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Old 25th August 2015, 14:42   #331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a4anurag View Post
Looks like a nice chap with honesty and no intent of cheating as per his conversation.

You negotiated at 7.35L IIRC. So fair price could be 5.5 to 6L. Reclaim 75% of what you spent on the car.
Thank you Anurag for your suggestion. True he is a genuine fellow. His relative kept him in dark and the buck was passed on to me without his notice. You are right, I had negotiated for 7.35 lacs and paid 5K on top of that for a new tyre. So total was 7.4 lacs. If I consider 6L + 75% of what I spent (i.e. 45K, it comes to 6.45L)

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
Glad to note that the owner was kind enough to consider taking back the car. I would go with what Anurag has mentioned. The 60k that you had spent,assume it that you had taken the car for rent. The car mite be trouble free but every time when you drive,you will have that feeling running in the back of your mind.
I would suggest to seal the deal if possible.
Thank you Rakesh. Yes, it was kind of surprise on hearing about the offer from him. I believe he does not want to live with this guilt that he sold off an accident car to an unsuspecting friend's friend. I am in for his offer as I don't want to risk continuing with it for the next couple of years. Only issue is to arrive at a fair value and keep the car in good condition till the time he returns back and takes it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanksta View Post
Seems to be a nice chap!!
BUT I don't see any reason for you to sell the car back to the previous owner and take a loss. what you could do is ask him to repay the amount you paid for the car(7.35) waving of the 34K spent on servicing and try removing as many accessories, that you had installed, as possible. If I remember correctly, also get that extra 5K you shelled out for those two new tires while taking the car.

Then go to a U-Trust and buy a certified Innova. IMHO even a Innova with 80-100K on the ODO is a good choice if you are buying from U-trust.
You are right Shanksta, I paid him 7.4L. Well the option you suggested, removing as many accessories as possible and put them on the car that I get from U-Trust also makes sense. However given the one year's depreciation I cannot ask him to repay the full amount of 7.4 lacs that I paid to him last November.

I quickly checked in Carwale and an Innova-V with the 2009 vintage, 66K on odo and excellent condition is demanding 7.74L (refer the picture below).

Name:  Innova V 200966K kmCarwale value as of Aug 2015.jpg
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However one cannot predict what will happen 4 months down the line. If we come at a mutually agreeable price, I will seal the deal. I will go for a small automatic hatch (maybe a Nano twist Automatic or similar car). Then wait for the 2016 Innova to be launched. If it fits the bill then go for the new Innova itself or look for alternatives. Keep the car small hatch to be used by wife/Dad. Once I sell off my Black Workhorse, there could be many options in front of me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsh View Post
This is indeed good gesture from the owner. Let us hope he sticks to his offer and considers appropriately.

What I would suggest
Your purchase cost
- fair amount of depreciation, anything agreeable between 5-10%
+ 5k for tyres
+ Cost of Accessories. I presume you won't want to take hassles of removing accessories etc, plus they are pretty new as such
+ Cost of Parts Repairs (parts cost + labor charge), Denting/Painting that you had to bear so far
+ Cost of all the other paperwork hassles, if any and pro-rata insurance

You have run happy 16k on the car. Take the servicing costs as the expenses towards that on your own as long as you run it.
That is a wonderful suggestion Parsh . I have prepared two scenarios below as per your suggestion:

Name:  Resale Price  Ideal Situation.jpg
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Name:  Resale Price  Removing Maintenance RTO charges and Insurance.jpg
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I think the second scenario makes sense. I have waived off the following charges:
  • 34K towards maintenance expenses incurred (door hinges, 2 bearings replacement, wipers, nozzles, regular service etc)
  • 15K towards insurance, as the car would be with me from Nov'14 till Dec'15
  • 3K towards RTO as those were purely my expenses to get the car transferred on my name.
If he insists on further reduction I may waive off couple of thousands, but he should not forget the condition of the car when it was handed over to me and the condition when he will take it back, there is a sea of difference . If he appreciates and values that then I don't think there will me much of an issue to come at a mutually agreeable value.

