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Old 12th December 2016, 12:08   #106
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Tanveer, Gto
Thank you very much for the efforts put, really appreciate it.

I have been getting calls from VW ASS almost every week to get the update done. The lady informed me that they have been instructed by VW to get the update done anyhow by end of December. The statement has been consistent during all the calls.

From what I have read so far, the update is carried out from VW's sever at Germany.
Is there any chance that VW's server will stop checking for the update after December?

The update is carried out in phases across different regions. Once they're done with the updates in our region (India), they might restrict the servers to check for the update (after December?). This will definitely save them some $$$ on the extra servers they might have leased for the emission fix update.

Also, if they're confident that every car would be updated once it visits the service station, they might not be putting so much efforts in the recall, especially when there is no lawsuit/political pressure in our country and the cars meet the emission standards as well.

Just a theory, without any proof but wouldn't hurt to avoid the update for next 20 days.

Edit: Just received a call from Automark Ahmedabad workshop manager a few minutes back (I guess this shows how keen they are for the update). I fed them false information that the car is in Bangalore right now and won't be coming back until Christmas. He insisted to get the car updated at Bangalore's VW workshop (This eliminates dealer's commission/advantage in the update). Free pickup/drop service was also offered. When I told him that next service is due in March and they might be able to update the car during service, he stumbled for a moment and then said 'Okay'.

Last edited by bhavik.1991 : 12th December 2016 at 12:26.
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Old 12th December 2016, 15:00   #107
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohan Mathew A View Post
The peak torque is showing less than 250 for both the cars. So does it mean the Jetta produces only that much at the wheels or is it due to the cheat mode? or am i missing something ?
Since the car was definitely in cheat mode, None of the results of both the Jetta's could be trusted.

Also, Thanks GTO for a detailed post, I was more than happy to come down
Guys who are confused about getting the update done, Either today or tomorrow when you send the car to the service centre your car would be updated eventually, For now it seems getting the car updated and making use of the pete's Christmas offer and remapping your car seems to be the best bet.

On the other hand, Confirmed it with Petes, My car would be remapped according to the stock power output of my car (140 HP/320 Torque) My car is at Pete's along with bhpian iliketurtles jetta, (Yes both car's were detuned recently by VW) Both of our car's ECU has been sent to cochin for the remap, Expecting to get the car back by thursday, Will let you guys know how the car is driving after the remap, Pete's has quoted a power output of 190bhp and 400 NM of Torque.
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Old 12th December 2016, 15:46   #108
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
On the other hand, Confirmed it with Petes, My car would be remapped according to the stock power output of my car (140 HP/320 Torque) My car is at Pete's along with bhpian iliketurtles jetta, (Yes both car's were detuned recently by VW) Both of our car's ECU has been sent to cochin for the remap, Expecting to get the car back by thursday, Will let you guys know how the car is driving after the remap, Pete's has quoted a power output of 190bhp and 400 NM of Torque.
Wow..that's huge gain!! 140 bhp to 190 bhp with just a remap . Kryptonite had to put a bigger turbo and stage 2 remap to achieve 200 BHP from stock 140 BHP on his Laura. Are you planning to dyno again post remap? Petes Christmas offer is a steal indeed.
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Old 12th December 2016, 15:58   #109
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

The snap that you have posted of the instrument cluster of your sibling's Jetta shows the speedometer topping off at 280kms/hr. I have seen this on other Jetta cars built/sold in & prior to 2015. IIRC the older version of the car and for sure those built in 2016 have their speedos topping off at 260kms/hr.

Could this be related to the cars built in 2016 are coming with detuned engines from the factory itself. While buying my Jetta in October this year the dealer was adamant that the cars built in 2016 are not effected by the "cheat device". What's your take on this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
On Saturday, we took Tanveer's recalled Jetta & my brother's stock / cheating Jetta to KS Motorsport's dyno. Big thanks to Tanveer for going out of the way & coming with his car .
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Old 12th December 2016, 16:04   #110
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
The snap that you have posted of the instrument cluster of your sibling's Jetta shows the speedometer topping off at 280kms/hr. I have seen this on other Jetta cars built/sold in & prior to 2015. IIRC the older version of the car and for sure those built in 2016 have their speedos topping off at 260kms/hr.
What's the connection between speedometer marking and detuned engines? I guess it's just a different instrument cluster. Stock or detuned or remapped Jetta would never ever touch 260 or 280 KMPH. It's just the number shown on speedo and doesn't mean car would touch that speed .
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Old 12th December 2016, 16:07   #111
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Detuned = Lesser Power = Lower top Speed (actual & indicated).

As owners with s/w updated cars are reporting there is a loss of power in the mid and high RPM range & that is where the engine would be operating when being run at top speed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Naren View Post
What's the connection between speedometer marking and detuned engines? I guess it's just a different instrument cluster. Stock or detuned or remapped Jetta would never ever touch 260 or 280 KMPH. It's just the number shown on speedo and doesn't mean car would touch that speed .
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Old 12th December 2016, 16:11   #112
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by khoj View Post
Detuned = Lesser Power = Lower top Speed (actual & indicated).

As owners with s/w updated cars are reporting there is a loss of power in the mid and high RPM range & that is where the engine would be operating when being run at top speed.
I am not sure if I understood what you are trying to say. My point is speedo marking of 260 vs 280 is not at all significant because the car would never touch those speeds. All the cars have speedo marked at higher values than what the car is capable of doing.
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Old 13th December 2016, 09:55   #113
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
Since the car was definitely in cheat mode, None of the results of both the Jetta's could be trusted.

