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Old 9th November 2006, 14:24   #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
Only time will tell how it is going to do. Pre-launch, it looked like it would be a cakewalk for Verna, and all competitors (except NHC) would fall by the wayside with NHC also seeing a big drop in sales. But after seeing the car in the flesh and how things are going, I would not bet on it. The car seems to be blessed with a good powerful engine. But then, FE, a crucial factor that decides the fate of cars in the Indian market is still not known.

The NHC does not sell only because of the FE. Other things in its favour are city drivability, the Honda brand image, the legendary Honda quality/reliability etc. Superior FE is just a bonus.
Verna will ofcourse have its own healthy sales whether its lesser or higher figures than NHC. This is due to the good service levels of hyundai plus the cheaper spare parts costs.

About the FE the Verna CRDi has a better FE than Honda City and lower costs. The price difference between the two is not too wide. So for those whose primary concern is FE may look at the Verna CRDi plus they'll get a mind blowing performance as a bonus. Reliability of Diesel engines have also improved much that they're now equivalent to Petrol Engines.

Verna Petrol doesnt have the FE advantage of City. Hyundai cars are now as reliable as Honda or Toyota cars. Have made vast improvements. The refinement of Verna Petrol has been named the best in the segment. Low speed ride comfort of both Verna models has also been said best in the class which is actually a problem with Honda cars. Performance of Verna Petrol is definitely better than Honda City. In short the most striking victory of City over Verna Petrol is FE only. Verna is the better VFM allrounder with more features including safety features. Both cars aren't 100% perfect.

Then the Honda Brand Image problem. In Japan, where Honda cars are made BMW, Merc etc enjoy a higher social status among people than Japanese cars. Same is the case in Europe and countries like USA. Toyota and Honda made separate names and different vehicles named as Acura, Lexus to obtain that coveted brand image factor. It's only in India that Honda enjoys such a brand image. Hyundai has to adopt a similar strategy if it wants to attain a similar brand image.

Last edited by adarsh76 : 9th November 2006 at 14:27.
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Old 9th November 2006, 14:38   #317
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After speaking to the sales & a technical person in a Hyundai showroom, I get the feeling the car is rushed to the market. Reasons:
1. Service center doesn't have much expertise with Verna - they have to still contact the factory and get it sorted for any defect.
2. Accessories are not stocked - again have to be fetched from factory. So waiting period for customers. In fact the price of most accessories are not available.
3. ABS - dealer cannot commit on this. Few people who had booked ABS version, cancelled their booking and booked non-ABS ones. In fact the dealer is not sure whether ABS Verna has indeed rolled out from the factory. He gave me March 2007 as likely date for ABS in Verna.

Regarding discounts: I feel Verna is a car that let out to the market by Hyundai like a wild horse. Owner doesn't care what happens. May be they will review after 2 years (like they did for Getz, Elantra, Sonata) and knock 1.5 Lakh of the price.

Only reason people are not complaining is due to the large Hyundai network, cordial sales and service personnel. Its nearly 2 months old car and Hyundai should have had everything ready.
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Old 9th November 2006, 14:43   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76
Verna will ofcourse have its own healthy sales whether its lesser or higher figures than NHC. This is due to the good service levels of hyundai plus the cheaper spare parts costs. About the FE the Verna CRDi has a better FE than Honda City and lower costs.
I would wait for the market reaction (and time) instead of betting on it. Also, I do not remember reading on the forum any member mentioning FE figures for the Verna (petrol or otherwise). Would be helpful if you could indicate the figures along with the source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76
Then the Honda Brand Image problem. In Japan, where Honda cars are made BMW, Merc etc enjoy a higher social status among people than Japanese cars. Same is the case in Europe and countries like USA.
That's not really news, is it ? Even in India, just like the world over, BMW/Merc enjoy much more snob value than Jap cars. Nobody disputed that. The discussion here is about 2 brands having offerings in the same segment and as to who enjoys a better brand image. And if you believe that a Hyundai enjoys the brand image of a Honda (in India or worldwide), then you must be either naive or kidding.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 9th November 2006 at 14:45.
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Old 9th November 2006, 17:11   #319
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its got good stuff under the hood and inside the cabin...but boy does the fron't look bad. the only bad thing about it I guess. and knowing the indian mindset they'll go for the looks before anything else, so not sure if it'll be that big of a hit.
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Old 9th November 2006, 17:43   #320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
I would wait for the market reaction (and time) instead of betting on it. Also, I do not remember reading on the forum any member mentioning FE figures for the Verna (petrol or otherwise). Would be helpful if you could indicate the figures along with the source.

That's not really news, is it ? Even in India, just like the world over, BMW/Merc enjoy much more snob value than Jap cars. Nobody disputed that. The discussion here is about 2 brands having offerings in the same segment and as to who enjoys a better brand image. And if you believe that a Hyundai enjoys the brand image of a Honda (in India or worldwide), then you must be either naive or kidding.
Verna CRDi as per Autocar has a mileage of 12.6 in city and 16.8 in highways. Overdrive has quoted higher figures. I forgot the figures. It's in the latest edition. Generally Autocar quotes a more authentic figure than Overdrive.

And there are 2 persons I know who purchased Verna CRDi. They both haven't checked city and highway separately but said that they're getting an average (both city & highway combined) of 15+ kms/l. Now I cant check that deeply.

