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Old 22nd January 2016, 13:56   #121
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

We shouldn't be bringing up the Kizashi in an S-Cross thread. However since the water has already been polluted, here are my 2c. I loved the Kizashi overall as a well engineered, reliable product. It was probably the best looking Suzuki ever and also the best looking D-Segment car launched ever in India. The 2.4 petrol engine was really tractable and the drive train was the best in its segment in manual form. The CVT was rubbish with way too much rubber banding. That engine really needed a double clutch gearbox. Also in India, they didn't offer the really awesome AWD option that was available in North America. I was there as well when the above Kizashi was bought by Bluu.

I agree with Sandeepmohan that the interior plastics left a bit to be desired for a car costing north of 20lacs. The surfaces were not soft touch, there were some sharp edges and overall the plastic quality appeared to be pretty rough. I'd have replaced my Cedia if not for the interior. IMHO even a Civic has better quality interiors than a Kizashi. It was as if the designers who built the foundation did a spectacular job but were let down by others who built the insides. Also the entire interior was a sea of beige which I absolutely loathe - maybe this was the reason for my bias. In comparison, no offense to anyone but the S-Cross interiors are much much better in terms of plastics.

Last edited by reignofchaos : 22nd January 2016 at 13:58.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 14:33   #122
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

Kizashi - Big car feel, Without doubt better handling than the A4 and the C, great high speed stability - stable at any speed that the 2.4 was capable of because the chassis was engineered to handle larger evens, had all the ingredients for a fantastic car, let down only by the badge, bad marketing and pricing, 3 X reliability of most other cars, very pricey spares.

S Cross 1.6 - Good upto 140 kmph after which the engine and chassis don't feel as comfortable as it should, Big car feel, reasonably good interiors and plastics, torque looks better on paper, drive the 32 Nm Octavia manual and you'll feel shortchanged in the power department, Good Reliability.

Rapid 1.6 - Does not have big car feel, excellent on highways, incredible FE, torque feels a lot more than the 32 Nm on S Cross, brakes could be better, is a highway - only car - using it excessively in the city is not advisable, on good roads can keep up with bigger Germans with ease. Fun when you see the FE figures after a very fast run.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 16:11   #123
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

Mi10, Would love to hear your opinion on the ergonomic front of the S-Cross. Do you find it any easier to drive? You mentioned that the ABC pedals were better spaced in the Rapid but in my experience with a friend's car, I found the central console to be a huge hindrance to driving the car. My knee used to brush against it and that was irritating if I was wearing shorts also because of the driving position, I was never able to rev-match on my downshifts with the steering wheel then coming in the way. Got very irritated with the car over a few weeks and both my friend and I felt his old Fabia was much more fun to drive as it never had these flaws and also for some reason the chassis felt more balanced on the Fabia by the time we ran the tyres into slicks, drifting a fwd hatch had never been more fun Miss the Fabia and still feel that the Polo even in its latest avatar cannot hold a candle to the Fabia (might just be me)

Last edited by IshaanIan : 22nd January 2016 at 16:16.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 17:26   #124
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Mi10, Would love to hear your opinion on the ergonomic front of the S-Cross. Do you find it any easier to drive?

Got very irritated with the car over a few weeks and both my friend and I felt his old Fabia was much more fun to drive as it never had these flaws and also for some reason the chassis felt more balanced on the Fabia by the time we ran the tyres into slicks, drifting a fwd hatch had never been more fun

Miss the Fabia and still feel that the Polo even in its latest avatar cannot hold a candle to the Fabia (might just be me)
I was just stopping by to read the updates on Mi10's thread, but couldnt resist Logging in and writing this reply:

