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Old 14th August 2007, 14:04   #346
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Check out this video which details out the new R18A engine
Honda Worldwide | New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine
(try narrowband if it takes too much time)

And some pictures about engine and charts at
Honda Worldwide | July 5, 2005 "Honda Develops New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine"

This engine produces more BHP (132BHP India tune) and more torque (17.5) than all competitive NA engines.
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:08   #347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST7677 View Post
My first hand experience and Independent sources (including all leading car magazines) suggest that Civic has better mileage than Corolla.
Ditto.. a friend owning both the vehicle reaffirms the same
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Old 14th August 2007, 15:40   #348
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dear alankarm,
i have not understood the rear suspension problem.do you mean that at around 60 kmph over small pot holes (and what about bigger pot holes ?) some noise comes ? , i thought that low GC was the problem,but as it appears civic has rear suspension problem too. could you please elaborate.
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Old 14th August 2007, 16:09   #349
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i dont know wat he means but me not facing any problem with rear suspension.bro just go for the civic there are 100s of people in this forum who will vouch for civic. take a test drive if u have not
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Old 14th August 2007, 17:15   #350
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dear jeetu,
have taken a test drive,probably what he means is that i should check rear suspension when buying the car,let me wait for his reply
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Old 14th August 2007, 19:26   #351
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Do check the rear suspension with a reasonably full car (with stuff in boot also), over small (not big) potholes at 60 kmh or so. Check for rear suspension/shocker noise (turn off the Audio).
This is the first mention of any rear suspension related issue. Care to explain what it was?
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Old 14th August 2007, 19:35   #352
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I think what was being referred to is the limited amount of suspension travel, especially when the rear is loaded.

In order to fit in the higher profile tires for the Indian conditions, the travel of the rear suspension is reduced from its original settings, otherwise the stance of the car would be awkward - much like the Indica, small wheels and a big gap (sorry it came out, sorry to my Indica).

Anyway concerning the FE of my Civic , I hardly get 8 kmpl with AC on in Chennai, haven't done a long trip so cannot comment about the FE there.

I read somewhere that the i-VTEC mechanism depends on a lot of parameters i.e you need to be in a RPM range starting from 1500 to until 3000 RPM, in that range your throttle inputs should be steady or light throttle, if you do not manage that then the i-VTEC is not triggered at all.

The mechanism is aimed at reducing pumping losses at light throttle, but if you are in a traffic situation where you accelerate for a short span , brake and then accelerate again, the engine is programmed for power than FE.

Just my 2 cents...
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Old 14th August 2007, 19:46   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ST7677 View Post
Check out this video which details out the new R18A engine
Honda Worldwide | New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine
(try narrowband if it takes too much time)

And some pictures about engine and charts at
Honda Worldwide | July 5, 2005 "Honda Develops New 1.8l i-VTEC Engine"

This engine produces more BHP (132BHP India tune) and more torque (17.5) than all competitive NA engines.
Cedia has more torque (175Nm, 17.8Kgm) than the civic and the torque arrives way earlier too. However there's no comparison in the power stakes thanks to detuning from 140bhp to 114bhp .
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Old 14th August 2007, 21:55   #354
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What I mean is there is a noise from the rear suspension when the car moves over even small potholes more pronounced when reasonably loaded. It has a rough backseat ride at low to medium speeds, upto 80-90 km/h. The shockers tend to bottom out (they say it has a soft suspension) and give a jarring impact with noise, impact can be felt by the rear seat passenger.

This is the problem in my CIVIC at least. I have been complaining in writing since the 1st check up at a 1000 km. They just re-aligned the wheels. (No advantage)

They changed the ENGINE MOUNTINGS at the 5000 km service. Why? I can't say, as my problem was rear suspension noise.

At 7,500 km again I went to the Workshop at Jaipur to get the noise checked up. No result.

We have also got the suspension noise verified from their service persons who had come to Ajmer for a service camp.

At 10,000 km service we also complained of some uneven wear startin g on rear tyres. My driver was made a joke of by being asked whether he worked in a tyre company. No other work done.

At 15000 km service we complained of loud tyre noise inside cabin, from 60 km/h onwards, increasing with speed to become unbearable. This time they verified it as uneven tyre wear due to tyre defect. No work done as tyre person not available that day.

