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Old 26th August 2015, 10:13   #346
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

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Originally Posted by GrammarNazi View Post
Just like you calculated, even he can calculate.

What if his calculation considered the cost of hiring an Innova for 16,000kms.

AFAIK it's safe to assume Rs.12/km as the going rate. Let's take Rs.10/- for your benefit. Amount totals to Rs.1,60,000/-.

Assume (mileage ~12kmpl) the cost of fuel at Rs.5/km. Amount totals to Rs.80,000/-.

Agreed that you spent Rs.60,000/- to spruce up the car, but you've used those for the past year, THAT, and consider he's accepting something that was not to his need / preference.

A prudent assumption could value those at 65%. (39k)

That's ~40k that you still have on you, which can be adjusted with the amount you spent on the service, repairs etc.

Just saying.
Well I appreciate your point of view, but I didn't quite get your "cost of hiring" calculations. Would be better if you can put it in a spreadsheet for me and arrive at a final figure that would be a reasonable price to quote.

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Originally Posted by parth.jain View Post
I don't know why, but I too cannot digest the fact that he didn't know about the accident and he is able to buy back the car easily. Something is a bit fishy here, and please be careful!

1) An accident involving a chassis replacement 'might' be a life threatening accident involving some serious injuries to the passengers and driver. How come was he not aware about such serious accident about his maternal uncle who borrowed 'his' car?
Since he was out of India when this accident happened, I give him the benefit of doubt. If at all some cover-up has happened it is his maternal uncle who is primarily responsible and to a certain extent his father who didn't reveal to him the true story. I wonder how this guy too kept quiet and didn't dig deep into the matter.

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2) I am 99% sure there must be a FIR registered for the purpose of insurance claims. Try to dig it up and see if you can get that FIR from somewhere, will give you the exact details about the accident.
I am trying to get this information on two fronts. One, I have told my previous owner to talk to his maternal uncle and get the complete story. Two, once I get the service history from the dealership, will try to get more information about insurance claimed if any.

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3) First we need to know what does he mean by 'buying back the car'. How much deduction he is expecting? Maybe he is thinking he is getting his car back in a better condition at a much lesser price? That means you paid him money for maintaining his car while it was sold to you by misrepresentation ?
Well the "buy back" option that he tabled was out of the guilt feeling that he handed over to me an accident repaired car without prior notice to me. His intention is not to get a spruced up and restructured car. We have not discussed in the direction of car valuation. Once I share with him the service history I will initiate those discussions.

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4) Strip down as many accessories as you can, they'll be useful in your next car. Just deduct the depreciation and add the cost of maintenance and left accessories on the car!

I know it all sounds a bit too over the top, but I don't think this guy is a saint here.
I am not at all thinking in the direction of stripping the car down of the accessories that I have put. I can happily hand over the car back to him with those accessories in place provided he is ready to pay as per scenario #3 above. Saint or not, his acknowledgement of the fact that I was kept in dark about the cars history and proposal to buy back the car are signs of some positive outcome.

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Originally Posted by SHAHBAAZ View Post
Deepak, good to know that you finally received a response from the previous owner.
Based on the above discussions, I would say, keep your calculations ready and have a word again with the previous owner. If he is returning your 7.4L , then he genuinely is a great guy. Fingers crossed because people can turn back after a day on realizing their loss.
There are 50/50 chances of him knowing about the accident in detail. But let's hope for your good.
Keep us posted and let me know if you need any help.
True Shahbaaz, I will definitely involve you if there is a need. Right now I am waiting for the service history to come in my hand, which I can share with him. Once he accepts that I can start the discussions on the buy back offer.