I am a Fabia TDI guy, and had test driven the S-Cross.
Vis-a-Vis the Fabia, i found the Suspension of S-Cross a notch or two above the Fabia suspension, and i could not feel any thuds and undulations on really bad stony patches, unlike a typical Jap Car. (it was developed jointly by Suzuki and Fiat, read on Wiki).
"Flickability" of the S-Cross would not be as easy as a Fabia while overtaking, cause you feel there is a bulbous body behind the drivers seat, as you drive, while the Fabia sticks close to you, and can develop the required torque for you to be able to Overtake, and zoom past the slow movers. I am not touching the BHP or Torque comparision of the two, but the confidance comes easy with the Fab Fabia.
Driveability of the Fabia as you said @Crossbreed(R), is the best in Fabia, in my three years I have covered 70K kms on the Expressway and the Ghats after Belgaum towards Karwar/Goa, and it has been Fun chasing all kinds of Inventions on 4 wheels. Fabia gives me a whole 100 times the confidence to put it through anything, provided you exercise reasonable Caution, and know your limits.
Yes, I feel no other hatchback or Premium Hatch can come close to the Fabia.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 17:54   #125
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

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Originally Posted by yogesa View Post
I was just stopping by to read the updates on Mi10's thread, but couldnt resist Logging in and writing this reply:

I am a Fabia TDI guy, and had test driven the S-Cross.
Vis-a-Vis the Fabia, i found the Suspension of S-Cross a notch or two above the Fabia suspension, and i could not feel any thuds and undulations on really bad stony patches, unlike a typical Jap Car. (it was developed jointly by Suzuki and Fiat, read on Wiki).
Yes definitely S-Cross' suspension is far more matured (I suppose you pay for that too ). It is rare to find a Japanese car that sorts undulations with such ease and applause must be given to Suzuki for ensuring that the Crossover delivers on the promise of tackling the rough stuff and for Maruti for tuning it well for Indian roads (hated what they did with the Ciaz's suspension). Apart from using the multijet motors, Fiat has no part to play in the S-Cross's creation. The only other relation they have to the SX4 line is that they helped design the older first generation SX4 crossover.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 18:11   #126
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Congrats buddy!! When are you planning for remap? I had read in code 6 fb page that they have 150 bhp/395nm map for 1.6 S Cross
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Old 22nd January 2016, 18:34   #127
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
S Cross 1.6 - Good upto 140 kmph after which the engine and chassis don't feel as comfortable as it should, Big car feel, reasonably good interiors and plastics, torque looks better on paper, drive the 32 Nm Octavia manual and you'll feel shortchanged in the power department, Good Reliability.
Comfortable in what sense ? Yes the engine gets noiser at higher RPMs (above 4k), but there is power till upto 4.5k. I strongly believe that the Engine and the chassis is capable of doing much more than the number you have stated. However, my hands are tied hence can't post the stats to back up my claims.

Yes the 320 Nm of Octavia is a measurement at Wheel (like most VAGs ). When you compare to the S Cross which is most probably measured at crank! We will know the actuals, once i put one on a Dyno, but i think it should be around 290-300 Nm @ Wheels


Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post

Rapid 1.6 - Does not have big car feel, excellent on highways, incredible FE, torque feels a lot more than the 32 Nm on S Cross, brakes could be better, is a highway - only car - using it excessively in the city is not advisable, on good roads can keep up with bigger Germans with ease. Fun when you see the FE figures after a very fast run.
The Feel of Torque might be a tad better than S-Cross because:
  • Rapid is lighter than S Cross by 70 Kgs
  • Torque is under rated in its Specs. For example my stock rapid got 280 Nm at wheels (against a (under)rated 250 Nm).

See pic below

Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!-rapid_dyno.jpg
Stock: 109 HP and 284 Nm @ Wheels

Its is the Acceleration and Mid range which are segment best (along with Vento). However, the top end performance of Rapid remains within the C-Segment Sedan class only, whereas the S Cross is a definitive threat to the D-Segment sedans - atleast some of them.

On the S Cross - Just have little more patience. I will put her on the Dyno and then we'll see where we can take it from there.

Last edited by Mi10 : 22nd January 2016 at 18:39.
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Old 22nd January 2016, 18:59   #128
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IshaanIan View Post
Mi10, Would love to hear your opinion on the ergonomic front of the S-Cross. Do you find it any easier to drive? You mentioned that the ABC pedals were better spaced in the Rapid but in my experience with a friend's car, I found the central console to be a huge hindrance to driving the car. My knee used to brush against it and that was irritating if I was wearing shorts also because of the driving position, I was never able to rev-match on my downshifts with the steering wheel then coming in the way. Got very irritated with the car over a few weeks and both my friend and I felt his old Fabia was much more fun to drive as it never had these flaws and also for some reason the chassis felt more balanced on the Fabia by the time we ran the tyres into slicks, drifting a fwd hatch had never been more fun Miss the Fabia and still feel that the Polo even in its latest avatar cannot hold a candle to the Fabia (might just be me)
Ergonomically it is far accomplished than the Rapid. Let me explain the areas where i have experienced real world usability between the two cars.

