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Old 29th October 2015, 11:08   #211
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
Yes I did.

I completed the waxing and then applied the Scratch Remover compound in small, long doses on the 3-4 scratches the rear had acquired in the past month or so. I couldn't discern any changes to the waxed layers after applying it under direct sunlight, and the scratch removing compound filled up the scratches quite nicely.
A wax coat is not visible to the naked eye. As I mentioned earlier, a scratch remover is an abrasive or remover. Forget wax, a scratch remover removes paint. We are not talking of visible to the eyes. A normal paint thickness is 100-150 microns thick. When you buff the paint using a machine it removes probably a couple of micron at the worse case. Plus yours is a white car which will never show the same results. Secondly, I saw a few Creta's and was really disappointed by the paint finish. Never seen so much Orange peel on a factory paint. My neighbour has a white one and I noticed orange peel on that vs my 6 year old Corolla parked next to it.

So by applying wax first then applying the scratch remover, you removed the scratches along with the wax which you applied. There's no way even a little bit of wax will remain after a scratch remover.

Second thing; the worse thing to do is wax a car under direct sun light. Again the wax is useless if applied under the sun or when the body panels are hot. You can get away by using simple products such as ultimate wax which is designed to buff off easily. But a pure wax under hot sun = impossible to remove and will mar the paint finish.

http://www.meguiarsonline.com/forums...ect-sunlight!-!!

http://www.carsdirect.com/car-mainte...ld-temperature

Quote:
Maybe it was not immediately apparent but might show in a few days' time. I shall keep a keen eye out for any/all changes to the applied areas. I hope the areas don't become too abrasive and rough to the touch.
Don't worry what you did won't cause any damage or make the paint feel rough. Car paint is very difficult to damage by hand application. Only thing is you wasted the time and effort of applying the wax as you removed it later on. lol.

I just read another thing in your post about using PlastX. Can you confirm you use PlastX on the black side cladding? Is it this one:

http://www.meguiars.com/en/automotiv...leaner-polish/

Again this product is not meant for black plastic side cladding. The gel is an abrasive to buff clear plastics such as headlights. Not meant for use on matt black plastics.

The one you should be using on side claddings is http://www.meguiars.com/en/automotiv...ltimate-black/

Hope you don't mind Raven. Just helping out to correct the basics of detailing. In the long run with the steps you followed you will do more damage to the paint than good.
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Old 29th October 2015, 15:25   #212
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
A wax coat is not visible to the naked eye. As I mentioned earlier, a scratch remover is an abrasive or remover. Forget wax, a scratch remover removes paint. We are not talking of visible to the eyes. A normal paint thickness is 100-150 microns thick. When you buff the paint using a machine it removes probably a couple of micron at the worse case. Plus yours is a white car which will never show the same results.

So by applying wax first then applying the scratch remover, you removed the scratches along with the wax which you applied. There's no way even a little bit of wax will remain after a scratch remover.
Nope, the wax layer is not visible to the naked eye. What I said was that I was checking if the Waxpol compound left any rough or abrasive layers to the touch.

One of the main reasons why I got the Waxpol tube was because it was recommended glowingly by quite a few detailing shops around here. They said that it will completely hide the scratches and keep them hidden permanently, unless someone deliberately tackles the scratch sections and tries to pry it out.

Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7717.jpg

If it is causing damage to the car paint itself, I won't use it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Secondly, I saw a few Creta's and was really disappointed by the paint finish. Never seen so much Orange peel on a factory paint. My neighbour has a white one and I noticed orange peel on that vs my 6 year old Corolla parked next to it.
The orange-peel effect is pretty much a given in most cars these days. Good quality OEM paint jobs are restricted to Ford, Fiat & Volkswagen only. Most, if not all, Japanese & Korean cars have half-decent paint on them which are of inferior quality. Honda was the only exception but since the introduction of the 2014 City, their paint quality has also deteriorated.

Also, Hyundai was never known to give good quality paint jobs on any of their cars. I have seen the paint shine go down several notches and lose it's sheen within 2-3 years of ownership. The Metallic shades lose their shine faster than the normal shades!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Second thing; the worse thing to do is wax a car under direct sun light. Again the wax is useless if applied under the sun or when the body panels are hot. You can get away by using simple products such as ultimate wax which is designed to buff off easily. But a pure wax under hot sun = impossible to remove and will mar the paint finish.
I do all the detailing in the cool shade of my garage. I can't stand even 5 minutes in the blazing sun, forget 2 hours! One of the main reasons why I got the garage space of our home extended with plenty of free space.

Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7715.jpg

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Don't worry what you did won't cause any damage or make the paint feel rough. Car paint is very difficult to damage by hand application. Only thing is you wasted the time and effort of applying the wax as you removed it later on. lol.
Thanks. I was a bit worried since I read your last reply but now I feel a bit better. The shade doesn't look any different, but has acquired a nice shine which wasn't there before I detailed it. Even though the Polar White shade is a non-metallic one, Lazarus now shines brightly under sunlight. From some angles, it's difficult to see him directly because of the glare.

There were only 3 significant scratches on the rear boot door (2 of them were semi-circular, 1 was straighter), and 1 minor scratch near the chrome belt on top of the rear number-plate. Only these parts received the Waxpol treatment - the rest of the car has been polished and waxed only.

But like I said above, if the scratch removing compound will damage the paint in the future, I shall cease to use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
I just read another thing in your post about using PlastX. Can you confirm you use PlastX on the black side cladding? Is it this one:
Yes it is the PlastX.

The detailing shop in my city uses it (and Ultimate Black) for cleaning all plastic parts of the cars brought there. He mentioned that Ultimate Black works the best, but since it was not available with him, he gave me this one saying that this will also do a great job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Again this product is not meant for black plastic side cladding. The gel is an abrasive to buff clear plastics such as headlights. Not meant for use on matt black plastics.
I shall get the Ultimate Black one then, when it is available. But the PlastX did a great job of cleaning the stubborn mud stains which had stuck to the black plastic cladding on the lowest part of the doors & the undersides.

Other Creta owners are struggling to get these particular sections completely clean, with a thin layer of fleshy brown mud still showing even after hours of cleaning/detailing. I used up almost half of the bottle, but the end-result was a squeaky clean underside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vid6639 View Post
Hope you don't mind Raven. Just helping out to correct the basics of detailing. In the long run with the steps you followed you will do more damage to the paint than good.
Not at all, Viddy. We live and learn. And I am learning from the best!

I am currently posted in a God-forsaken place in the middle of nowhere, with nobody to guide me. So I am my own teacher and student too at the same time. No other Team-BHPians (or friends who are good at detailing) live nearby (nearest ones are 300+ kms away in all directions).

I am glad you took some time out and clarified these points. If I wasn't so fussy about scratches, I would have just got a scratch-removing pen and marked away on my Lazarus's body to glory!

Thank you so much. I am much indebted.

On a side note, here's my 3-year old who has made the rear seat her permanent snug home!

Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7716.jpg

Last edited by RavenAvi : 29th October 2015 at 15:30.
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Old 2nd November 2015, 12:24   #213
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Lazarus & me completed dual trips in two different directions yesterday - first in the morning to a military base somewhere near the borders of the Odisha/C.G states, in deep jungles and complete solitude, and then during mid-day we all proceeded to an impromptu trip to Dantewada, home and abode of Maa Danteshwari, the resident Mother Goddess of the entire Bastar region.

The trip to the military base was through some really bad stretches of road, and I have to say Lazarus maintained his composure and dignity really well. We were 4 in the car and even then Lazarus showed minimal fuss with the Hyundai machine tackling the potholes, pebble-stricken stretches, dusty and muddy roads equally well.

No doubt it would have been a welcome relief for my steed when I returned home and picked up my family for the short trip through the National Highway. I maintained speeds of between 80-90 kmph and the whole to and fro journey was done in 5 hours' flat, and we were back home just as the sun set.

No nasty surprises anywhere, and the ABS did it's job perfectly when I had to dive into panic braking to avoid crashing into a pig which suddenly decided to cross the road without any real purpose.

For the first time, Dad nodded his approval at the comfort he felt during this entire trip. He had words of praise for Lazarus and the composure the Korean showed on the open roads. Probably the first time he had complimented a Hyundai in his entire life, which adds a huge testament to the Creta, specially since Dad is seriously old-school and values engine power and in-cabin comfort over everything else.


