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Old 21st August 2015, 15:08   #286
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Such a painful experience ! As against raving and ranting, I am sure it will be better to stay calm and get your vehicle checked for roadworthy-ness again.
Since you have done extensive modification and none of the mechanics/ workers have pointed out to you that it is a post accident repaired vehicle I am sure the damage was not as bad as it sounds. Now with the trust factor in the negatives, you cannot trust a word that the seller says, so it is no use asking him.
And if you use it within city limits I assume it will not be a cause for major concern.
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Old 21st August 2015, 15:40   #287
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Sorry to hear about the ordeal.
There is no point in taking to the seller as always it's "Buyers Beware", when it comes to any used products.

Get the car completely checked once and use it till you can.

You can never be really careful when you buy used cars.
I have come across instances where the RC cards are modified to make the cars "Single owner" cars while essentially they could be owned by multiple owners.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:02   #288
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Unhappy Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
When I had started my day today, I had least expected that I would get the biggest shock of my life . The whole story unfolded like this.

The major parts that were replaced were as below:
  • Chassis
  • Lock setup
  • Engine Mounting
  • Radiator
  • Air Duct
  • Bumper
  • Side fender
  • Front windshield
  • Top roof
  • RHS door hinges
  • Both front headlamps
  • Both fog lamps
  • Tail lamp RHS
  • AC Condenser
I have decided not to let my family know about this. I am disclosing this only to my close friends. I will enjoy this car till the time new Innova or equally competent car gets launched and will trade this for a new one.
- Expression while reading your post.
That was really bad of the previous owner not letting you know about this. If it was a small shunt and maybe the bumper had to be replaced, then not letting you know about that is acceptable(even though you should mention everything).

But, I am seeing big words like Chassis, Radiator, AC Condenser and Top roof which means it was welded back. It pains just realizing that. Maybe the door hinge issue was related to this?

Good to know that you have decided not to tell this to your family. Only once you tell will they start finding, feeling, hearing - cons, vibrations and noises. I hope they don't know about this thread.


P.S. Check the date of manufacture on the windshield and other windows to know whether this actually happened. Also the chassis no. mentioned in the VIN plate and the one in the RC book.

EDIT:
Since the whole chassis was replaced there shouldn't be any problems. Plus looking at your ownership report your car is performing like a dream. What has happened is past, so just chill out, for peace of mind get it assessed by Toyota A.S.S. But if they have not mentioned anything in the past few services, it means everything is in order. Keep Calm and wait for the new Innova.

Last edited by Shanksta : 21st August 2015 at 16:19.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:04   #289
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Feel sad to know about your ordeal. Good that you are not informing any of this to your family.

If the whole chassis was replaced, I doubt you will have structural integrity problems. As Innova is a body on ladder construction replacing complete chassis should solve basic structural problems. If your vehicle is behaving properly I do not think you should face any major problems. Get your vehicle checked to at least get an overview of your vehicles present condition compared to the damages it had suffered in previous crash and the parts replaced.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:11   #290
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Sorry to hear about the history and rather sudden knowledge of it out of the blue.

But as some are suggesting, keep cool and handle situation with caution.
You will need to take this thing with a pinch of salt.

No need to go to previous owner with negativity. Meet him but your objective should be understand
1) status of other keys with the key tag
2) knowing what was the accident about with respect to damages to the car more importantly, as you are curious, came to know from history at dealership, would like to know better just to keep things in mind etc,
3) nothing hurtful in sense or anyway

Look at the positive side
1) Your car is running fine without issues
2) Dealership / service engineers would have pointed any major issues during their test drives, checks or services, its all historically available data in the Toyota system
3) The chassis replacement is a welcome thing than having repaired parts/aligned and put back. The accident extent must have been so much so that the chassis part repairs/re-alignment etc may not have been feasible. It is possible the bearings came to be replaced as a result of that accident only though late. A brand new chassis is good thing to happen. All other replacements are bodily, cosmetic.

I don't see a need to sell it out in hurry too due to this thing coming to light.

If your family is able to understand such issues, there is no harm than bearing it on yourself alone, you may find better partners in your family if shared positively, IMHO.

Chill out and take cool steps.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:16   #291
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Such a shocking news. How people can do this kind of fraud? Please stay calm brother.
You have driven the vehicle extensively and you haven't faced any issues, i feel nothing major to worry. But still, get the vehicle thoroughly checked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
Are you sure about which chassis number is there in your R/C book? is it the new chassis number or the old chassis number? Also what is the chassis number in your transfer form (Form 15 i think)? If both R/C book and the transfer form contain the old chassis number you can drag the previous owner to court and jail for fraud.
Looks like, the previous owner had updated the new chassis number in RC keeping the registration number. But the LTT receipt will be having the old chassis number i guess.