Last edited by ampere : 26th August 2015 at 00:51. Reason: Merged back to back posts
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Old 25th August 2015, 15:04   #332
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

However one more thing I have in my mind,was the repair carried out with Insurance claim?If yes couple of questions from my end-
1-The repair was done at DSK. How was the claim passed without the owner's consent?Did his maternal Uncle forge the owner's signature or the Insurance agency didnt care who was involved to cause the accident.Logically speaking the insurance company could have washed it's hands off.
2-If the owner was kept in dark,During Insurance renewal,for a 5 lac + amount the renewal amount would have been quite high,thereby raising a doubt.Contacting the Insurance company can clear this doubt.
3-I am quite surprised that the owner didn't bother to visit or check the vehicle when it was involved in an accident neither bothered to ask how much money was spent for repairs or ask for the repair bill.
4-How was the chassis number updated on the RC without the owner's knowledge?

Anyways i guess you don't need to bother much since the owner has agreed to take the car back.

Last edited by rakesh_r : 25th August 2015 at 15:10.
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Old 25th August 2015, 15:18   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
That is a wonderful suggestion Parsh . I have prepared two scenarios below as per your suggestion:

Attachment 1407222

Attachment 1407223

I think the second scenario makes sense. I have waived off the following charges:
  • 34K towards maintenance expenses incurred (door hinges, 2 bearings replacement, wipers, nozzles, regular service etc)
  • 15K towards insurance, as the car would be with me from Nov'14 till Dec'15
  • 3K towards RTO as those were purely my expenses to get the car transferred on my name.
If he insists on further reduction I may waive off couple of thousands, but he should not forget the condition of the car when it was handed over to me and the condition when he will take it back, there is a sea of difference . If he appreciates and values that then I don't think there will me much of an issue to come at a mutually agreeable value.
Superb, nicely worked out.

I too feel 2nd option seems more apt for the situation, exclude insurance, paperwork costs.

However, the parts+labor costs, if significant or otherwise also, keep added to this. Mind well, not the core Service cost (Service+Service Consumables), that is your bearing for the run of car. It may also give you more leverage across the table even if you have to negotiate further down, cut-off somethings.
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Old 25th August 2015, 15:19   #334
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post


You are right Shanksta, I paid him 7.4L. Well the option you suggested, removing as many accessories as possible and put them on the car that I get from U-Trust also makes sense. However given the one year's depreciation I cannot ask him to repay the full amount of 7.4 lacs that I paid to him last November.
What I meant was the 7.4l + whatever accessories you could remove which would be only the music system I suppose and waive of the rest. So in the end you get the base price of 7.4l back plus a music system for your auto hatch or the 2016 innova. This way you don't have to account for the RTO charges ,depreciation, maintenance cost and insurance. The option suggested by BHPian Parsh is also good. In the end either ways you'll get back ₹7.4l. Which is not bad at all.

Last edited by Shanksta : 25th August 2015 at 15:32.
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Old 25th August 2015, 16:22   #335
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesh_r View Post
However one more thing I have in my mind,was the repair carried out with Insurance claim?If yes couple of questions from my end-
Pertinent questions Rakesh there. This is the power of collective wisdom of TBHP and I really appreciate it.

Quote:
1-The repair was done at DSK. How was the claim passed without the owner's consent?Did his maternal Uncle forge the owner's signature or the Insurance agency didnt care who was involved to cause the accident.Logically speaking the insurance company could have washed it's hands off
I doubt if anyone would be able to pay such huge sum form his own pocket. While the previous owner was in Australia (when this incident happened), he had given the Power of Attorney to his father. So if the insurance was claimed his father must have definitely signed the document. So should I assume that his father was knowing about the whole incident and costs involved and he kept his son in dark, well cannot make a judgement now. Will keep my judgement reserved until I hear further from the owner himself.

Quote:
2-If the owner was kept in dark,During Insurance renewal,for a 5 lac + amount the renewal amount would have been quite high,thereby raising a doubt.Contacting the Insurance company can clear this doubt.
Even if the insurance is claimed the renewal premium would be regular only (with zero "No Claim Bonus") and not high considering the accident claims.

Quote:
3-I am quite surprised that the owner didn't bother to visit or check the vehicle when it was involved in an accident neither bothered to ask how much money was spent for repairs or ask for the repair bill.
I agree, but as mentioned earlier, if I believe his statement, then he was kept in complete darkness. He was away in Australia and was just informed that the car met with minor accident, while his maternal uncle had taken it for a wedding trip. The maternal uncle fixed the damages. Probably he is not so mad about cars like us and didn't bother to get into details, just my assumption.