Thanks. While GTOs's brother's car is in cheat mode what is clear is that in the case of your car after the SW upgrade (after which there is supposed to be no cheat mode and just one standard mode) car produces significantly less torque than the claimed 320NM.

Assuming that all the new cars come with by default this mapping shouldn't VW be updating the specs.
Makes me wonder how they can get away with still claiming 320Nm?
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Old 13th December 2016, 12:07   #114
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

NYT article on how US VW users are getting a handsome cash settlement while all non-US VW owners are being force-fed a restrictive SW/HW update:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/16/bu...ettlement.html
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Old 13th December 2016, 20:05   #115
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanveer_2558 View Post
Since the car was definitely in cheat mode, None of the results of both the Jetta's could be trusted...
...400 NM of Torque.


Hi Tanveer,

A bit of advice needed. My Jetta was last serviced on 10-Dec-2015 (1st 15K km/ 1st year service). Currently, my car has run less that 21K kms, and given the software update scare, I am sceptical of sending my car to VW.

I wanted to know? how anal is VW when it comes following dates and all. As my car has the additional 2 year extended warranty.

Secondly, is it possible to avoid the update this time around, and then deal with it during my next service, which based on my limited usage should happen around December 2017.

Thanks.

Last edited by maglev : 13th December 2016 at 20:08.
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Old 13th December 2016, 22:01   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maglev View Post
Hi Tanveer,

A bit of advice needed. My Jetta was last serviced on 10-Dec-2015 (1st 15K km/ 1st year service). Currently, my car has run less that 21K kms, and given the software update scare, I am sceptical of sending my car to VW.

I wanted to know? how anal is VW when it comes following dates and all. As my car has the additional 2 year extended warranty.

Secondly, is it possible to avoid the update this time around, and then deal with it during my next service, which based on my limited usage should happen around December 2017.

Thanks.

My 2 cents, since I was almost in the same boat as you a few weeks back.

The only real way to avoid the update is through either

A) a circumlocutive process that exists, but isn't explained by VW even if you prompt them

B) you know the service advisor very well and he helps you bypass this update

VW is very anal about this and it's very likely that they will consider your warranty void if you skip this (any little pretext helps to avoid a warranty claim). They're aggressively trying to get as many cars as possible updated, so it's unlikely your Jetta will escape their gaze once it's in.

You inevitably have to send the car in for a service, else your warranty is void. Inevitably, they will also patch your ECU with this update.

Your best bet is to do what Tanveer and I did and get the car remapped after this update was applied. It's either that or live with there car in its hamstrung state.

Hope this helps.
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Old 14th December 2016, 10:39   #117
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

I really wish that performance figures of cars under recall are validated legally, prior to the recall and the company be taken to task if the update meddles with it. They should label themselves as universal cheats if they are doing it to individual customers, apart from fouling with the overseas regulators.
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Old 14th December 2016, 12:14   #118
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

My Jetta has gone for the software update today at B U Bhandari. Will post details here once I get it back. It is out of warranty and I think I could have probably avoided the update this time, but you never know what will happen at the time of the next service, so it seemed rather inevitable.

If the experience is anywhere near as bad as other reviews are suggesting, then I am planning to get it Pete'd at Mumbai. Can't live without that kick*** torque!

Dear @Tanveer_2558 and @iliketurtles - I understand your cars are getting remapped as I am writing this. Eagerly looking forward to your reviews.

Last edited by MandarMax : 14th December 2016 at 12:16.
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Old 14th December 2016, 13:11   #119
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
My Jetta has gone for the software update today at B U Bhandari. *snip*

If the experience is anywhere near as bad as other reviews are suggesting, then I am planning to get it Pete'd at Mumbai. Can't live without that kick*** torque!
Any excuse to get that remap done, eh? You won't find any arguments from my side.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
It is out of warranty and I think I could have probably avoided the update this time, but you never know what will happen at the time of the next service, so it seemed rather inevitable.
Time to find a reliable, high quality independent garage then. It's a bit of a challenge, but I reckon the best option for all future service requirements once the car is out of warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandarMax View Post
Dear @Tanveer_2558 and @iliketurtles - I understand your cars are getting remapped as I am writing this. Eagerly looking forward to your reviews.
In fact, Pete's Kochi put up a photo of our ECU's on their Facebook page on Monday, so the ECU's should be en route to Mumbai if it isn't here already. Tanveer, another buddy of ours and I are planning to go for a leisurely/spirited (depending how you see it) drive this weekend, so rest assured we'll definitely be posting our thoughts shortly after that.

Personally, I've been without the car for almost 10 days, and I can't wait to get her back.
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Old 14th December 2016, 13:51   #120
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Default re: My VW Jetta Highline TDI - Tempest Blue. EDIT: Now sold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtles View Post
Any excuse to get that remap done, eh? You won't find any arguments from my side.
Yep

Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtles View Post
Time to find a reliable, high quality independent garage then. It's a bit of a challenge, but I reckon the best option for all future service requirements once the car is out of warranty.
Indeed it's a challenge. The challenge is less to find a reliable garage but to find a skilled one. German cars tend to be complex and while any average mechanic can do things like oil and coolant change, you need a specialist for vehicle diagnostics and to resolve any other problems. Secondly, I don't think it's easy to find spares / replacement parts for an independent garage, so we HAVE to depend upon the authorised service centres.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iliketurtles View Post
Personally, I've been without the car for almost 10 days, and I can't wait to get her back.
Cool. Waiting for the review!
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