Whatever I intend to say, parsh has already updated.

Last edited by kavu75 : 21st August 2015 at 16:19.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:24   #292
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Quite shocked to hear.Especially when this thread was my yardstick while i was considering a preowned Innova.
Didn't you crosscheck the service history before finalizing the deal?
I somehow never felt comfortable buying a preowned car unless I knew the owner personally.I feel the previous owner had cheated you more or the less by hiding the fact.
But looking at the way the car is performing without any flaws I dont think you will face any issues in the future apart from the structural Integrity.

Last edited by rakesh_r : 21st August 2015 at 16:27.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:48   #293
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Read the post twice.

While this is indeed a revelation but think again what your experience of owning and running the car had been. Enlist help of an expert and reevaluate the car without prejudice. If the reliability and handling is at par then enjoy the ownership.

Remember the caveat "buyer beware" that govern all sale purchase contracts. Only if you specifically asked the seller that the car had not met with any accident and he had confirmed this, can you say this is fraud.
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Old 21st August 2015, 16:58   #294
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I feel pained at your experience. Technically the previous owner has committed fraud by not letting you know about the car's accident and subsequent repairs. I am sure you had asked him if the car had met with any accident before buying it.
Thank you for sympathizing apachelongbow. Even before looking at the car the first question I had asked was, if the car has met with any minor/ major accidents and the obvious reply to my query was "NO"

Quote:
Please remember before buying any second hand vehicle, is to take its engine number and chassis number, and visit the nearest authorized workshop to check about the car's history.
When I got various proposals from agents I did visit the showroom, but only to be told that they don't share the service history with third persons and owner has to accompany the car or the third person. Since this was a case of individual seller (and not through agent) and that too a decent family (remember the owner's father is a retired General Manager in State Transport), I did not dig deep into getting the service history of the car checked. I did ask for the service invoices and he handed over to me the latest few. I went ahead purely based on trust and my instinct.

Quote:
For now you can meet the owner if you so wish, but don't expect any positive outcome by accusing him about his hiding of the accident.
No not at all, there is no point in crying over spilled milk. I only hope and wish he gives me the 4 digit code or hands over the spare key to me.

Quote:
Are you sure about which chassis number is there in your R/C book? is it the new chassis number or the old chassis number? Also what is the chassis number in your transfer form (Form 15 i think)? If both R/C book and the transfer form contain the old chassis number you can drag the previous owner to court and jail for fraud.
In all documentation it is the new chassis number only, RC book, insurance etc, transfer form etc. I don't want to trouble the previous owner in any which way. There is a saying in Marathi, "Yaachi dehi, yaachi dola", meaning "As you sow, so shall you reap". If he has done any wrong, the almighty would take care to compensate it. Who am I to wish him bad or even think of his ill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vin11 View Post
Well, this is really shocking! This is the risk associated with pre-owned cars. But as you said, the chassis had been replaced and I doubt whether the structural integrity would have taken a hit. It is a good idea not to let your family members know about this as this will make them feel sad and cheated. Nothing can be done now, you have the car with you and nothing is going to change. You must visit the previous owner and talk to him about this. But keep your cool and act wisely. The 'only' wrong deed of the previous owner was that he didn't tell you about the accident. Not taking his side, but I am saying that act wisely instead of getting enraged as nothing major can be changed now.

Nice to know that it is performing well though. I am a silent reader of this thread since the beginning.

Sorry, but out of curiousity, I wanted to know how exactly did you get the info about the accident.
Thanks for your concern and advise vin11. If I think too much negative about my previous it is only going to damage me. So I have already forgiven him. I came to know about this today at the service centre, when my Service Advisor informed me that they don't have the key code as this is a different key and the original chassis number and the current one are not matching. He then showed me the complete list of parts involved in the accident repair work carried out at the same workshop. Unfortunately I couldn't get a print out. He has promised me to mail it after discussing with his superiors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noidea View Post
Such a painful experience ! As against raving and ranting, I am sure it will be better to stay calm and get your vehicle checked for roadworthy-ness again.
Since you have done extensive modification and none of the mechanics/ workers have pointed out to you that it is a post accident repaired vehicle I am sure the damage was not as bad as it sounds. Now with the trust factor in the negatives, you cannot trust a word that the seller says, so it is no use asking him.
And if you use it within city limits I assume it will not be a cause for major concern.
Absolutely agree with you noidea. The vehicle rides and behaves as if just out of the showroom (believe me I am not exaggerating it). Even fellow TBHPian Shahbaaz has drive my car and he couldn't find anything untoward (except the humming noise), which has been fixed by rear wheel bearing replacement. I have driven the car on all types of terrain (roads and no roads), no problems whatsoever. Also driven at 120 kmph on Mumabi-Pune expressway, it is very stable. So no doubt the car is road-worthy, only if I had know about this incident well before hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedmiester View Post
Sorry to hear about the ordeal.
There is no point in taking to the seller as always it's "Buyers Beware", when it comes to any used products.