The Center Console: I used to rest the side of my knees on the Rapid - No, not out of habit, its because there was less space! In Longer drives (>250 kms) this is a pain, as one needs to constantly move the left leg to avoid the pain. However, it may not be of huge issue to shorter drivers.

Center Arm Rest: The Rapid Arm rest is completely useless for the driver. You cannot shift, to 1 /3 /5 gears if you are resting your elbow there. I always lifted that up when i drive - so that arm rest is as good as it is not there. The Arm rest in S cross offers two positions and both are very functional. You can shift all 6 gears with elbow placed in the arm rest.

Pedal Spacing: The Rapid is better off because the S Cross has a Dead Pedal (which kind cramps up the room between the Clutch and dead pedal). However the spacing between B and A is good - almost same as Rapid.

Gear Lever: Both Rapid and S Cross are equally good. Rapid has a shorter throw and is also a more precise. S Cross is neutral in throw, but is also notchy during downshifts in lower gears (Maybe things might improve after few thousand Kms is yet to be seen)

Driving Position: The S Cross sits a tad high and the seats are also bit high - make them easy to drive in city. Rapid is proper sedan and in bumper to bumper traffic, you better be sure of your nose!

Viewing Angle: The Rapid has a superb angle of the windshield and offers zilch glares or reflections although the interiors sported a Begie-Brown Combo. The S cross has all Black interiors, however the 11 AM / 1 PM sun does produce some reflections. Not as bad as say the first gen i10, but they are ..well, irritating sometimes.

Last edited by Vid6639 : 22nd January 2016 at 20:40. Reason: as requested
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Old 24th January 2016, 16:38   #129
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Comfortable in what sense ?
Comfortable in that the stability of the car after 140 kmph doesn't give you confidence to go faster.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
We will know the actuals, once i put one on a Dyno....

Feel of Torque might be a tad better than S-Cross because...
When you compare car performance, Dyno charts are of academic value at best. It's the real world situation that's relevant, and the 3rd and 4th gear slogs are most appropriate and this is it:

20 - 80 kmph in 3rd gear:

S Cross 1.6 - 12.36 seconds
Rapid 1.6 - 8.78 seconds

Difference - 3.58 seconds

40 - 100 kmph in 4th gear:

S Cross 1.6 - 13.26 seconds
Rapid 1.6 - 9.78 seconds

Difference - 3.48 seconds

And that's why the feel of torque is a bit more than tad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
However, the top end performance of Rapid remains within the C-Segment Sedan class only, whereas the S Cross is a definitive threat to the D-Segment sedans - atleast some of them.
The Rapid 1.6 and the S Cross 1.6 have the same top speed of 186 kmph. (Both are manufacturer figures.) But you're right, a car with a torque of 32Nm should have a top speed of D segment sedans and that's why I say that S Cross figures look exciting on paper. I was initially interested in 1.6 because it gave the Octavia's torque at around 8-9 lakhs less, until I drove it.

Incidentally, I am close to 6 feet but haven't found any discomfort in long distance drives in the Rapid. Most of my drives are > 500 kms. But I guess this is individual specific.

Happy Motoring!

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 25th January 2016 at 12:56. Reason: Rapid's 40-100 time edited as per RP
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Old 24th January 2016, 21:26   #130
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post
When you compare car performance, Dyno charts are of academic value at best. It's the real world situation that's relevant, and the 3rd and 4th gear slogs are most appropriate and this is it:
Yep, i agree standalone Dyno charts wont add any value. Its only when one can marry its real world performance to actual graph, both have potential to become an elevated and illuminating experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post

20 - 80 kmph in 3rd gear:

S Cross 1.6 - 12.36 seconds
Rapid 1.6 - 8.78 seconds

Difference - 3.58 seconds

40 - 100 kmph in 4th gear:

S Cross 1.6 - 13.26 seconds
Rapid 1.6 - 9.78 seconds

Difference - 3.48 seconds

And that's why the feel of torque is a bit more than tad.
IMO, It is more to do with gearing. Like i have already stated the taller gearing in S Cross, doesn't really help in its Acceleration. One of the reasons the S Cross puts up a below par 0-100 timings.

