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View Poll Results: Which Version would you prefer
Manual 87 36.10%
Paddle Shifting 98 40.66%
I wont buy the Civic 56 23.24%
Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 17th July 2006, 17:23   #196
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The Corollas engine is better then the Civic indeed, its a DOHC VVTi as opposed to a SOHC VTEC and it shows in the low end driving. MT 0 - 1000 - 9.59 secs & AT - 11.33!

EDIT - Rtech Honda is masters at engine there is no doubt. The civics engine can go further up RPM wise then the Corollas but the Civics engine lacks low end torque and not looking only at the specs i am also talking that the Corollas engine is better because of its drivability. The Honda engine doesnot have low end torque. Even ACI has said similar things about the Corollas engine being better then a Civic. Infact corolla with proper aeros has taken the fight to the RS!

Last edited by BUSA : 17th July 2006 at 17:37.
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Old 17th July 2006, 17:33   #197
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Busa, I;ve driven the Corolla across India and I can safely say that the engine, though good on paper, is really not a drivers delight.

I haven't driven the New Civic yet, but I really doubt Honda would get that wrong. The rest of the car may be in need to some improvements (according to some people), but if its one thing Honda know to do, it is to build awesome engines.

As I keep harping....look beyond the specs on paper!!
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Old 17th July 2006, 18:01   #198
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I also had the chance to drive a Corolla AT for a few days (though not across India - lucky Rtech) and can definitely say that the Civic engine is far smoother and very eminently driveable. The Corolla simply did not like being pushed beyond 4,500 rpm and was very harsh. You are not sure whether the engine will deliver or not. OTOH the civic revs very smoothly to 6k+ with nice response. On paper with 10% extra torque civic actually should be better, cannot understand why ACI says no. On my long test drive, I had no problems of driveability, I can tell you as compared to the Corolla and pickup also felt much better.

But then ACI is comparing MT Corolla/Civic and I did feel a bit of throttle lag in the MT Civic (as I have posted earlier) and surprised ACI did not report this - maybe this is the driveability issue they are talking about.

The Civic simply comes accross as a more refined car as corolla.
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Old 17th July 2006, 19:41   #199
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ACI says Civic streets ahead of Corolla - 9/10, 8/10 respectively

There should be a bigger difference

.......nw the Embera is available at Rs 11 L ....makes you think!
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Old 17th July 2006, 19:51   #200
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I have driven Corolla M/T and it feels way under powered compared to the claimed 125PS!

Cannot say the same about Civic. Not sure about the figures, but Civic feels more peppy.
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Old 17th July 2006, 20:12   #201
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Also though Civic is bigger on paper, somehow does not feel bigger. Easier for self driver I think to park, etc. Considering both pros and cons, I think ACI's difference is OK, for indian conditions. For the rear seat, in corolla it is easier to get in/out. Civic is as low as Accord/OHC. But yes ACI should have given 7.5 or 7 to corolla as compared to civic, since modern tech engine/gbox (AT), build quality, stiffer body, looks both ext./int. and handling are really way way ahead. I also checked - ACI goes on about ground clearance - it is same in corolla 170mm.

BTW, the AT Corolla had terrible brake noise/rattles and less than 6 months old. Right now is good time to buy corolla - more than 1,00,000/- discount!
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Old 17th July 2006, 20:13   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST7677
I have driven Corolla M/T and it feels way under powered compared to the claimed 125PS!

Cannot say the same about Civic. Not sure about the figures, but Civic feels more peppy.
Agreed and also feels always able to deliver.
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Old 17th July 2006, 21:34   #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST7677
I have driven Corolla M/T and it feels way under powered compared to the claimed 125PS!
Well i wouldnt vouch for that .. A certain stock corolla with the right upsize on the wheels whopped a couple of Skoda RS's at speedrun last year ... Which certainly doesnt make it a wallflower as u made it out to be .. Also i have personally driven a friends corrolla and its not at all underpowered by any means and driving a not so stock baleno and having driven a few OHC VTEC's i guess i could qualify to make this statement .. Corrolla is QUICK ..

Also its a known fact the most of the honda engines are world renowned for the high revving capabilities but having low end torque at the same time is a different ball game altogether .. For a fact in city its the low end torque thats plays an important role , unless one can travel through roads where u can always be in the VTEC range or close to redline .. That said yes i am generalizing , but would comment on the rest of the car after getting a TD ..
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Old 17th July 2006, 22:33   #204
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Quote:
Well i wouldnt vouch for that .. A certain stock corolla with the right upsize on the wheels whopped a couple of Skoda RS's at speedrun last year
U still think it was the wheels don't you? Cmon man, 150bhp Turbo Charged RS vs 125bhp Corolla, in a straight line???? No brainer!!!

I'm not saying the RS won. Maybe it did lose that day, but giving the credit to the wheel upsize, isn't happening............