Get the car completely checked once and use it till you can.

You can never be really careful when you buy used cars.
I have come across instances where the RC cards are modified to make the cars "Single owner" cars while essentially they could be owned by multiple owners.
Exactly speedmiester, when I was buying the car I should have taken all the necessary precautions, my fault. But I am still not repenting on my decision. If the Service Advisor had not shown me the records, I would have never known in my entire life that this car has gone through such a major operation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanksta View Post
- Expression while reading your post.
That was really bad of the previous owner not letting you know about this. If it was a small shunt and maybe the bumper had to be replaced, then not letting you know about that is acceptable(even though you should mention everything).

But, I am seeing big words like Chassis, Radiator, AC Condenser and Top roof which means it was welded back. It pains just realizing that. Maybe the door hinge issue was related to this?
You are spot on Shanksta. The door hinges and the bearing issue could well be related to this incident and had shown up only after prolonged usage. Nevertheless both have been fixed for good now.

Quote:
Good to know that you have decided not to tell this to your family. Only once you tell will they start finding, feeling, hearing - cons, vibrations and noises. I hope they don't know about this thread.

On a lighter note(no offense), had he mentioned this accident you could have further saved a lakh or two on the price paid.

P.S. Check the date of manufacture on the windshield and other windows to know whether this actually happened. Also the chassis no. mentioned in the VIN plate and the one in the RC book.
Fantastic points there. When I am at the wheel and it is my car none of my family members are bothered about where we are going, how the road is or any other damn thing. They completely trust me and my car. They know that I do keep posting on TBHP, but no one has ever bothered to go through it themselves unless I show it to them.

I absolutely agree with you. Had he mentioned this accident I could have further saved a lakh or two on the price paid, probably he didn't want to take a big hit on resale price or even lose the deal, hence ket quiet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amit_purohit20 View Post
Feel sad to know about your ordeal. Good that you are not informing any of this to your family.

If the whole chassis was replaced, I doubt you will have structural integrity problems. As Innova is a body on ladder construction replacing complete chassis should solve basic structural problems. If your vehicle is behaving properly I do not think you should face any major problems. Get your vehicle checked to at least get an overview of your vehicles present condition compared to the damages it had suffered in previous crash and the parts replaced.
Spot on Amit. Now DSK has serviced my car 4 times after I took the ownership and have taken at least dozen trials. In none of them did they observe anything alarming. It was only me who pointed out the rattling doors (hinges replaced) and humming noise (bearing replaced). Car is completely niggle free now (touchwood)
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Old 21st August 2015, 17:28   #295
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Sir I was shocked when I read your post . But good to know the chassis was replaced and everything is fine. Just a small question which came to my mind when I saw the list of parts replaced. If I am not wrong the Innova is in the V trim which means it has the driver and passenger airbags. Just wanted to know if all the parts related to the airbags ( the airbags, control module and the seat belts) were also replaced and you forgot to mention them in your post. Considering the damage I guess the airbags would have been deployed and the service centre would have replaced the parts mentioned. You might ask why seat belts , well I just found them on the to be replaced parts on this website

Regards,
swamyzen

Last edited by swamyzen : 21st August 2015 at 17:30. Reason: Added the link
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Old 21st August 2015, 18:21   #296
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Really shocked to know about your car. My advice is to keep cool, and use the vehicle for your normal usage. You were using this car for quite a long while and it is performing decently, so no point in too much worrying.
You can ask the Toyota service centre to check it properly and if they are OK on it, then forget everything and move on. Don't invest more on the modification part now and keep an eye on the next release of Innova. All the best.
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Old 21st August 2015, 19:27   #297
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsh View Post
Sorry to hear about the history and rather sudden knowledge of it out of the blue. Chill out and take cool steps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kavu75 View Post
Such a shocking news. How people can do this kind of fraud? Please stay calm brother.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
Quite shocked to hear.Especially when this thread was my yardstick while i was considering a preowned Innova.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sudev View Post
Read the post twice.