Also, the Torque is peaky and not linear. This surely has an effect on in-gear acceleration. For Example, The Ford Aspire in spite of having a smaller turbo and lesser mill, will be stupendously fast in 40-100 dash (3rd and 4th gear runs)

Will have to see how to work around in during the remap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeyronSuperSprt View Post


The Rapid 1.6 and the S Cross 1.6 have the same top speed of 186 kmph. (Both are manufacturer figures.) But you're right, a car with a torque of 32Nm should have a top speed of D segment sedans and that's why I say that S Cross figures look exciting on paper. I was initially interested in 1.6 because it gave the Octavia's torque at around 8-9 lakhs less, until I drove it.

Incidentally, I am close to 6 feet but haven't found any discomfort in long distance drives in the Rapid. Most of my drives are > 500 kms. But I guess this is individual specific.

Happy Motoring!
The Overdrive 6th Gear in Turbo Charged cars does have a small advantage in maxxing out at top.

All said, a Tuned Rapid, if properly driven, can make a full meal out of any Stock D Segment car.

Last edited by FlyingSpur : 25th January 2016 at 12:57. Reason: Rapid's 40-100 time edited as per original quoted post
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Old 24th January 2016, 21:55   #131
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Default re: Crossbreed® | Mi10's Maruti S-Cross 1.6 DDiS 320 - Remapped!

Since Rapid and S-Cross performance are more or less the same we can finally switch to the final and last factor of owing a car - RELIABILITY.

You know the answer.

Next.
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Old 25th January 2016, 13:21   #132
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Default Re: Interlude | A Stitch in time

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Hi,
I havnt said this out loud to myself yet, but it seems that I am getting the same steering vibration at about ~145 and above. Mine is the 1.6 Alpha and is on stock tyres and alloys, so I had attributed it to bad tyres, or wheel allignment issues, and didnt even bother to ask anyone about it, since I wanted to change the tyres anyway.
Help Needed!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
I did some speed runs yesterday and yes there is some sort of vibrations that creep in high speed.

It is not a rattle, but it is a sort of a mild vibration that is felt only in Steering also, the entire car did sound a very noisy (however i think this is accentuated due to my tyres - Hankooks are noisy tyres)

So you are not alone. I will reconfirm after few more miles on my odo. I will do a deep dive on this issue when time permits.
Hi
Any updates on this behaviour? Any information would be helpful for my buying decision.

Regards
Balaji
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Old 25th January 2016, 17:15   #133
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Default Re: Interlude | A Stitch in time

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Hi
Any updates on this behaviour? Any information would be helpful for my buying decision.

Regards
Balaji
Haven't got a chance to check, most probably will have to wait till Feb second week, as my office duties are keeping me chained :(
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Old 25th January 2016, 17:20   #134
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Default Re: Interlude | A Stitch in time

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Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Haven't got a chance to check, most probably will have to wait till Feb second week, as my office duties are keeping me chained :(
Thanks for the quick response. I am just contemplating between 2015 and 16 models. Even though this particular issue mentioned here shouldn't be the decider, still I wanted to make sure, I am not going with a known bug (I am a software engg )
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Old 25th January 2016, 17:23   #135
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Default Re: Interlude | A Stitch in time

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mi10 View Post
Haven't got a chance to check, most probably will have to wait till Feb second week, as my office duties are keeping me chained :(
Sorry for being late to the party. Heartiest Congratulations for writing such an awesome ownership report. Still haven't read the whole thing, but loved each and every bit of whatever I have been able to read till now.

Since you have upgraded to 17 inch wheels, did you face any issue when putting the 17" wheel in the boot?? Also, have you upgraded all 5 wheels or just 4??

Regards,
Shashi

Last edited by Leoshashi : 25th January 2016 at 17:25.
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