I guess I've never said Hyundai enjoys the brand image of Honda and personally I dont want them to enjoy that image at all. Why because then hyundai may also follow the ridiculous high pricing strategies once they get that brand image and the option of VFM car will go with it. The name "Hyundai" doesn't have much of a brand image but their model names "Accent", "Sonata" especially the old Sonata enjoys a certain degree of brand image.
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Old 9th November 2006, 22:14   #321
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Personally, comparing Honda City and Verna Diesel, I see City as a very good car with a good mileage, and very good brand image, I would say it is a trusted brand.
Regarding Verna diesel, it is a car with a better engine, slightly better or matching fuel efficiency (but greater VFM as it is diesel) and matching specs as of Honda, but not so hi-fi brand for less price... Given the two, I would prefer Verna only. This is just my personal opinion. Also, from my personal experiences I feel that branded versions "need" not be superior always.
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Old 10th November 2006, 09:41   #322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76
Verna CRDi as per Autocar has a mileage of 12.6 in city and 16.8 in highways.
From what owners report on the forum, the NHC delivers 13 in city and 16-18 on highways. If so, I am not sure whether it is VFM to go diesel. But then, per litre price of diesel is cheaper. So it might make sense after all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76
because then hyundai may also follow the ridiculous high pricing strategies once they get that brand image and the option of VFM car will go with it.
If and when Hyundai does attain that image, it would be foolish not to charge a premium, because that is the way the market works. A seller while pricing a product, does not do a simple math of adding up all input costs, slapping on a basic profit and arriving at the selling price. There are lots of other factors taken into account like presence/lack of competition, snob value of the product, user perception of the price, brand image etc.

Today when Honda leads the C-segment pack even with higher price, imagine how stupid it would have been on their part if they had priced it lower ?

OT: Anyone has FE figures for the Accent CRDi, to have a comparo with the Verna ?

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 10th November 2006 at 09:57.
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Old 10th November 2006, 09:43   #323
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Edit : Sorry, mods. Posted twice by mistake. Please delete this post. Thanks.

Last edited by supremeBaleno : 10th November 2006 at 09:57.
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Old 10th November 2006, 10:10   #324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremeBaleno
From what owners report on the forum, the NHC delivers 13 in city and 16-18 on highways. If so, I am not sure whether it is VFM to go diesel. But then, per litre price of diesel is cheaper. So it might make sense after all.

If and when Hyundai does attain that image, it would be foolish not to charge a premium, because that is the way the market works. A seller while pricing a product, does not do a simple math of adding up all input costs, slapping on a basic profit and arriving at the selling price. There are lots of other factors taken into account like presence/lack of competition, snob value of the product, user perception of the price, brand image etc.

Today when Honda leads the C-segment pack even with higher price, imagine how stupid it would have been on their part if they had priced it lower ?

OT: Anyone has FE figures for the Accent CRDi, to have a comparo with the Verna ?
Mileage of Honda City in city driving is 10.7 and in highways 16.7 as per Autocar. If we're go it with that figures Verna CRDi has a better mileage. Also considering that CRDi is a diesel engine fuel costs are much lesser. So for FE the Verna CRDi wins comfortably over City. And for performance the City is nowhere near Verna CRDi.

As the second hand car prices have crashed 40% according to an article from "Business Standard" what is the use of this snob values? A two year old Accent is available in the range of 3.25 to 4.5 lakhs and a two year old City for 3.5 lakhs as per the study conducted by them.
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Old 10th November 2006, 10:20   #325
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Adarsh there's no way an Accent will have better resale value than a City. In fact, OHCs still regularly sell for more than 3.5 lakhs.

BS Motoring talks crap. If they are to be believed, all of us should be driving around in San Storms.
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Old 10th November 2006, 10:31   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Adarsh there's no way an Accent will have better resale value than a City. In fact, OHCs still regularly sell for more than 3.5 lakhs.

BS Motoring talks crap. If they are to be believed, all of us should be driving around in San Storms.
Yeah, you're right. No news article can be completely taken granted. I think the study mentioned about the NHC's prices and not the OHC. I very well know that the OHC has still a good resale value. OHC is one of my all time favourite cars. They've given some reasons too for the crash in prices. A thread of that news has already been posted.

About Accent's resale value I guess if it's really having a higher resale value its due to the cheap running costs associated with it. I got an offer between 4 to 4.25 lakhs a few days back for my June 2005 Accent GLE. Although I didnt go for it.
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Old 10th November 2006, 10:36   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
Adarsh there's no way an Accent will have better resale value than a City. In fact, OHCs still regularly sell for more than 3.5 lakhs.
Exactly what I felt on reading that post.
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Old 10th November 2006, 10:39   #328
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I dont think accent has a better resale value than city anywhere in India.Are you sure the 4.5 quoted was for accent petrol?. or was it the CRDi?
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Old 10th November 2006, 10:41   #329
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Shiva
BS Motoring talks crap.

They are far better than Autocar and Overdrive except on the technical figure front.
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Old 10th November 2006, 11:14   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adarsh76
Yeah, you're right. No news article can be completely taken granted. I think the study mentioned about the NHC's prices and not the OHC.
??? - I dont think so. A two year-old NHC would sell for something between 5-6L, depending on the condition.

That said, one must also take the car's initial price into account while comparing resale values - an Accent sells now at 5.5L - 6.5L (big discounts), while the NHC goes at 7-9L (OHC went for 8-10L), so the resale values should also be comparatively lesser.
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