The Goodyear tyre company representative came to our residence at Ajmer (yes, the workshop is at Jaipur which is 135 km away). He checked the tyre with instruments. His written report says that the there is "IRIVER" wear in the rear tyres, and this is not due to any defect in the tyre. He also tells me to get the suspension checked, as there is some underlying cause for the uneven wear. He says that this is the 1st tyre replacement that he may have to give in CIVIC. He asys that inspite of the report that he is giving, he will ensure that the tyres are replaced as a goodwill measure, but I must 1st atleast try to get the suspension problem sorted out.

At 17500 km or so I again sent the car to Jaipur to get the tyres replaced. Alignment done again, but no balancing done. Nothing else done to the suspension.

The suspension noise still coming. Took the car to Jaipur for the 20000 km service on 7th Aug. Now we reported certain bubbling (which was bound to come as no balancing done with tyre change). Now balancing done at an approx cost of Rs.1700/- for 4 wheels. Throttle cleaning and injector cleanning done (without informing me, and I was there at the workshop for 2 hours from 12-2pm). Air filter and other filters replaced.Oil change and regular service. Total cost Rs5,631/- . 631/- waived off after a big showdown over phone.

No work on suspension as they promised to replace the shockers, but the part not available with them. Also the right wiper blade has been making a noise and leaving chatter marks. Also promised to replace this at a later date as the part again not available.


NOW THIS IS WHAT I CALL THE LEGENDARY HONDA SERVICE. Detailed breakup available if needed.

Now yesterday 13th Aug. I get a call from the dealership at 12:30 pm, that they can send me the parts to Ajmer or I can send the car to Jaipur again to get the car fixed. I say I would like it to be done at Ajmer.
They tell me OK we are sending the parts to Kishangarh (where my work is and it is enroute Ajmer from Jaipur) so that I can get them changed by their team which is returning from Jodhpur (or Udaipur).

Also Mr. Umesh Butani from Honda SIEL is there, and he could also check the car. I told them that this is not practical that I keep on sending the car to Jaipur for their car defect issues which should not be there in the 1st place (This is a CIVIC). I ask to speak to Mr. Butani. He calls me up some time later and I explain my problems. He says he would like to see the car, possibly on the next visit to Jaipur (I have to send it there).

At 4.30 pm I get a call from their team that they have reached and do I have the parts? (not recieved till then).

I call up Jaipur to be told that Mr BUtani has asked that he wants to inspect the car before anything is done on it. He will be back to Jaipur after 15-20 days and I should send the car then, so he can inspect it.

I must also tell you that I was in DELHI from 4th Aug to 6th Aug and had written to Honda SIEL to get the car inspected there by their own Engineers so as to ascertain the problem. They put me in contact with another of their dealer (Ringroad Honda) to get the car inspected. This was to be done by the dealer's mechanics and not Company Engineers at Nangloi (about 1-1.5 hr drive from where I was). Needless to say that I did not send the car as I could not afford such a downtime of practically a full day.

Anyway Mr Butani cancelled the Shockers and Wiper blades, without informing me, who as an idiot was waiting for those parts in my office. Now the work will be done on one of Mr Butani's visit to Jaipur, when
I am able to send the car to Jaipur at the same time.

CAN MR JEETU OR ANYONE ELSE COMMENT. I HAVE MORE GRIEVANCES BUT FOR LATER.

I must again tell you that I have 3 IDENTICAL OHCs and my Father in law has an NHC and Accord. We have had a trouble free and excellent experience till this CIVIC. Also we have had cars since 1931 (my great grand father's time), and have had all varieties of cars including Mercs, Hudson, Impala, Morris, Baby Hindustan, and god only knows which ones I'm just 39 years old. So if they think we are not correct I think they should get their heads checked. None of my current cars, except 5 yr old M-800, makes any kind of suspension noises.

Do they expect me to compare a 12+lakh car with a Maruti 800??

NOW TELL ME WHAT TO DO?? You all talk about test drives, I talk about 22,000 kms in my own car. this may be a one off problem in the CIVIC. It can happen in any car or machinery, BUT it must be properly handled so as not to lead to such grievances.

NOW TELL ME WHAT IS MY MISTAKE??

Last edited by alankarm@sancha : 14th August 2007 at 22:07.
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Old 14th August 2007, 22:10   #355
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dear alankarm,
i fully agree with your concerns and it is up tp HONDA to take care of the problem if they want to retain their prestige. you may think of of going to consumer court for not getting proper service from HONDA.
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Old 14th August 2007, 23:03   #356
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My sympathies to you,alankarm@sancha, but the matter of fact is that , no one except you seems to have faced this problem ( neither have I ) , But you should try to talk honda people into getting some sense in to their heads, I mean its not practical for any one to travel 135 kms for just a service & then have a problem with a car, whose brand itself is based on their cars reliability factor over the years.

