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View Poll Results: Which Version would you prefer
Manual 87 36.10%
Paddle Shifting 98 40.66%
I wont buy the Civic 56 23.24%
Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12th July 2006, 19:02   #151
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Called up Honda to book for a test drive. They dont seem to be sending the car out of town for test drives ( at least now ). Will have to wait for a few days to try it out.

I told them I wanted the Auto box one. I was told they'll put me on the queue. The sales guy asked me if i could send a cheque by courier tomorrow so that i can get the car without further delays after my test drive!!! Told him I needed a black one. He said there is a waiting period of 2 months as of now.

Edit - I just found out that there is a nice low milege VTEC sitting here. Was used by a lady doc. Has got quite a few dents (reason enough for me to repaint it), has never been ripped. Infact the car is yet to get a change of tires. Suspension is in good condition. I am very tempted. Only the price can tell.

Last edited by Harrie : 12th July 2006 at 19:04.
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Old 12th July 2006, 21:21   #152
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If anybody wants more on the tech. front:
http://world.honda.com/CIVIC/1.8li-vtec/
There is a lovely flash movie (WARNING: lots of bandwidth required)
and pictures / charts.
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Old 12th July 2006, 23:22   #153
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Quote:
Paddles move with the steering (as I think it does in most cars). However this means having to keep your hands on fixed areas on the steering. Maybe its just a matter of getting used to.
Paddle shifters make a lot of sense if you're flooring the car through a series of bends or on a race track. For day to day use, they're hopeless.

If you're not a sporty driver, stay away from the paddles.

Shan2nu
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Old 12th July 2006, 23:34   #154
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Quote:
Edit - I just found out that there is a nice low milege VTEC sitting here. Was used by a lady doc. Has got quite a few dents (reason enough for me to repaint it), has never been ripped.
Haha, don't be so sure. Our Vtec is driven by a lady doctor (my mom) and people think it hasn't been ripped.

PS : Whats the point of buying a Vtec that hasn't been ripped!!!

Shan2nu
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Old 12th July 2006, 23:39   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
For day to day use, they're hopeless.
Very true. Even within those few kms I drove (touched max 105kmph in D mode) , I felt that 90%, maybe more, of the times, owners will never use the paddles. The auto is good enough for fairly spirited driving.
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Old 13th July 2006, 10:14   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu
Paddle shifters make a lot of sense if you're flooring the car through a series of bends or on a race track. For day to day use, they're hopeless.

If you're not a sporty driver, stay away from the paddles.

Shan2nu
I do not agree 100%. If you are flooring the car, the D or S mode are adequate. In fact I observed in D mode if you floor, it gives shifts at 4-4.5k rpm, perfect peak of the torque curve. It is only when you want greater control, e.g. gradients, corners, overtaking, etc. that one would use the paddle to select/remain 3rd or 2nd. However, I love downshifting through corners. In that sense, the paddle shifters make great sense for me, having always been a stick shift guy...and ease the transition to AT. I am not too sure I would have polled for AT if not for the paddle shifters.

Also in fact many US/UK reviewers indicate better FE with AT than the manual - go figure. Though a relative who owns a AT corolla, did say he got better/same highway mileage (around 15-16) than his friends NHC-o (around 14-15) when they went on trip together, when he actually expected only 12. Let the protests begin!

Whatever people may say for Honda, I am reasonably impressed that this time they have got most of their latest tech. in this Civic, especially engine/gbox/dash/topline 6CD 6 spkr mp3. In USA/Canada I believe the paddle shift is only available on the Si coupe, while in Europe it is available on all AT models. Also in Europe they seem to have given 6 speed MT. In Asia, they give the paddles / 6CD changer only with 2.0l (155bhp) sedan and they have not introduced the Si at all. Si really has one of their greatest engines - 2.2l 197bhp at 8k rpm and 17"/215 rubber with 6 speed. But with current tax structure / road conditions, it may be another 50 years before we will see such cars launched in India.

Edit: On a side note, the rear audio control cover seems flimsy and so do the door side mirrors, considering indian tendency to fiddle with someone else's property...

Last edited by sandeep108 : 13th July 2006 at 10:15.
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Old 13th July 2006, 11:00   #157
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Yeah but what you get on the Civic isn't similar to what you get on an F1 car, M5 or even a VW Golf. Those cars don't have shift lag but people say the Civic has. That is a disadvantage according to me, coz with some practise, you could do better/faster shifts on a M/T.

I wanna own a paddle shifter as much as you do but, not this kind.

The basic idea of having paddles is to make the car sportier but, i'm sure the A/T Civic is going to be slower than the M/T. Whats the point of having paddles and looking good......when the next thing you know, you've been overtaken by a M/T Civic.

Anyway, the paddles are here......so can't do much about it now. Those who want them will buy them.