Quote:
4-How was the chassis number updated on the RC without the owner's knowledge?
You have now kept your finger on the pulse. Chassis number update in RC card cannot happen without the signatures of either the owner or his PoA. Assuming he was in Australia, his father (PoA) might have signed. So definitely father must be aware of the chassis replacement, but chose not to let his son know about it. So if a father is not telling the truth to his own son, then it was really very stupid of me to have complete trust in him. Seems biggest mistake in my life till date

Quote:
Anyways i guess you don't need to bother much since the owner has agreed to take the car back.
True, but I cannot simply sit quiet, until I close the reverse deal, sell back the car to him and get my hard earned money back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parsh View Post
Superb, nicely worked out.

I too feel 2nd option seems more apt for the situation, exclude insurance, paperwork costs.
Great, thanks for the validation Parsh

Quote:
However, the parts+labor costs, if significant or otherwise also, keep added to this. Mind well, not the core Service cost (Service+Service Consumables), that is your bearing for the run of car. It may also give you more leverage across the table even if you have to negotiate further down, cut-off somethings.
Spot on mate. I did spend a significant amount to get the car back in shape (We TBHPians don't like any unwanted sounds/ issues in our cars, right?). So considering that I am taking into account the 22K spent on bearings, door hinges, nozzles etc, it comes out to 22K (leaving aside the consumables and regular servicing charges). Adding that I come to the third scenario (check out the table below). This will defintely give me some leverage at the negotiation table.

Name:  Resale Price  Removing Maintenance partially RTO charges and Insurance.jpg
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Size:  54.3 KB

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shanksta View Post
What I meant was the 7.4l + whatever accessories you could remove which would be only the music system I suppose and waive of the rest. So in the end you get the base price of 7.4l back plus a music system for your auto hatch or the 2016 innova. This way you don't have to account for the RTO charges ,depreciation, maintenance cost and insurance. The option suggested by BHPian Parsh is also good. In the end either ways you'll get back ₹7.4l. Which is not bad at all.
Exactly that is my target. Anywhere between 7.4L to 7.5L and I would be the happiest person on this earth (considering I have spent more than a lakh on accessories, maintenance, insurance etc)
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Old 25th August 2015, 16:49   #336
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Looks good. However, we can not assume anything and never know what discussions will yield, nevertheless, better be ready with workout with possibility and anticipation of worst case scenario as well.
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Old 25th August 2015, 16:56   #337
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Originally Posted by parsh View Post
Looks good. However, we can not assume anything and never know what discussions will yield, nevertheless, better be ready with workout with possibility and anticipation of worst case scenario as well.
I think I have already gone through the worst, would there be anything worse than this, I doubt? The buy back option given by the previous owner has at least given me some ray of hope. Worst case, if he backs out at the last moment (which I don't think he will), I will have to retain the car. In that case I will keep the option open for trading it with the new 2016 Innova @ Toyota U-Trust itself (even if that means selling my BW at a substantial loss)

Incidentally further details of 2016 Innova published by CarBlogIndia just now.

http://www.carblogindia.com/2016-toy...echnologies%29

Last edited by AutoIndian : 25th August 2015 at 16:57.
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Old 25th August 2015, 17:33   #338
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Hello

Going through your posts about the buy-back offer, I have a bad feeling that this was blurted out by the seller in the stress induced when the lies got caught.

I will be the most surprised person on this forum if any such return of money takes place. Even then, there will be no agreement on the value of the accessories and maintenance to be refunded. What if you hear things like : " I never asked you to fit those accessories"? " why dont you keep those accessories for your next car?" or "the car was fine when you took it, something must have happened when you were driving, so you had to replace all those bearings, and other parts?"

Please don't stretch this issue till Dec. holidays. A debtor's memory is very weak in our country.

Ask for a fair amount of refund and have it sent to your account via RTGS, NEFT, Western Union, Postal Money Order, Angadia , Hawala, anything!!!!

Last edited by john doe : 25th August 2015 at 17:41.
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Old 25th August 2015, 17:48   #339
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Originally Posted by john doe View Post
Going through your posts about the buy-back offer, I have a bad feeling that this was blurted out by the seller in the stress induced when the lies got caught.
..
Please don't stretch this issue till Dec. A debtor's memory is very weak in our country.

Ask for a fair amount of refund and have it sent to your account via RTGS, NEFT, Western Union, Postal Money Order, Angadia , anything!!!!
You beat me to it! I was wondering the exact same thing when I saw the buy-back offer. I was about to suggest AutoIndian to take as much as possible - to reduce the losses and give up this car. Don't prolong it.
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Old 25th August 2015, 18:49   #340
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Originally Posted by john doe View Post
Hello

Going through your posts about the buy-back offer, I have a bad feeling that this was blurted out by the seller in the stress induced when the lies got caught.