Quote:
Also its a known fact the most of the honda engines are world renowned for the high revving capabilities but having low end torque at the same time is a different ball game altogether .. For a fact in city its the low end torque thats plays an important role , unless one can travel through roads where u can always be in the VTEC range or close to redline .. That said yes i am generalizing , but would comment on the rest of the car after getting a TD ..
U feel all Honda owners keep the revvs at 4000+ in the city? No way, I usually shift at 2500rpm. It's not like these cars are not driveable below 4k. Agreed, they don't have massive low end torque but cmon, it's not that bad.

U cannot have a FE car if it needs to be kept at high rpms all the time.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 17th July 2006 at 22:35.
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Old 17th July 2006, 22:50   #205
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Quote:
U still think it was the wheels don't you? Cmon man, 150bhp Turbo Charged RS vs 125bhp Corolla, in a straight line???? No brainer!!!
Give me a break, please i totally agree with mclaren, how does a OHC Vtec nuke a Accord? 142 bhp vs 106bhp, please no brainer! Look at the weight of the Corolla and look at the weight of the RS, plus the turbo lag. Corollas engine is better then the Civics no doubt about that and with the right ability to put the power down of the Corolla with the bigger wheels it can easily beat a RS. Its all about aerodynamis, Red Bull and Ferrari use the same engine in F1 but the difference is much more then that on the track because of downforce, etc.

Quote:
U cannot have a FE car if it needs to be kept at high rpms all the time.
Then whats the use of Vtec??

Quote:
Civic is as low as Accord/OHC. But yes ACI should have given 7.5 or 7 to corolla as compared to civic, since modern tech engine/gbox (AT), build quality, stiffer body, looks both ext./int. and handling are really way way ahead. I also checked - ACI goes on about ground clearance - it is same in corolla 170mm.
How can we be judging how much marks the Corolla deserves, withour test driving it. I mean the All new corolla has altered suspension, tubeless rubber which is bound to make a difference. Also i cant get the point why Corolla should get less marks some points strongly in favour of the Corolla are Equipment levels are better then the Civic, Toyotas A.S.S, Rear Seats more comfortable then Civic, Engine of the Civic is good but simply put the Corollas is better! So i would say that modern tech engine No, Corollas i as good if not better, gbox (AT) AT or MT the gearbox of the Civic is definately better no doubt, build quality Both have equally good built quality, stiffer body How does that help?? looks both ext./int. Thats a personal opinion but i like the Civics looks way more then Corolla and handling Civic is better again, but keeping all the above points into consideration the pros and cons i think ACI has rightly rated the Corolla 8/10

Quote:
AT Corolla had terrible brake noise/rattles and less than 6 months old
I have felt the same with a less then one year 11,000km car! Bad.
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Old 17th July 2006, 23:08   #206
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Why do we forget that while comparing the performance of a car,Its a 40/60 relationship. 40% imputs by the car and 60% by the driver.

A skoda RS cannot be smoked by a Corolla. Its not just the turbo that skoda Boasts. Forgot the 5valves per cylinder, 16"spider alloy wheels, DOHC layout, 210nm torque etc etc.

As far as the civic goes, the engine is certainly as good as that of corolla. But corolla is lightweight.Hence both are competitive enough.
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Old 17th July 2006, 23:25   #207
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Quote:
Give me a break, please i totally agree with mclaren, how does a OHC Vtec nuke a Accord? 142 bhp vs 106bhp, please no brainer!
Who says it does? The Accord is quicker than the Vtec.

Quote:
Then whats the use of Vtec??
It's a general misconception that Vtec only works at high rpms. Vtec is designed to give the engine variable valve timing, depending on the engine rpm.

At low rpms, the valves open later and close early (with lower degree of valve lift). This reduces the amount of air entering the engine, which translates to lesser airfuel mixture being burnt per revolution. So, by keeping the car at low rpms, you're not utilising the full potential of the engine. That was the FE part.

Now, we move on to the higher rpms, this is where the valves start to open early and close late (with maximum valve lift). This allows maximum amount of air fuel mixture to be burnt per revolution. This is where the true potential of the engine is realised and thats where all the "POWER" comes in.

If a Vtec engine is to be kept at high revvs all the time, it can't be FE. The only reason why they are so, is bcoz they can be driven at low rpms with a sedate valve profile.

So, you can drive down to a track, drive the wheels off it and still have enuf fuel to get back home.

Hope that cleared it.

Shan2nu
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Old 17th July 2006, 23:42   #208
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Quote:
How can we be judging how much marks the Corolla deserves, withour test driving it.
Agree with you here. Don't ever believe the star ratings given by mags. It is impossible to rate a car based on what the tester feels about. It's too subjective..................and ratings would differ from person to person.

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Old 18th July 2006, 00:02   #209
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Hey isn't Toyota's VVTi the same as Vtec?
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Old 18th July 2006, 00:08   #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Hey isn't Toyota's VVTi the same as Vtec?
Not exactly, Hondas Vtec has lift Toyotas VVTi doesnot. Toyotas VVTLi is equivalent to i-Vtec.
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