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Old 13th July 2006, 11:07   #158
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I have not driven the CIVIC but had the oppurtunity to sit in one , the drivers seat, what I felt was that the C pillar is very intrusive to the feild of visibility and also th digital speedo is great , but it sits right in your sight .What would yo see being distracted by the best digital speedo everseen on a Indian Car. Also the line of sight does not let you see the corners of the vehicle or the hood end, I felt that driving the car in city traffic would be ifficult, also th rear seem claustrophobic, The Corrola seems to be better in this area
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Old 13th July 2006, 11:48   #159
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I have driven it quite few times now, both MT and AT. There is lag in both, because of the drive by wire throttle tech., as I have mentioned in earlier post. Almost all AT generally lag, and where they don't are very highly more expensive. But there was one thing I could do in the paddle shift that I could not do in manual - downshift from 5th to 2nd in almost 1-2 sec., simply by pressing it 3 times very rapidly. If you try some thing like this in MT and your speed is too high, there will be all sorts of problems. So usually downshift is restricted from 5th to 3rd and finding 4th downshift in MT is always hassly. Not so in this AT. Also say if you are doing 120, it will not allow you to downshift to 2nd. Shan2nu: Do try out MT properly, somehow I was getting jerky shifting/knocking at times, which I normally would never get.

But yes, due to the type of tranny, clutch, etc. of course MT will always be faster/FE than AT, out of the stop. But look at the comfort level.
Maybe only road test of both by Autocar or Overdrive, etc. will reveal the differences.

I agree speedo distracting, but after a few days only for new passenger... I really had no problems driving on clear road as well as bumper to bumper traffic, both in AT/MT. The line of sight problem / visibility was there initially, but nowadays, most cars have this problem - look at indica/swift.

Last edited by sandeep108 : 13th July 2006 at 11:49.
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Old 13th July 2006, 12:21   #160
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I agree with Sandeep,

An AT, unless it is tech very advanced (F1, M5) will always lag behind an MT with a good driver. Even the VW DSG which is the best (Dual Clutch) AT common man can afford only manages to keep close on an MT in trained hands, in terms of pick up and is still lower on FE.

Well Civic AT is more or less an AT and, as I said earlier, one should go for it for 80-90% AT comfort and 10-20% Paddle Shift.

Paddle shifts are just an extra feature which is good as Honda is not charging anything really extra for it (most regular ATs are 80-100k extra over MT). Had Honda not brought the Paddle shifts people would still have screamed that Honda does not treat India at par...

I would generally stay away from ATs as they have a mind of their own, but with Paddle shifts, I can have control on the gears when I want to (20% time) and enjoy the luxury of not changing gears rest of the time (80%). It's unlike in a standard AT where you have to increase or reduce your throtel to indicate to the car to change the gear, you can do it yourself
Further, my paddle shift experience (over a long test drive) suggests that though there is a slight delay in the shift, the amount of time when power is not utilized is very little. So with some getting used to it, it will only get better.

In this case
paddle shifts = Tiptronic = +/- of gears on gear knob = manual control over gears as and when you want.

If you read my posts below and see my vote, I was initially very much in favor of MT, but the delightful test drive in AT, changed my decision to buy an AT (after initially booking an MT).
Now I feel so bad that based on my preconceived notion, I voted for MT before even testdriving the AT...
Mods, can I move my vote...


Last notes: Even Skoda Laura - the only DSG available in India does not provide paddle shifts, though they do abroad and it would have made more sense for them to provide the same here, than anybody else...!
I can only appreciate Honda...

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Last edited by adya33 : 13th July 2006 at 14:18.
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Old 13th July 2006, 12:31   #161
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Quote:
But there was one thing I could do in the paddle shift that I could not do in manual - downshift from 5th to 2nd in almost 1-2 sec., simply by pressing it 3 times very rapidly. If you try some thing like this in MT and your speed is too high, there will be all sorts of problems.
Quote:
Shan2nu: Do try out MT properly, somehow I was getting jerky shifting/knocking at times, which I normally would never get.
You're facing these problems bcoz you're not revvmatching. Any M/T will jerk if you shift to a lower gear without matching the engine speed with the gearbox.

I do 5th to 2nd shifts (rarely though, coz i usually go down in sequence) and haven't faced probs. And if done correctly, you could do 5-2 in less than a sec.

The next time you drive the A/T, watch the tacho and listen to the engine note. You'l notice a sudden increase in engine rpm as you downshift, thats bcoz the car revvmatches itself when you press the "down" paddle.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 13th July 2006 at 12:34.
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Old 13th July 2006, 12:32   #162
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The paddle shift in the Civic is something one of its kind in our market however it is not as good or better then the Manual. Honda advertises saying paddles of f1, the closest paddles shifting a road car has to a F1 car is the latest Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano, even the Enzo was not as good. While driving a Ferrari 575 JC said that manual gearbox is better then the paddles. If you want to show that you are Micheal Schumacher then go for the paddles, but if you are into serious racing then you are better of with the manual. Here are a few reasons why.