I will be the most surprised person on this forum if any such return of money takes place. Even then, there will be no agreement on the value of the accessories and maintenance to be refunded. What if you hear things like : " I never asked you to fit those accessories"? " why dont you keep those accessories for your next car?" or "the car was fine when you took it, something must have happened when you were driving, so you had to replace all those bearings, and other parts?"

Please don't stretch this issue till Dec. holidays. A debtor's memory is very weak in our country.

Ask for a fair amount of refund and have it sent to your account via RTGS, NEFT, Western Union, Postal Money Order, Angadia , Hawala, anything!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dry Ice View Post
You beat me to it! I was wondering the exact same thing when I saw the buy-back offer. I was about to suggest AutoIndian to take as much as possible - to reduce the losses and give up this car. Don't prolong it.
John Doe and Dry Ice, I completely understand and appreciate your sentiments. However even if I ask him to transfer the money right away, there should be some representative who can take the handover of the vehicle on his behalf. Also I will have to make an arrangement for an alternate vehicle as this is the only car that I have and use for my daily office commutes. Let me wait for a couple of days. Let me get the complete service history from DSK Toyota. Also want to hear from him the complete story, how the accident had happened and what all followed after that.

Only after this I can get to the negotiation table. Fortunately his sister is in Pune. So if we agree on a price, I can handover the car to his sister once I get the agreed money transferred to my account.
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Old 25th August 2015, 19:32   #341
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Just like you calculated, even he can calculate.

Whatif his calculation considered the cost of hiring an Innova for 16,000kms.

AFAIK it's safe to assume Rs.12/km as the going rate. Let's take Rs.10/- for your benefit. Amount totals to Rs.1,60,000/-.

Assume (mileage ~12kmpl) the cost of fuel at Rs.5/km. Amount totals to Rs.80,000/-.

Agreed that you spent Rs.60,000/- to spruce up the car, but you've used those for the past year, THAT, and consider he's accepting something that was not to his need / preference.

A prudent assumption could value those at 65%. (39k)

That's ~40k that you still have on you, which can be adjusted with the amount you spent on the service, repairs etc.

Just saying.
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Old 25th August 2015, 19:34   #342
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I don't know why, but I too cannot digest the fact that he didn't know about the accident and he is able to buy back the car easily. Something is a bit fishy here, and please be careful!

1) An accident involving a chassis replacement 'might' be a life threatening accident involving some serious injuries to the passengers and driver. How come was he not aware about such serious accident about his maternal uncle who borrowed 'his' car?

2) I am 99% sure there must be a FIR registered for the purpose of insurance claims. Try to dig it up and see if you can get that FIR from somewhere, will give you the exact details about the accident.

3) First we need to know what does he mean by 'buying back the car'. How much deduction he is expecting? Maybe he is thinking he is getting his car back in a better condition at a much lesser price? That means you paid him money for maintaining his car while it was sold to you by misrepresentation ?

4) Strip down as many accessories as you can, they'll be useful in your next car. Just deduct the depreciation and add the cost of maintenance and left accessories on the car!


I know it all sounds a bit too over the top, but I don't think this guy is a saint here.
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Old 25th August 2015, 21:24   #343
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

I called up the dealership admin dept. person today to check if he had talked to the concerned dept in TKM regarding Service History request, however did not get any response. Also dropped him a text message. May be tomorrow I will call their Customer Exec to know the status on Service History request.
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Old 26th August 2015, 02:22   #344
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Deepak, good to know that you finally received a response from the previous owner.
Based on the above discussions, I would say, keep your calculations ready and have a word again with the previous owner. If he is returning your 7.4L , then he genuinly is a great guy. Fingures crossed because people can turn back after a day on realizing their loss.
There are 50/50 chances of him knowing about the accident in detail. But let's hope for your good.
Keep us posted and let me know if you need any help.
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Old 26th August 2015, 07:12   #345
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While the previous owner has been considerate to offer buy back the question I have is : Why are you selling? If you are happy otherwise with the car. Think it through. The value of repair indicates good quality repairs within capability realm of authorised service station. If this was not so Toyota would not be selling these parts. If there is nothing else bothering you keep the car and enjoy ownership. Contrary view but needs to be evaluated.
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