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Old 9th December 2016, 23:35   #91
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Following are my observations, on Emission Software Update in Vento 1.5 TDI:
1) Driveability has improved especially at first gear - before update the torque was very low in 1st gear in such a way that i could not move the vehicle forward in bumper to bumper traffic and hence i will engage second gear immediately, to and fro.This changed after the the software update and now i can pull the vehicle in first gear.

2) Fuel Economy has increased marginally - around 1-2 kms/L both in city and on highways.

3) I missed the sudden surge that we all have enjoyed so far with a grin on our face, when Turbo kicks in at around 1900-2000rpm but the pull is definitely not bad. Turbo kick in this update is tuned to deliver linear power when compared to the sudden surge earlier (i could attribute this to the air flow value which is installed, which moderates the flow of air into the engine for appropriate combustion) No doubt the car is a performer on highways but I could feel that the engine is gasping for more air when you push the vehicle hard on the highway. Because the power is more linear you may need to plan during overtaking unlike earlier. Any idea if we could give it a try by removing the air control value - experts here - please share your thoughts

4) Immediately after the update there was an increase in engine noise especially when i release clutch in low gears - there was a kar kar tractor like noise audible in the cabin which was definitely not present for the past 10 months (since the purchase), but the abnormal noise automatically disappeared after the car is pushed on the highways for 750 kms.
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Old 10th December 2016, 00:58   #92
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
My friend has got his New Polo 1.5 TDI remapped from TOT recently. His car has 3 more years warranty left and he cannot do away with this update. He has to go to VW one or other day and they would definitely update.
Avoiding the update would be very difficult for everyone, So one has to go through it, Best way currently seem to be to get the car updated and then remapped.

Quote:
TOT has told him to get the update done and they would remap again without any extra charges.
That's something really good that TOT offers.

Quote:
When he goes to TOT, they will take a read again. I am very interested to see what VW has done with the map.
Indeed i am very interested to know the details, Maybe we will have the details soon.

Quote:
Majority of the guys abroad have reported "No change" post update. But there are few guys who have claimed loss of power, more clutter etc.
Its a mixed bag reading reports after the update in the international market, Also have to keep in mind specially the 2 TDI comes in several power output internationally so can't really rely on those blindly.

Quote:
TOT has already done quite a few cars post software update. I just had a word regarding the same. They have compared the maps and said that VW has "lowered/detuned" maps in various sectors. Difference wouldn't be prominent under normal driving. But if you time the car or dyno it, obviously it wouldn't be as fast or powerful as before.
I can totally agree to what they are trying to say, Under normal city driving the notice is very minimal which i feel most of the people won't notice (There was a reason VW kept the lower end almost similar but changed the mid and top end knowing most of the Indian car's anyways spends time in traffic and in city, Its only when it comes to enthusiasts like us that we notice such changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vishy76 View Post
A very comprehensive report indeed tanveer sir. I am eagerly awaiting the remap of your car. Even I had the car recalled and feel the same symptoms. The engine gets very vocal past 3000 rpms. One question though.
Thank you, I am glad it helped you, Yes the engine gets vocal after 3000 rpm and feels restricted to make progress quick.

Quote:
Is there any change on the highway when it comes to the cruising ability?
As far as I remember the Jetta does 1650-1700 rpms at 100 kph. Any changes in these figures?
Exactly what graaja said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
The RPM vs. speed depends on the gear ratios in the gear box. A change to the engine map will not affect this. So, if the car cruised at 100 at 1700RPM, it would do the same post remap as well.

As the low end performance seems unaffected, there should be no difference in power delivery while cruising at 100.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
@Tanveer : I had missed to ask you this question. Did you ever time your car, 0-100 or in gear acceleration before the update? If so, please do a run in present tune to compare.
Cheers!!
Unfortunately, I drove the car only for a couple of days and decided to switch my XUV till i get the jetta remapped, Since i really did not enjoy driving the jetta anymore, Also i am getting a remap much early than expected, But i maybe able to pull off some details, Will surely try if i can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandharamanp View Post
My Vento's ECU was updated with emission fix when i went in to get the strud mounting replaced under warranty without any information to me by Kun VW.
Yes they are not asking the customers for a go ahead with the update, They are directly doing it since its a mandatory update for every car.