Just tell them , that you will drag them to consumer court for not listening to your woes & selling you a defective vehicle in the first place.
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Old 14th August 2007, 23:20   #357
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OTT, I just went to a honda dealer, (Courtesy honda ) with a friend for a query for the civic & the sales guy said that the 'S' version is soon to be discontinued in favor of the 'V' version.
When I asked him, "what if a person doesn't need/want leather seats?" the guy answers that " leather seats costs 44ks & that amount would be deducted from the total cost". Plus he also mentioned that this has not yet been officially conveyed by the parent company.

Now my question here is should my friend go in for the 'S' version now or wait till the newer version without leather is launched, considering the fact that Honda has no discounts available.

Guys, your help would be really appreciated.
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Old 15th August 2007, 01:30   #358
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I read somewhere here on the forum that the S version for the AT has been discontinued.

alankarm: sorry to hear that you have so much trouble. I've not faced any problem with the Civic so far or maybe I'm ignorant to notice anything. The dealer needs a good kick....

Rear suspension is soft. However this helps over uneven roads as it smoothens out the ride and there's not much rolling. But you hit really bad roads or big potholes then the rear suspension can bottom out.
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Old 15th August 2007, 02:16   #359
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Based on a more than a few experiences would not really rate Honda India service that high.Have too add that at times there is a bit of arrogance in their behaviour.

Quote:
Now the work will be done on one of Mr Butani's visit to Jaipur, when
I am able to send the car to Jaipur at the same time
Very unfortunate indeed but what I can't understand is why the dealer cannot keep wiper blades,linkages in their stock why all the running around for that.
The suspension replacement delay is fine if they want to do it only after honda inspection and report.

Last edited by rahul_intlad : 15th August 2007 at 02:27.
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Old 15th August 2007, 06:52   #360
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I have written to Honda time and again with full details. Always I get a call from Honta one 2 one, which probably is just a call center. Then they follow it up by asking me whether the dealer has called me.

If this is the follow up - for nearly a year now, then god help me. If there was so much complaint from me, and no work being done by them I think the Honda SIEL at Delhi should have got the matters cleared long ago as my letters to them have been sent a few days before and a few days after each visit to the Workshop.

To Honda one 2 one Escalating the matter means just informing the dealer, and confirming with me as to whether the Dealer called. This has happened many times already.

Sending the car to Jaipur, whenever I face a problem in the defective car, entails a cost of about 1500/- + downtime + tensions + (my own time if I have to go personally to get this damn problem rectified). Is this justified?

Another thing I must point out is I have threatened them with talks of a legal notice, but it does not seem to affect them.

DO I KEEP SENDING THE CAR TO JAIPUR WHENEVER THEY DEMAND THAT IT BE SENT. Why can't the Co. do the work at Ajmer? - as I have already visited the workshop 7-8 times (including services).

This is the E-mail I have just recieved from Honda's customer care:

[FONT=Arial]Dear Sir[/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]This has reference to your email dated 12 Aug 2007 regarding your Honda Civic vehicle bearing registration no RJ 01 CA 2095.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]At the outset we regret the inconvenience caused to you.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]As per the telephonic conversation our Mr Umesh Bhutani - Regional Manager Service had with you, we understand that it was not possible to make your car available for inspection during the visit of Mr Bhutani at Jaipur on 13th and 14th Aug 2007. We are advising our dealership M/s Pink City Honda, Jaipur to be intouch with you and accordingly intimate you about his next visit.[/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]Assuring you of our best services at all times.[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]
Regards,
[/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=sans-serif][SIZE=2]Naved Ahmad
Customer Relationship Management[/SIZE][/FONT]

Another thing I would like to point out is that -- if there is any defect in the suspension setup / shockers or EVEN if they are too soft, then the car will require the cost of realignment and balancing very regularly.

If Honda can detune the engine for Indian conditions, can't they adjust the suspension for Indian conditions? If they think that the Indian fuel is bad, do they think the Indian roads are like Silk?

The car may be a pleasure to drive after 3000 RPM or so, but does that mean that the passengers suffer? How many persons drive above that anyway? What about the slower speed rides? City conditions have a lot of potholes and rides are low to medium speeds oly.
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