While this is indeed a revelation but think again what your experience of owning and running the car had been.
Quote:
Originally Posted by swamyzen View Post
Sir I was shocked when I read your post . But good to know the chassis was replaced and everything is fine. Just a small question, the airbags, control module and the seat belts Regards,swamyzen
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbhavan View Post
Really shocked to know about your car. My advice is to keep cool, and use the vehicle for your normal usage. You were using this car for quite a long while and it is performing decently, so no point in too much worrying.
Thank you parsh, kavu75, rakesh_r, sudev, swamyzen and bbhavan. Appreciate you guys showing your concern and giving your valuable feedback. I responded to most of your queries in the earlier message. Regarding the airbags/ seat belts, at least there was no mention of these in the service records that I saw on the computer. Even I forgot to ask it to my Service Advisor, may be I can drop a mail to him and get the clarification.

With the support of all you guys here on TBHP and my other offline friends, I have absolutely been able to overcome this situation. I was enjoying and will continue to enjoy my car till such time that either of us wish not to do so. I only wish the world conducted such huge transactions with at least some amount of fairness
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Old 21st August 2015, 20:31   #298
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Shocked to read this! When I opened the thread, I was hoping it was another happy long distance trip w/ family kinda update. Least expected this.

Reading through your posts, it seems you got a NCB of 25% this Feb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
For an IDV of 5.5 lacs, I paid a premium of 15K, with a NCB of 25%.
Meaning, the last claim was somewhere between Feb'12 - Jan'13. I am trying to tie it to the insurance as the claim amount seems huge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
The repair expenses were to the tune of Rs 5.69 lacs.
You could get this checked with your SA, if it was covered by insurance. If it was, it's not as if the owner tried to repair and sell if off immediately. Also looking at the extent of repairs, it could be that the intention here was to get it back to top shape and not repair-to-sell kinda thing.

BUT, if it's not covered by insurance, then that's a concern.

In hindsight, what do you think would have raised sufficient red flags? Just trying to understand how someone can prevent such a thing.
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Old 21st August 2015, 21:39   #299
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
Shocked to read this! When I opened the thread, I was hoping it was another happy long distance trip w/ family kinda update. Least expected this.
Wish it could have been, even it was a shocker for me when the Service Adviser showed me the records this morning. He was under the assumption that I was made aware of this incident and subsequent repairs before I made the offer for this vehicle

Quote:
Reading through your posts, it seems you got a NCB of 25% this Feb. Meaning, the last claim was somewhere between Feb'12 - Jan'13. I am trying to tie it to the insurance as the claim amount seems huge.
You're right, NCB was 25% in 2015. Just doing some backward calculation, might have been 20% in 2014, 15% in 2013 and 10% in 2012. Assuming 0% in 2011 if the insurance claim was made in 2010.

Quote:
You could get this checked with your SA, if it was covered by insurance. If it was, it's not as if the owner tried to repair and sell if off immediately. Also looking at the extent of repairs, it could be that the intention here was to get it back to top shape and not repair-to-sell kinda thing.
Obviously after repairing it in 2010 the owner has used it for 4 long years and since it was not much in use finally might have decided to sell it off.

Quote:
In hindsight, what do you think would have raised sufficient red flags? Just trying to understand how someone can prevent such a thing.
I must give full 100 marks to DSK Toyota to get the car back in such a good shape even after a major accident. Red flags, well there was no way I could have noticed this unless I was told by the owner himself or I had checked the service records. In my short test drive before making the offer, the car was driving perfectly.
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Old 22nd August 2015, 01:45   #300
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Deepak, What should I say or express?
After reading your message on my Whatsapp, I logged-in to team-bhp just thinking what was the shocking discovery. Truly it was a shocking discovery to know about the previous accident. I regret sharing you the car sale link on internet in November 2014.
But per my experience and after driving your car before the bearing replacement, it appears that the work is carried out thoroughly. if you consider that you have almost run 16k kms, without any major issue except for the bearings.
DSK has a strong workforce to get the things running.
What really worries me is that if the chassis was replaced and registered onto your RC under same name, then there should have been a mention on the RC. This I am saying because I remember when we had purchased our tata estate in 1997, it had a similar issue of chassis replacement. The only difference appears is that previously the RC book was in form of a book - the old would be cancelled by red ink and new entered or updated.
But anyways, we will meet on Saturday to discuss.
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