A short pictorial:


Mother Nature reminding us that there's a real world out there, beyond the confines of the concrete jungle all around us.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-untitled.jpg

A sight to behold!
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7728.jpg

Greenery, silver-grey clouds and the roads.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7730.jpg

Favourite angle #1.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7731.jpg

Favourite angle #2.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7733.jpg

At the temple of Banjaran Mata, midway through the journey.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7734.jpg

My little Princess doing her bit to promote Dantewada tourism.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7738.jpg

Princess in front of the Maa Danteshwari temple premises.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7740.jpg

The Shankhini river which flows through the town.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7746.jpg

This river merges with the Dankini river somewhere ahead. The spot is called the Triveni Sangam.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7747.jpg

Princess done with her sight-seeing. Time to return.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7748.jpg

Last edited by RavenAvi : 2nd November 2015 at 12:26.
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Old 3rd November 2015, 15:14   #214
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Hi Raven, I have also booked a white beauty and expecting delivery in couple of days. I have received chasis number from the dealer, its 17 characters, whereas if I follow T-Bhp VIN decoding, it says Hyundai comes with 22 characters. Since I am 250kms away from my dealer I could not physically verify, although dealer says that its the correct info which he has given. Can you clear the air on this? Thanks
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Old 3rd November 2015, 21:36   #215
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Originally Posted by formel_eins View Post
I have received chasis number from the dealer, its 17 characters, whereas if I follow T-Bhp VIN decoding, it says Hyundai comes with 22 characters.

Can you clear the air on this? Thanks
Hello formel_eins,

Congratulations on booking the Creta. All Hyundai cars come with 19-character VIN numbers. Dealers are given dispatch lists which have 17-character VIN numbers, and the additional 2 VIN characters can be found under the driver's seat, when it is slid backwards.

The 10th character of the VIN number represents the manufacturing year, while the 19th character represents the month. (LINK (ARTICLE: Find your car's date of manufacture (VIN)))

Ask your dealer to provide you the last 2 digits of the VIN by checking under the driver seat of the car allotted to you. The 18th character of the VIN number is usually an asterisk (*), followed by an alphabet which, when decoded, shows the month of manufacture.

All the best!

------------------------------------------------

Lazarus endured his first ever puncture earlier today - a screw of about an inch's size got embedded in the rear tyre on the right (driver's side). I suspect it happened yesterday night when I was returning home, when I felt that that particular tyre looked slightly more flatter than the usual tyre depression.

As soon as I reached office in the morning, the tyre showed it's puncture symptoms. Come lunch time, and I was off to the nearest tyre shop to get it fixed.

Thank goodness for tubeless tyres. The whole puncture fixing experience lasted less than 10 minutes.

Cost to wallet - 80 bucks.
Together with checking and topping up air in all 5 tyres - 100 bucks.

The embedded screw.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7765.jpg

Getting it pulled out with a set of pliers.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7767.jpg

The culprit.
Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7769.jpg


ODO is nearing 2,700 kms. Loving the Creta experience so far.
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Old 21st November 2015, 21:59   #216
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

UNEXPECTED SAD MOMENT!

Lazarus took a hit when I was backing out of my garage couple of days back (on Thursday, noon time).

Due to the lashing rains down south, the weather here had turned very windy for those few days, and on Thursday the wind had picked up and was really thundering around, despite sunny skies above. It was time for me to go pick up my little Princess from her school, so as usual I prepared to step out.

Now, the parking space portion on the right side of my house is flat, and there's a slope from the entrance door of our home to the gates, and so leading into the road in front.

Here's a shot to give you an idea (taken on Diwali night):

Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7830.jpg

The winds were lashing the gates really badly and the one on the left moved out slowly, so I put a flat rock under it to keep it steady and fixed in it's place. I started backing Lazarus out from my parking space, keeping a keen eye on the reverse camera view. Just as I crossed our entrance threshold, the slope started and Lazarus picked up a bit of speed. By some sheer bad coincidence, at that exact moment, the left gate (the one which I had secured with a flat rock), apparently hit by a ferocious gust of wind, suddenly swung right into Lazarus's path!

Thinking back, I remember nothing of the leftmost sensor warning me with any beeping, nor did I see the left gate swing into Lazarus's path in the reverse camera view. Maybe my attention was more concentrated towards the road as I started to come near it, to hear if any vehicles might be crossing behind me when I backed out.

Anyway, the result?

An extremely loud and sickening THUD! which resonated right through Lazarus and pierced through my heart! Immediately I knew what had happened. I moved forward a bit up the slope, applied the handbrake and stepped out to assess the damage.