1. Manual is faster.
2. Manual is cheaper.
3. Manual is more FE definately. The reason for the Corolla to be more FE on that trip can be attributed to many reasons like weight in car, driving habits, car condition, runnning in. It has been said by many a auto version of the same car will atleast go a km less a liter.
4. There is no lag in Manual.
5. You can change gears from 5th to 2nd without having to go from 4th,3rd.
6. You can play with the clutch, launch car at which ever RPM you want, do wheelspins, rev the way you like and much more.

Advantages of a Paddle shifter over Manual.

1. You dont have to take your hand over the steering.
2. You dont have a clutch so no worn out clutch.
3. Auto downshifting so no stalling.
4. Shift through corners would be fun.

I would have chosen a Paddles AT over the manual but the AT Paddles is only fun if you are on full throttle for day to day a manual would be better bet. You pay Rs. 77,000 more for a AT wheras you can get some performance mods in those $$$ and whip Octy RS.

By the way since some one asked about the 0 - 100 expect the manual to reach there is 8.9-9.4 secs and the AT about 2 secs later, just my rough calculations from the performance figures and graphs.

Quote:
I am reasonably impressed that this time they have got most of their latest tech. in this Civic, especially engine/gbox/dash/topline 6CD 6 spkr mp3
How come Honda is giving a 6 speaker system where the trend in this segment is 8 speakers??

I too am impressed with the digital dash, the looks but how i hoped they would have given fogs, audio control on steering, lumbar support and leather. Even they being a option would have been equally good.

Quote:
I just found out that there is a nice low milege VTEC sitting here. Was used by a lady doc. Has got quite a few dents (reason enough for me to repaint it), has never been ripped.
Harrie what are you waiting for, only few Vtecs are available nowadayz and the OHC Vtec is a OHC Vtec.

P.S Is there a New NHC ZX around the corner. Todays Rev Up page 3 Q1 seems to be saying something similar about a December launch?
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Old 13th July 2006, 13:01   #163
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Excellent reviews by ST and Busa. This is my first post but have been reading your reviews over the past few days.
About to buy a new car... had zeroed in on the Skoda RS way back in March but then the new civic was to be launched soon, so waited all this while. My dilemma is - How do you compare the skoda RS and civic on the following counts:
1. Build quality.
2. Performance.
3. Looks - Road presence & snob value.
4. Interiors & comfort.
5. Ride quality.
Have driven both the versions of the civic but am still confused beteen RS and civic. One more thing - Will changing to 16" alloys and 205/55 rubber affect the ride quality?
Please advise team-bhpians.

Last edited by Rtech : 13th July 2006 at 13:03.
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Old 13th July 2006, 13:29   #164
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How do you compare the skoda RS and civic on the following counts:
1. Build quality. RS is better built no doubt in that.
2. Performance. RS is the faster of the two and if you spend 50k you can remap it to 200bhp.
3. Looks - The Civic looks one of its kind but the RS looks oh so sports car type. Road presence RS has more road presence then its Japanese counter part. & snob value - Civic has more snob value then the RS.
4. Interiors & comfort. - Civic has better interiors and is more comfortable then the RS in terms of head room leg room however RS has better seats, Recaro type buckets with Lumbar support.
5. Ride quality. - Civic has a better ride quality then the RS though the Civic has a bumpy ride at low speeds.
Quote:
Have driven both the versions of the civic but am still confused beteen RS and civic. One more thing - Will changing to 16" alloys and 205/55 rubber affect the ride quality?
Yes it will slightly but the gain in handling, stability and braking will justify it.

Edit - The Civic is more of a Luxury car wheras the RS is more of a sports car meant for people who would prefer driving it all the time.

Last edited by BUSA : 13th July 2006 at 13:32.
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Old 13th July 2006, 14:19   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUSA
How do you compare the skoda RS and civic on the following counts:
1. Build quality. RS is better built no doubt in that.
2. Performance. RS is the faster of the two and if you spend 50k you can remap it to 200bhp.
3. Looks - The Civic looks one of its kind but the RS looks oh so sports car type. Road presence RS has more road presence then its Japanese counter part. & snob value - Civic has more snob value then the RS.
4. Interiors & comfort. - Civic has better interiors and is more comfortable then the RS in terms of head room leg room however RS has better seats, Recaro type buckets with Lumbar support.
5. Ride quality. - Civic has a better ride quality then the RS though the Civic has a bumpy ride at low speeds.


Yes it will slightly but the gain in handling, stability and braking will justify it.

Edit - The Civic is more of a Luxury car wheras the RS is more of a sports car meant for people who would prefer driving it all the time.
Thanks for your advise Busa. Just one more query to bother you - I stay in a hill station, and hence 80% of my driving is on curvy hill roads, with uphill or downhill gradient... hence good handling and adequate engine power are required. Does the civic have sufficient handling & engine power for hills or is RS better on this count?
Please advise. Sorry to bother you again.
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