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
While the previous owner has been considerate to offer buy back the question I have is : Why are you selling? If you are happy otherwise with the car. Think it through. The value of repair indicates good quality repairs within capability realm of authorized service station. If this was not so Toyota would not be selling these parts. If there is nothing else bothering you keep the car and enjoy ownership. Contrary view but needs to be evaluated.
Sudev, thanks for your contrary view and I would have definitely considered it but for the below mentioned three deterrents:
  • It is unclear at this moment how this accident happened, what were the damages (both material and human), was there any FIR recorded for this accident (it is a must to claim the insurance). As Parth mentioned above, was this a life threatening accident involving some serious injuries to the passengers, driver or other road users.
  • There is only one key available right now. If that key gets damaged or lost, I will have to tow the car to the workshop, replace the complete module of immobilizer, lock-set and ignition lock, which would cost minimum 35K
  • The renewed insurance still has the old chassis number (and previous owner name) mentioned on it. God forbid any accident happens and I have to claim the insurance, the insurance company can very well dishonor my claim stating the different chassis numbers. Also I will have to take the signatures of owner or his PoA (and both are out of country at this point)
I have nothing to complain about the car as such after the meticulous repairs carried out by the service center. But the above three deterrents and driving me away from holding this car for long.
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Old 26th August 2015, 13:37   #347
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
Two, once I get the service history from the dealership, will try to get more information about insurance claimed if any.
An update:

While I was driving to office some time back, I first received a call from the Admin dept. person of dealership who was trying to get my car's service history from TKM IT dept. He said that he had sent a mail and hoping to get it by today evening or latest by tomorrow morning (Remember I had called him yesterday but could not get any response). I asked him to give me further updates today evening.

Within a span of 20 minutes, while I was still at the wheel, I got a call from the lady customer exec, giving me the same status. Besides this she mentioned that their team (including the Asst Mgr, the lady herself and one more representative) would like to meet me in person (may be at my home or office) and discuss the complete car history in details. I am impressed with this customer centric approach of DSK Toyota. I mentioned that meeting at home won't be feasible as my parents are at home and they will definitely inquire what this is all about. I don't want them to get shocked after knowing the happenings in the last few days. Hence I told her that once she confirms that they have received the service history I can drive down to their workshop tomorrow and discuss all these things in details.

She also mentioned that my insurance has the old chassis number. I appraised her about the whole story. She was of the firm opinion that the previous owner must be aware of all these facts and history of the car, otherwise how would they claim insurance. No one can manage to spend 5.7 lacs on accidental repairs from their pocket. I think after meeting the team some more beans are likely to get spilled. Nevertheless I am still hopeful and really appreciate the way in which and the dealership is handling the matter .

p.s: Yesterday my better half could make out that something was wrong as I was making frantic calls to the previous owner. She overheard me talking about "car", "accident" etc. So when I reached office she poked if everything was alright and to whom I was talking in the morning. I told her to go through this thread (page#19, message#282 onwards) and I will discuss it with her in the night once I return home, however not to reveal anything to my parents. After I reached home I asked her if she could make any sense. She too was shocked to know about the car's history and could understand my situation. She has her full support behind me in the way I am handling the things .
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Old 26th August 2015, 19:30   #348
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
I told her that once she confirms that they have received the service history I can drive down to their workshop tomorrow and discuss all these things in details.
A meeting has been fixed with General Manager Service and Head Customer Relations tomorrow morning @ 10:30am at the dealership office. Hoping to get further insights into the car's service/ repair history.

Will share with you the outcome of that meeting. Most importantly I hope I can get the repairs history, so that I can share it with my previous owner and make him aware of the repairs carried out on the car.

Last edited by AutoIndian : 26th August 2015 at 19:32.
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Old 26th August 2015, 22:10   #349
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

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Originally Posted by sudev View Post
While the previous owner has been considerate to offer buy back the question I have is : Why are you selling? If you are happy otherwise with the car. Think it through. The value of repair indicates good quality repairs within capability realm of authorised service station. If this was not so Toyota would not be selling these parts. If there is nothing else bothering you keep the car and enjoy ownership. Contrary view but needs to be evaluated.
Sudev, I totally with your point, as I have driven this Innova. It works similar to my car. The only concern I feel is when this car is for resale. On knowing the facts which I am sure Deepak will inform the opposite party about the repairs, there may be less buyers or who so ever is buying it may quote less.
The only other option would be for an exchange offer with the dealership.
Let's see how it goes.
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Old 27th August 2015, 13:39   #350
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Sorry to hear about the latest developments. Hope it all works out for you.