The rear quarter panel (housing the fuel cap) had crumpled up, and the rear-left portion of the bumper had borne the brunt of the impact. The inside housing between the bumper and the metal panel, which held the locks of the bumper, had broken in two places and those two plastic parts fell out of under the bumper section one after the other. The bumper itself was cut right through in a small semi-circular area where the left gate's locking channel had hit it.

Luckily, the left tail lamp escaped this injury with some scratches, which has left it intact (no doubt due to it's high position).


Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7854.jpg

Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7855.jpg

Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call-img_7856.jpg


I think the car took the impact quite well, since it was quite a jarring crash I had experienced.

Brought my little Princess home, then drove to the local Hyundai dealership for assessment of repair.

They said that the housing clip inside the bumper needed to be replaced, the metal quarter panel needed denting & painting, and they suggested to me to get the rear bumper replaced (the portion in white which was cut by the gate).

The total bill would come to around 10,000/-, including rear bumper replacement. If I didn't get the rear bumper replaced, bill would be around 8,000/-. If I claimed insurance, I would be liable to pay around 2,000/-. A quick calculation showed that whatever I lost via no NCB next year, I would be gaining in the claim. Plus-minus situation.

I told them to order the new rear bumper and the housing. I also decided against claiming insurance for this work and pay in cash. Since it's a new car, I am not taking a chance of getting it done from outside although I have a good idea that it might be cheaper.

The replacement parts arrive on Monday. The dealership has promised to deliver Lazarus back to me by Monday evening. The metal rear quarter panel work was completed today. Bumper replacement might take some time until Tuesday evening or even Wednesday, since they have to receive the item and paint it in 3 coats, which needs sufficient time.

Sad moments for all of us. Hopefully we shall see Lazarus back in full health by Tuesday evening.

ODO is nearing 3,000 kms. The last fuel fill-up has yielded around 12 kmpl inside the city, with ACC on all the time.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 21st November 2015 at 22:03.
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Old 21st November 2015, 22:18   #217
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That is bad hit! That must've been a really strong gust of wind to do that kind of damage. Pains to see this kind of damage.
Looking forward to your update on Monday and pics of Lazarus all shiny and new!

Regards,
Shanksta
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Old 21st November 2015, 22:46   #218
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Sad to know about the damage Avinash :( I have gone through that moment how it feels when something like this happens. Even though the damage on my car was less compared to yours I could not sleep properly till it was fine, hence I can understand your feelings too.

Wish your car is back soon and you come out of the situation quickly.
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Old 21st November 2015, 22:57   #219
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
UNEXPECTED SAD MOMENT!

Lazarus took a hit when I was backing out of my garage couple of days back (on Thursday, noon time).
Avi, very sad to see your Lazarus in that situation. Wishing him a speedy recovery. Iron gates, poles, barriers etc are enemies of our beauties. So have to be extra careful about them.
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Old 21st November 2015, 23:12   #220
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Avi sorry to read about the incident. I am sure the worst is over and you will be having thousands of happy miles ahead. I know how it feels when one's beloved vehicle gets damaged. It hurts really bad. Anyways it was just plain bad luck the gate moved when you were just backing out on the road and must have really hit hard judging from the impact.

Last edited by sumeethaldankar : 21st November 2015 at 23:13.
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Old 22nd November 2015, 13:43   #221
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
UNEXPECTED SAD MOMENT!

Thinking back, I remember nothing of the leftmost sensor warning me with any beeping, nor did I see the left gate swing into Lazarus's path in the reverse camera view. Maybe my attention was more concentrated towards the road as I started to come near it, to hear if any vehicles might be crossing behind me when I backed out.

I am very sad to hear about this incident. I recall going through a similar experience when getting out of my sister's apartment with my Honda city. The guard opened the gate and pushed it out. But as I was crossing the gates, it rebound into my car crashing into the back lights and scraping off the rear bumper. :(

Coming to your the sensors, they are usually slow to respond, if you have noticed. It takes a second or two for them to actually detect the obstacle in its path. For instance, if you park your car next to a gate and swing it quickly close to the car, it will be a second or two before the warning beep comes out. Same thing will happen if you walk briskly towards the rear bumper with the car in reverse.

