for the civic.

Well, if one actually examines the technical aspects of changing rim, tire size, aspect ration and outer diamter, it is clear that if not done properly any change can be damaging to the car and suspension / steering components. In my ohc I wanted to change to 14"/185, but my tire guy was sort of hesitant. He finally admitted that on load, there was minor chance of the tire hitting the well on bumps and one of his other customers had complained. He was quite happy to change to 14"/175 like vtec, but not 185, but again conveyed that it might be a bumpier ride due to lower aspect.

So unless engineered for upsize, changing rim size/aspect ratio may not be appropriate for suspension in India. Abroad, with better, less bumpy roads, may not matter so much. Perhaps compromise may be to use 205 instead of 195 std. on same rims.

Edit: Also remember wider rubber will affect FE.

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by ST7677

Dealer does not do alloys and has also told me that if I go for >15" wheels than my warrenty would be void!

Moreover the orginal Honda Alloys will go waste, if I go for new alloys.

IMHO ST you are better off with std. If you have opted for AT, then enjoy smooth, FE ride. If you had opted for MT and wanted to corner/drive hard, then only worthwhile to upsize rims/tires.

[BUSA]

Dealer does not do alloys and has also told me that if I go for >15" wheels than my warrenty would be void!

The Civic outside comes with 205/55/16, http://www.honda.net.my/models/newcivic/index.html wheras the one in India comes with 195/65/15, however the car is made for 205/55/16 and when they get it in India they dont adjust the chassis or anything instead they get the nearest perfect downsize of the tyres trying to maintain the OD and hence if you work it out below then you will realise that by going for 205/55/16 you will be doing the right thing! Also you will notice that the car will be just something else to drive as the Brakes, Suspension all are set for 16, so expect the braking to be extrememly good, handling to be on par with the RS and increase in stability. I think 16inchers are a must for the Civic, how come Honda is not permitting all manufacturers allow you to go for the size available in international market for the same product.

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html

[ST7677]

Hey BUSA, nice to have you back

wider rubber will affect FE.

Any idea how much is the impact from
195 -> 205
195 -> 215

[quicksilver]

Originally Posted by BUSA

The Civic outside comes with 205/55/16, http://www.honda.net.my/models/newcivic/index.html wheras the one in India comes with 195/65/15, however the car is made for 205/55/16 and when they get it in India they dont adjust the chassis or anything instead they get the nearest perfect downsize of the tyres trying to maintain the OD ..................

how come Honda is not permitting all manufacturers allow you to go for the size available in international market for the same product.

Am sure Honda SIEL must have worked on the suspension setup for the India specific civic, keeping both the road conditions as well as the general preferences in mind. The recommendations should also be based on that.

Haven't we see all these manufacturers doing extensive road tests to this effect?

So my friend, whats good for a car internationally, might not be as good for your Indian spec. Stick to the same size alloys and increase the tyre width if you want. Am sure you don't want to loose your warranty on the new car....

[rangaraj]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Hey Adarsh76, looks like you got the Tatas confused with the Hondas. That's the Tata strategy you mentioned, of using the initial buyers of any of their products as guinea pigs.

And BTW, these are not shortcomings (as in defects / issues with the product), but pricing strategies which is the manufacturer's prerogative, and subject to the buyer's acceptance. A new product being priced high or accessories sold separately etc is a normal marketing practice and a balance will be reached between the seller and buyer as the product matures. For now, the seller would like to skim the max. possible cream from the niche segment that wants to have the product first. And if that market is OK with the premium so as to have the distinction of owning the car first, what's the issue ? Applies to all products - not a Honda thing.

And they have the audacity to call it V2 as a software product!!! The least they could do is take one approach of 2005 Indica or 2006 indica (though only microsoft introduces office '97 in 2000 ;-) and gets away with it )..