I don't want to sound like a 'told you so' nanny, but no one should buy a used car without getting a full pre-purchase inspection done at the dealer, checking its service / repair history and verifying the claims history with the insurance company.

It's all part of our used car advice article.
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Old 27th August 2015, 14:30   #351
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

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Originally Posted by AutoIndian View Post
A meeting has been fixed with General Manager Service and Head Customer Relations tomorrow morning @ 10:30am at the dealership office. Hoping to get further insights into the car's service/ repair history.

Will share with you the outcome of that meeting. Most importantly I hope I can get the repairs history, so that I can share it with my previous owner and make him aware of the repairs carried out on the car.
Reached office some time back. I had a prolonged, one hour discussion with the senior management of the dealership (as stated above). The meeting was very fruitful. I reached there at the scheduled time @ 10:30 am and was greeted by the customer exec. However both the above personnel were busy in their prior meetings and I had to wait for 15 mins. Meanwhile I was discussing with the customer exec about the happenings in the last few days. After 15 mins both the gentlemen entered the cabin, greeted me and expressed their apologies for being late.

Before I could start my story, they assured me that I being one of their esteemed customers now, they will lend me their full support and co-operation withing the limits of TKM and dealership policies. I narrated them the whole story how I landed up with this car, how I came to know about its service history, what is the current status and the way forward. They said that as a Toyota customer and owner of the car, I have full rights to know the complete history of the car . However as per the policies I have to submit a written application, which will then be forwarded to the concerned dept, to dig out the complete history. I promptly gave them the handwritten application on the spot and took an acknowledgement for it. They said that it would take 3-4 working days. They would mail it to me by coming Tuesday, Sep 1st. I also asked them to check if any insurance was claimed and under which company policy.

Regarding the key, they told me that since the 4 digit code is not available, they cannot create a duplicate key with the same profile. However they can give me a key blank with the immobilizer chip (embedded) and I can get the profile cut from outside. Does anyone know any such key maker in Pune who can get exactly same profile?

I was very open with them and told them about my future plans with the car. I told them about the buy back option offered by the previous owner. If that does not work out then the Toyota U-Trust option, if I decide to trade in my car with the all new 2016 Innova. They clearly mentioned to me that since the deal had happened between myself and the previous owner, they cannot do much in that matter. However they assured me that now I being their customer they will give me their fullest support and co-operation within the company's policies and procedures and ensured that I will have a very satisfactory ownership experience.

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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Sorry to hear about the latest developments. Hope it all works out for you.

I don't want to sound like a 'told you so' nanny, but no one should buy a used car without getting a full pre-purchase inspection done at the dealer, checking its service / repair history and verifying the claims history with the insurance company.

It's all part of our used car advice article.
Edit: Saw your post GTO and hence replying to it now. I agree that it was a very big mistake on my part to buy a used car without getting a full pre-purchase inspection done at the dealer, checking its service / repair history and verifying the claims history with the insurance company and I am repenting for it now . Given the family background of my previous owner, he being a common friend's friend, I purely went with my instinct and trust on the words of owner's father. I didn't have the slightest inkling that I would fall a victim to the "breach of trust".

Anyway I have moved ahead and exploring various options as listed in my previous posts.

Last edited by AutoIndian : 27th August 2015 at 14:38.
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Old 28th August 2015, 00:51   #352
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

Deepak, there is one shop on M.G.road in-line to Marzorin and Karachi sweets. Kindly check it out. They provide blanks and various key holders or grips similar to the company provides.
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Old 28th August 2015, 08:48   #353
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

A quick question. Is the damage repair thorough? Is it well documented? Is the paper work legal? Are you happy driving the car? If you answer yes to all of the above, then kindly forget about this dramatic buy back and selling off etc, live with the car for the next one year, buy your dream the 2016 Innova brand new, and ensure that when you sell your current car, you inform the next buyer about this or sell to Toyota itself.