Quote:
when i serviced my car after a month, for 15K service in Sundaram VW, the SA told me that when they plug in the vehicle to their system it will automatically provide an alert to them if the vehicle does not carry the emission fix. hence i assume it will be a one time fix if you continue to run the vehicle without any remapping but if you perform any remapping there may be an update on emission fix in your vehicle anytime you leave your vehicle for service.
I can understand what your SA said, I can probably believe him as well, Since every time a car visits the service centre a scan of the car is done and thats when a pop up comes up if the car is not updated, You can't scan the car is the car is not updated, Even though my SA said its just a one time process i doubt it. I will try and fetch some more details about it.
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Old 10th December 2016, 06:21   #93
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandharamanp View Post
when i serviced my car after a month, for 15K service in Sundaram VW, the SA told me that when they plug in the vehicle to their system it will automatically provide an alert to them if the vehicle does not carry the emission fix. hence i assume it will be a one time fix if you continue to run the vehicle without any remapping but if you perform any remapping there may be an update on emission fix in your vehicle anytime you leave your vehicle for service.
Oh man. That could be a problem. If the whole update thing is an automatic process where the computer at VW workshop compares the map in the car with the map the car is supposed to have and automatically update the map, it is going to be a pain to get the remap (Pete's or ToT or Code6 or any other) done every time after the car comes out of service.
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Old 10th December 2016, 10:22   #94
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by graaja View Post
Oh man. That could be a problem. If the whole update thing is an automatic process where the computer at VW workshop compares the map in the car with the map the car is supposed to have and automatically update the map, it is going to be a pain to get the remap (Pete's or ToT or Code6 or any other) done every time after the car comes out of service.
The diagnostic tool wouldn't "compare" the maps and automatically update. If would update only if there is any update/fix for the particular car. The diagnostic tool usually looks for the software version/VIN to check for updates.

During a remap, the tuner uses tools like Alientech or CMD. These tools actually hack into the ECU. Best part is most of the times, these tools read only engine parameter related maps and the tuner makes changes and flash back the same. It's not like the software gets changed post remap. The tuner will make only required changes on specific maps or sectors. Doing this, the routine diagnostic tool at service centres cannot detect the change in map automatically. But if you know what to look for, detecting a remap is not at all difficult
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Old 10th December 2016, 12:25   #95
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
*SNIP*
TOT has already done quite a few cars post software update. I just had a word regarding the same. They have compared the maps and said that VW has "lowered/detuned" maps in various sectors. Difference wouldn't be prominent under normal driving. But if you time the car or dyno it, obviously it wouldn't be as fast or powerful as before.
I understand how a dyno would show the difference pre- and post-update. I would however, like to see how the difference manifests itself on the highway.

My TDI DSG was updated without my consent or without my even being informed beforehand, but I have yet to take it out on the highway to see if there is any difference. I would also like to hear from others who drive the DSG (Jetta) on what changes they see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by anandharamanp View Post
My Vento's ECU was updated with emission fix when i went in to get the strud mounting replaced under warranty without any information to me by Kun VW.

when i serviced my car after a month, for 15K service in Sundaram VW, the SA told me that when they plug in the vehicle to their system it will automatically provide an alert to them if the vehicle does not carry the emission fix. hence i assume it will be a one time fix if you continue to run the vehicle without any remapping but if you perform any remapping there may be an update on emission fix in your vehicle anytime you leave your vehicle for service.
My car was updated at one service centre, and I asked another service centre to check if the update had been done. They checked their database and said it was done. I asked if they actually checked the car itself. They said they do not do that, they only check the database.

Cheers

Last edited by tilt : 10th December 2016 at 12:27. Reason: various typos and un-correcting stupid autocorrect!
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Old 10th December 2016, 14:09   #96
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Guys have confirmed properly with my friendly service advisor, Once the car is updated, It gets recorded in their database and thats it! Even after getting a remap we 99% shouldn't have the issue of getting it updated again, So that pretty much sums it, Get the car updated and then remapped and we are good to go.

On a side note : Dropped my car at Pete's for a remap, Will get it either by today evening if they can unlock the ECU here itself or after a week if they will have to send it over to cochin to unlock it, Awaiting confirmation about the power output aswell.
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Old 10th December 2016, 15:38   #97
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Updates are not compulsory unless you are under warranty and even then it would be because VW can wave the warranty stick against you. If you are out of warranty insist that the update is not done.

Updates are important only when there is an identified problem with engine parameters that are sought to be rectified through the update, otherwise it really wouldn't affect the performance of the car.
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Old 10th December 2016, 17:41   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
Updates are not compulsory unless you are under warranty and even then it would be because VW can wave the warranty stick against you. If you are out of warranty insist that the update is not done.

Updates are important only when there is an identified problem with engine parameters that are sought to be rectified through the update, otherwise it really wouldn't affect the performance of the car.

Very true, but this is a recall passing under the guise of an update. I'm sure there's political and regulatory pressure to get it done, anyhow. Short of not sending the car to them, I don't see how it can be bypassed as they're actively looking to get the update done on as many cars as possible.

The claim is that the update gets done compulsorily even before any diagnostics can be done. Not sure how far that's true, but that's the spiel being given.
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Old 10th December 2016, 21:37   #99
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
Guys have confirmed properly with my friendly service advisor, Once the car is updated, It gets recorded in their database and thats it! Even after getting a remap we 99% shouldn't have the issue of getting it updated again, So that pretty much sums it, Get the car updated and then remapped and we are good to go.