Most parking sensors are designed to catch the obstacle when you are backing up very slowly. Thin obstacles coming in between the parking sensors will be missed or even slower to detect. I am not sure how many have observed this, but if you are backing up into a road and a pedestrian comes by, you will almost always get the full warning and not the intermittent beep that signifies a near obstacle.

so it's not that you were not concentrating, it's a sluggish system that added to an already taxing situation for the owner of the car.

Hope she recovers soon and we will hear more about her!

Last edited by sudeepg : 22nd November 2015 at 13:45.
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Old 23rd November 2015, 07:10   #222
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Oh. Sorry to hear about the incident. That first bang can really be painful. Hope the car comes back soon.
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Old 23rd November 2015, 08:34   #223
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post
UNEXPECTED SAD MOMENT!

[/left]
Dear Avi,

Sorry to hear that Lazarus had a minor brush. It is really heartbreaking to see your baby getting bruised.

I am sure with your attention for detail, he will be as good as new in coming days.

BTW, which dealership?
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Old 23rd November 2015, 08:46   #224
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Quote:
Originally Posted by RavenAvi View Post

Lazarus took a hit when I was backing out of my garage couple of days back (on Thursday, noon time).
Hey RavenAvi really sorry at the state of your Lazarus, but having experienced the Hyundai after sales, we both know your stead will be restored back to its original glory in a jiffy.

I am sure you have thought about this but just a small suggestion from my end. I had a similar incident during my first car ownership and an incident almost mirrors yours where I damaged the rear of my Santro.

Ever since, I always ensure to back my car into the parking/garage. This must help you both while parking your car and entering the road on your way out
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Old 23rd November 2015, 22:49   #225
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Default Re: Lazarus: 2015 Hyundai Creta SX+ 1.6L Petrol - Discovering my true call

Thank you so much for the wishes, guys. Really heartening to see your words of encouragement during this gloomy period.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeepg View Post
Coming to your the sensors, they are usually slow to respond, if you have noticed. It takes a second or two for them to actually detect the obstacle in its path.
Now that you mention this, Sudeep, I have noticed it. Actually, more than once. Need to be extra careful and pay more attention from now on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sudeepg View Post
Most parking sensors are designed to catch the obstacle when you are backing up very slowly. Thin obstacles coming in between the parking sensors will be missed or even slower to detect. I am not sure how many have observed this, but if you are backing up into a road and a pedestrian comes by, you will almost always get the full warning and not the intermittent beep that signifies a near obstacle.
Indeed! You are absolutely spot-on, my friend.

Ah, the wonders of modern technology. Even if it keeps getting better and better but it still isn't quite there yet, is it?

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Originally Posted by sudeepg View Post
so it's not that you were not concentrating, it's a sluggish system that added to an already taxing situation for the owner of the car.
And it couldn't do much about such a sudden, unexpected occurrence. The camera view might have saved me, had I paid minute attention to it, and had my reflexes kicked in half a second earlier.

Come to think of it, the sensors never beeped until AFTER the collision.

The whole incident is a constant reminder of backing out very, very slowly when reversing out of a garage space, specially if there's a slope involved.


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Originally Posted by nkghai View Post
BTW, which dealership?
Shivnath Hyundai, Colonel sir.


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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
Ever since, I always ensure to back my car into the parking/garage. This must help you both while parking your car and entering the road on your way out
Thanks, Vicky.

If the parking/garage space was on an even level with the road outside, it would be easier to back into it. But my parking space is after a considerable slope. Someone had suggested in my Silver Pegasus ownership thread that I shouldn't be backing up in an upward direction, as it puts undue stress on the engine.

Plus, it's easier for me to drive into my garage space than back into it.

But, lesson learnt and precaution taken. I have asked for tower bolts to be fitted into the base sections of both gates, and holes will be drilled on the floor in the extreme sections of the tiled ground where the gates swing open - that way the gates will hold their places and won't spring any more nasty surprises in the near future (hopefully!).


UPDATE :- The rear bumper hasn't reached the dealership yet. They inquired from their main depot at Raipur in the evening and got confirmation that it will be dispatched tonight. Hopefully it should be here by tomorrow, and get properly prepped with 3 full coats by Wednesday. Two more days for Lazarus at the dealership. To compensate for this delay, they offered me a free car wash session before releasing Lazarus back to me.

Last edited by RavenAvi : 23rd November 2015 at 22:51.
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