All this running around for reselling back to the original seller etc will cause more heartburn and IMO not worth the effort. As long as toyota verifies that the repairs carried out in its workshop, is structurally sound you have no cause of worries. Ask the workshop to give you such a document or ask for a vehicle inspection document.
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Old 28th August 2015, 10:55   #354
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

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Originally Posted by SHAHBAAZ View Post
Deepak, there is one shop on M.G.road in-line to Marzorin and Karachi sweets. Kindly check it out. They provide blanks and various key holders or grips similar to the company provides.
Thank you Shahbaaz for giving that info. However DSK said that they can provide me the key blank with the chip and I will have to get the profile cut from outside. So the shop that you are referring, would it have the ability to cut a profile, exactly similar to the existing key, on the blank provided by DSK?

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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
A quick question. Is the damage repair thorough? Is it well documented? Is the paper work legal? Are you happy driving the car? If you answer yes to all of the above, then kindly forget about this dramatic buy back and selling off etc, live with the car for the next one year, buy your dream the 2016 Innova brand new, and ensure that when you sell your current car, you inform the next buyer about this or sell to Toyota itself.
No issues as such with the repair work carried out. Regarding repair documentation, I am expecting to get that on 1st Sep. What do you mean by "paper work legal"? DSK Toyota won't carry out any repair work that is illegal, that is the assurance given to me by their General Manager, Service and Head, Customer Relations. I have no reason not to believe that. The car drives flawlessly, no complaints as such, but then it will be always at the back of my mind, that this car has undergone a major surgery.

Option#1:
Regarding the buy back by the first owner, that is the first option. In this case I won't have to go through the hassle of making a duplicate key, getting the insurance name, chassis number changed and most importantly he himself will be aware of the complete car history.

Option#2:
If that doesn't work out then I will retain the car till the time new 2016 Innova gets launched and trade in this car with Toyoa U-Trust themselves. This will also save me the hassles of disclosing the car history to potential buyer as that will be taken care by U-Trust. In either of the options above, there could be a financial hit, which I am ready to bear.

Quote:
All this running around for reselling back to the original seller etc will cause more heartburn and IMO not worth the effort. As long as toyota verifies that the repairs carried out in its workshop, is structurally sound you have no cause of worries. Ask the workshop to give you such a document or ask for a vehicle inspection document.
That is a good idea. If the option#1 above doesn't work then I will definitely proceed with asking the workshop to inspect the vehicle thoroughly and furnish a vehicle fitness certificate (if it is called so)

This car or that car, heartburn will always be there as cars are the matters very close to the heart
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Old 28th August 2015, 15:49   #355
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

I wouldn't bank too much on the 'Toyota U Trust' offer. Toyota claims that channel only buys accident-free vehicles.
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Old 28th August 2015, 16:28   #356
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I wouldn't bank too much on the 'Toyota U Trust' offer. Toyota claims that channel only buys accident-free vehicles.
Ohhh, I was not knowing that. Let me talk to the dealership people and get it verified. If that is the case then option#1 makes more sense, selling it back to the previous owner.
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Old 28th August 2015, 18:04   #357
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Buy-back is the only thing you should have in mind right now, AutoIndian. You should try hard to get your hard earned money back in your hand ASAP. Promises, like that made by the owner, may not be fulfilled and the entire story told by the owner might be fake. He might have came up with this idea to keep you content till December. He has clearly shifted all the blame to his uncle. You should question him about the meaningful queries raised in the above posts (How did the insurance claim get processed without his sign? How was the RC updated without his knowledge?). You should immediately proceed to giving this car back to the previous owner (or his family members) and get your money back. I highly doubt that the owner would abide by this offer in December. Selling it to another unsuspecting customer would be cheating. U Trust would not buy this car, or would not offer a good price due to the service history. A customer who knows about the history would surely walk away!