[rangaraj]

Originally Posted by ST7677

Any idea how much is the impact from
195 -> 205
195 -> 215

I can say out of experience on a baleno when i came out of the showroom, i took it straight to the tyre shop and changed it to 205's and it greatly improved the roadgrip/cornering stability and has not affected mileage at all. I get 10.5-11kmpl with A/C in the city and 15-16kmpl on the highway which is great and i would not sacrifice that additional "safety" factor even if i got one 1kmpl extra..

[adarsh76]

Originally Posted by supremeBaleno

Hey Adarsh76, looks like you got the Tatas confused with the Hondas. That's the Tata strategy you mentioned, of using the initial buyers of any of their products as guinea pigs.

And BTW, these are not shortcomings (as in defects / issues with the product), but pricing strategies which is the manufacturer's prerogative, and subject to the buyer's acceptance. A new product being priced high or accessories sold separately etc is a normal marketing practice and a balance will be reached between the seller and buyer as the product matures. For now, the seller would like to skim the max. possible cream from the niche segment that wants to have the product first. And if that market is OK with the premium so as to have the distinction of owning the car first, what's the issue ? Applies to all products - not a Honda thing.

But I feel that they've done injustice to "City" owners. The City ZX looks much better than the previous version and both cars are distinguishable too. Personally, I never liked the previous version of City and I guess it sold well only because of that brand image factor. City ZX not only looks better though still a controversial design but has improved ride quality also. Suspensions are new and dont have that bumpy ride in the previous version.

I guess the same thing will happen to Civic. They'll make it better at a later stage but it won be that long also. After spending some 10+ lakhs on this car and seeing a better version later will be heartbreaking.

[sandeep108]

Originally Posted by adarsh76

But I feel that they've done injustice to "City" owners. The City ZX looks much better than the previous version and both cars are distinguishable too. Personally, I never liked the previous version of City and I guess it sold well only because of that brand image factor. City ZX not only looks better though still a controversial design but has improved ride quality also. Suspensions are new and dont have that bumpy ride in the previous version.

I guess the same thing will happen to Civic. They'll make it better at a later stage but it won be that long also. After spending some 10+ lakhs on this car and seeing a better version later will be heartbreaking.

I agree and it is a trend set by Honda. In any case in spite of 3 new models, I enjoyed and still enjoy my ohc - not one regret - being the first model even. This is something we have to expect for all models - see corolla, optra, etc. In fact we are reasonably lucky that in India it takes them 2-3 years to do it, whereas internationally mostly it is every year.

[shuvc]

Just returned after a 3km drive of the AT. Overall I loved the car.
Smooth, refined, airy, spacious, looks great.
12.35 OTR for the AT
11.61 OTR for the MT

Loved:
#Engine .. that I guess is a no brainer
#Paddle Shifts
#Driving position - am 6'1" and set the seat at its lowest. At the highest point it gets a wee bit uncomfortable as the eyes are almost at the same level as the sunshade.
#AC - temp from 19 to 31; is that a standard ?
#Space
#Display - it might actually distract the driver more than conventional displays, since it's so beautiful
#Drivers arm rest - it is adjustable. Can slide forward and back
#Steering - lovely sporty feel
#Power windows sense obstructions (eg fingers) and roll down automatically
#Flat floor at the rear

Glitches IMO:
# Alloys could have looked better
# General impression was that the Corolla feels more luxurious inside
# Indicator and wiper stalks are matt finish. Personally would have preffered smooth shiny ones.
# Paddles move with the steering (as I think it does in most cars). However this means having to keep your hands on fixed areas on the steering. Maybe its just a matter of getting used to.
# Seats are good .. but as I got back into the Baleno after the drive, I felt more comfy. Maybe another case of habit.

Sales guy said - they are getting around 9 to 9.5 FE in the demo cars; 50 bookings in 4 days; black not available, red is rare, rest of the colours available.

Had I been in the market today, I would have bought the AT. Good that Honda has set some benchmarks here at a competitive price. When I do shop for my next car, there should be more options in this segment.