On a side note : Dropped my car at Pete's for a remap, Will get it either by today evening if they can unlock the ECU here itself or after a week if they will have to send it over to cochin to unlock it, Awaiting confirmation about the power output aswell.
That's really a great if they do the mapping once. Eagerly waiting to get updates from you after remapping
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Old 10th December 2016, 21:40   #100
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Any reliable ECU remapping centers in Chennai, Pls suggest.
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Old 10th December 2016, 21:42   #101
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtles View Post
The claim is that the update gets done compulsorily even before any diagnostics can be done. Not sure how far that's true, but that's the spiel being given.
Diagnostics other than checks for any recently identified issue (such as recalls) can be done offline secure from any updates. It is the recording of the service carried out by the ASS onto the DMS that requires an online connection.

So, cars under warranty will not be able to bypass the update as it would be the first check and task to be carried out as soon as the car is logged into the system to record the service.

For non warranty vehicles, an offline diagnostics check is all that is required.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:07   #102
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

On Saturday, we took Tanveer's recalled Jetta & my brother's stock / cheating Jetta to KS Motorsport's dyno. Big thanks to Tanveer for going out of the way & coming with his car .

Unfortunately, the visit was inconclusive. Reason = VW's smart software fraud detects the car is on a dyno (as the rear wheels are stationary) and drops into 'cheat' mode. This has been reported internationally too. A 4-wheel dyno would solve this, but the only publicly accessible dynos are 2-wheel ones.

Tanveer's recalled Jetta on the dyno:
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-1.jpg

My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-2.jpg

Karan Shah running the test:
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-3.jpg

My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-8.jpg

A 2-wheel dyno, unfortunately. A 4-wheel dyno would've separated the wheat from the chaff:
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-4.jpg

No smoke even at 5,100 rpm! Not even an ounce!
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-5.jpg

Result of the Blue Jetta (recalled):
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-5a.png

My brother's Jetta all buckled up. Both the Jettas are single-hand driven for 33,000 - 35,000 km, running on stock tyres, so they are directly comparable:
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-6.jpg

5,100 rpm!
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-8a.jpg

Result of the Silver Jetta (NOT recalled). Apparently, the software detects that the car is being tested (2-wheel dyno) and drops into 'cheat' mode. Lower power ratings!
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-8b.png

A Del Sol being tuned. 280 horses on the dyno from its n/a 2.4L engine:
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-9.jpg

Small footprint, manual, hydraulic steering - what else do you want in life?!
My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!-10.jpg

Until we get a 4-wheel dyno, the following post sums up our conclusion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
VW Recall's Software Update Review.

I had sent my car in for an ABS sensor issue, While the car was there the SA asked me if i wanted to go for the update for my car, Thinking about it i finally decided to go for it since i have already planned for a remap of the car next week, So basically my car would be updated in their system and it won't be recalled once i have remapped my car, The update took a good amount of time, More than a day, Reason told was the VW's servers were running slow since the ECU is updated directly from Germany.

Now i sat in the car, Started the car and instantly i could feel the the engine starting in a more silent way, Good sign? Perhaps, Drove around 250 kms after the update, 1st and 2nd gear under 3k RPM seemed normal, Engine has become even more smoother and refined, But thats where all the good things end! Push the car and you will feel the engine being restricted in some sort of way, It isn't pulling anywhere close to where it was before, Drivability becomes worst in 3rd gear, From 2800 RPM in 3rd gear the car seems to progress like a Naturally Aspirated engine which has a CVT Gearbox!! The progress is slow and the engine feels restricted, The acceleration has become really really linear and from 3rd gear onwards there isn't any kind of turbo pull felt. If i had to put a number of the HP that i feel the car has lost, It would be somewhere around 10-15 HP! Fuel Efficiency has improved as well, Sure the engine feels very smooth and refined now, But seems power has been affected (As i expected) & Jetta is nowhere as fun to drive as before, Got the free kit along with it, Thats nothing in return from VW when compared to the difference they have made in my car.

I will be getting the car remapped by Pete's in the next week, Next update once the car is remapped.

Last edited by GTO : 12th December 2016 at 11:09.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:34   #103
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Very good effort by GTO and Tanveer

Yes, few articles claimed that VW cars would enter cheat mode on dyno. Reasons cited were stationary rear wheels, ECU picking up data from various sensors, steering movement etc.

Since we do not have access to AWD dyno, the only other option is to time both Jetta's.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:35   #104
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

The peak torque is showing less than 250 for both the cars. So does it mean the Jetta produces only that much at the wheels or is it due to the cheat mode? or am i missing something ?

Last edited by Mohan Mathew A : 12th December 2016 at 11:36.
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Old 12th December 2016, 11:56   #105
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
On Saturday, we took Tanveer's.......
......Until we get a 4-wheel dyno, the following post sums up our conclusion:
This is hilarious. Just amazing how such a big company could make a monkey out of major government organisations.
On another note, I was at KS a couple of days ago. The DelSol is the retrospective analogue of the Toyota GT86 for sure.
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