Also, I doubt whether the incident was hidden from him really. Such things are hard to hide from family, just like your wife came to know about this. Waiting for more updates with complete details about the accident.

Kudos to the Toyota team for thier support to you. But, how could the owner be unaware of all this major work (5 Lac plus for repairs) after this much customer-orientedness?
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Old 28th August 2015, 18:16   #358
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

AutoIndian, all said and done the buy back offer is good. But one thing that I refuse to accept is how the owner did not know about the 5 lakh+ rupees claim made by his father for repairs . Also I would suggest since you have got a good deal on hand just sell it back to the previous owner asap. Also I am 99% sure U-Trust will not buy the car thanks to its previous service records. Know this because when my brother was looking out for his Innova first place he went to was U-Trust and upon inquiring, he was told U-Trust buys and sells only accident free cars. Also it is the same now. Check out their website which clearly states they sell only accident free vehicles http://www.toyotautrust.in/about_utrust. All the best with the problem you have on hand.

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Old 28th August 2015, 20:02   #359
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Default Re: Toyota Innova: My Pre-worshipped Black Workhorse

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Buy-back is the only thing you should have in mind right now, AutoIndian. You should try hard to get your hard earned money back in your hand ASAP. Promises, like that made by the owner, may not be fulfilled and the entire story told by the owner might be fake. He might have came up with this idea to keep you content till December. He has clearly shifted all the blame to his uncle. You should question him about the meaningful queries raised in the above posts (How did the insurance claim get processed without his sign? How was the RC updated without his knowledge?).
All are very valid questions vin11. I am definitely going to take these up with him. I am just waiting for an opportune moment. This Saturday/Sunday I am planning to call him again and check whether he got the actual facts from his uncle (he should get these by then as it is more than a week now).

Quote:
You should immediately proceed to giving this car back to the previous owner (or his family members) and get your money back. I highly doubt that the owner would abide by this offer in December.
True, I cannot rule out the chances of this happening if I delay it further. I am just waiting for the car history to get in my hand from Toyota. As soon as I get that and share with him I will put the buy back offer in front of him.

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Selling it to another unsuspecting customer would be cheating. U Trust would not buy this car, or would not offer a good price due to the service history. A customer who knows about the history would surely walk away!
I won't sell this car to some third person without informing him the complete history and I am sure when one would know about the history he would either walk away or quote a ridiculously low price. So selling back to the previous owner seems to be the best option.

Quote:
Also, I doubt whether the incident was hidden from him really. Such things are hard to hide from family, just like your wife came to know about this. Waiting for more updates with complete details about the accident.

Kudos to the Toyota team for their support to you. But, how could the owner be unaware of all this major work (5 Lac plus for repairs) after this much customer-orientedness?
I haven't met the owner personally, but what I have heard about him from a common friend is that he is a genuine guy. I have reasons to believe that he may not be bluffing when he said that he was unaware of an accident and repairs of this magnitude.

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Originally Posted by swamyzen View Post
AutoIndian, all said and done the buy back offer is good. But one thing that I refuse to accept is how the owner did not know about the 5 lakh+ rupees claim made by his father for repairs . Also I would suggest since you have got a good deal on hand just sell it back to the previous owner asap. Also I am 99% sure U-Trust will not buy the car thanks to its previous service records. Know this because when my brother was looking out for his Innova first place he went to was U-Trust and upon inquiring, he was told U-Trust buys and sells only accident free cars. Also it is the same now. Check out their website which clearly states they sell only accident free vehicles http://www.toyotautrust.in/about_utrust. All the best with the problem you have on hand.
Thank you swamyzen for sharing the toyotautrust link. It is clearly written on U-Trust website, they deal with "Accident free vehicles". It seems I was hoping against hope that since the car is repaired at Toyota dealership only, they can give an offer for this car, though it could be on a lower side. Nevertheless I will get this confirmed with dealership management.
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Old 29th August 2015, 18:27   #360
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Any update from the owner? I hope it get resolved over the weekend for you.
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