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Old 27th April 2016, 09:03   #61
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

Our fellow bhpian nitninja's Abarth punto ! She is definitely a looker. Turns head everywhere!
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Old 27th April 2016, 12:20   #62
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Originally Posted by LithiumSunset View Post
Excellent and an honest review, chase_nt. As a present owner of the GT tsi I read it with a lot of chuckling.

The first thing the GT does to you is spoil you for ever by that DSG box. Nothing comes close. I call it the poor man's Audi! In fact I bought the GT after a great night drive of a Q3.

Punto's long throw, somewhat, rubbery stick shift with a fairly long travel of the clutch and a heavy (hydraulic) steering has told me one thing: all my future cars will be automatics. Maybe it's my age where I can divest myself of this need to be 'connected' to my car (nonsense?).

It's sad that a purported performance car should be given a compromised gear box. Perhaps it's not the gearbox alone but the turbo spooling at over 2000 rpm that spoils it further.

I'm sure the car will grow on you and I wish you many happy miles.


Thanks LithiumSunset. Even though I currently own the Abarth Punto I have a soft spot for the GT TSI. It truly is a fun to drive car. I would say that the GT TSI is more of an all rounder than the Abarth (I'm sure the Fiat fanatics on the forum would have my head on a spike but I say things the way I experience it).


The GT TSI has convenience and performance. In my opinion the three things that the Abarth Punto has got going for it are Looks, Handling and Brakes. To tell you the truth the Polo is an ageless design and though it may not turn heads like the Abarth it is still a hot looking hatch. I feel that the Polo handles decently. I have pushed my GT TSI to its very limits and I felt that the car could take whatever I threw at it. This I feel would be adequate for a majority of car owners who may not even push their TSI's to such limits. The only time I felt the car to be jittery was when I pushed my TSI to very close to its top rated speed (I do not wish to mention the figure here). When it comes to the brakes I feel that there is really no comparison between the Polo and the Abarth.


For all those people who swear by manuals and feel that they are better than Automatics I would request them to drive a GT TSI first. The GT TSI was the type of car that would leave a wide grin plastered across my face everytime I sat behind its wheel alas that is missing in the Abarth. Even the feeling of being pushed back in your seat that I used to experience with the TSI is missing in the Abarth unless you really work the gearbox.


When my father first drove my GT TSI he was really impressed with its pick up and how easy it was to get carried away with it however when my father drove my Abarth recently he just bluntly said that "this car is not like your GT TSI". My father is not a car enthusiast at all. If this is how a layman feels after driving a GT TSI and then driving an Abarth I think it speaks volumes. Similar views were even echoed by my friends who drove my GT TSI before and now drove my new Abarth.


For all those people who own a GT TSI and are tempted to purchase an Abarth I would suggest that they don't because they have a very capable car in their hands. For those who want to purchase one of these cars I suggest that they test drive both these cars and then make up their mind. I personally feel that the GT TSI is truly VFM and gives you the best bang for your buck. No matter if you are an enthusiast or just a regular joe I'd say that the GT TSI has something for everyone. Given my penchant for changing cars I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of years down the line I purchase the GT TSI once again.
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Old 27th April 2016, 13:54   #63
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by chase_nt View Post

When my father first drove my GT TSI he was really impressed with its pick up and how easy it was to get carried away with it however when my father drove my Abarth recently he just bluntly said that "this car is not like your GT TSI". My father is not a car enthusiast at all. If this is how a layman feels after driving a GT TSI and then driving an Abarth I think it speaks volumes. Similar views were even echoed by my friends who drove my GT TSI before and now drove my new Abarth.
Trust me chase_nt I had the exact same opinion after a TD on the Abarth.

I took her out a longish drive on purpose because it took me a good amount of fiddling & fidgeting around to even find a comfortable driving position. Once I had, I got to an open stretch of road and floored it, expecting twice more fun & adrenaline rush that I get from my GT, but it felt totally subdued !!

Suddenly all that enthusiasm of expecting the 'Pinned to the Seat' evaporated and I was a bit disappointed.


Quote:

Given my penchant for changing cars I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of years down the line I purchase the GT TSI once again.
I don't know about others bro, but I have a very strong feeling that we may be reading a GTI ownership report from your stable soon!!
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Old 27th April 2016, 14:25   #64
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by chase_nt View Post
Given my penchant for changing cars I wouldn't be surprised if a couple of years down the line I purchase the GT TSI once again.
. Plan for GTi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
I don't know about others bro, but I have a very strong feeling that we may be reading a GTI ownership report from your stable soon!!
Vik0728: You stole the words right out of my mouth
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Old 27th April 2016, 16:25   #65
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
Trust me chase_nt I had the exact same opinion after a TD on the Abarth.

I took her out a longish drive on purpose because it took me a good amount of fiddling & fidgeting around to even find a comfortable driving position. Once I had, I got to an open stretch of road and floored it, expecting twice more fun & adrenaline rush that I get from my GT, but it felt totally subduedvery strong feeling that we may be reading a GTI ownership report from your stable soon!!
you just cant floor a petrol engine and expect it to fly as you do in tdi engines.These engines are to be revved till redline to experience that push back in seat effect.Gt tdi engines does 0-100 in 10.xx seconds and abarth does that in 9 seconds (8.86 secs by vbox) and still you say the performance felt subdued ! Im very sure chase_nt would have accustomed himself to the ergonomics of abarth by now and now it may not seem to be much of a problem to him. I can very well vouch that ergonomics in a fiat is not that bad as it is being projected here! Im coming from a vento 1.6 tdi and a polo 1.2 tdi.I can tell you driving dynamics of abarth cant be compared to these two !
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Old 27th April 2016, 17:27   #66
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
Trust me chase_nt I had the exact same opinion after a TD on the Abarth.

I took her out a longish drive on purpose because it took me a good amount of fiddling & fidgeting around to even find a comfortable driving position. Once I had, I got to an open stretch of road and floored it, expecting twice more fun & adrenaline rush that I get from my GT, but it felt totally subdued !!

Suddenly all that enthusiasm of expecting the 'Pinned to the Seat' evaporated and I was a bit disappointed

"Subdued". That is the perfect word to describe what it feels like after switching from a GT TSI to the Abarth. People might say that you have to downshift more to get the most out of the Abarth but that's not exactly what you have in mind when you go out and purchase a 145 bhp hatchback On the flip side I was worried about getting into a fender bender when I used to drive my TSI because that was how hard I used to push it however now that I have a more "subdued" car I guess I have less to worry about

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Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
I don't know about others bro, but I have a very strong feeling that we may be reading a GTI ownership report from your stable soon!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by shetty_rohan View Post
. Plan for GTi

Vik0728: You stole the words right out of my mouth


Though I would love to purchase a GTI that is something that will not happen because I do not want to spend more than 13 lakh on a car. I was contemplating waiting for the GTI and purchasing it however after I heard that it will be a CBU and the price somewhere in the Mini Cooper territory I decided to buy the Abarth instead. I feel that it just doesn't make sense to spend so much money on a car (especially when such a car is heavily taxed by the government) given the terrible roads, traffic and infrastructure that we have in India.



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Originally Posted by nitninja View Post
you just cant floor a petrol engine and expect it to fly as you do in tdi engines.These engines are to be revved till redline to experience that push back in seat effect.Gt tdi engines does 0-100 in 10.xx seconds and abarth does that in 9 seconds (8.86 secs by vbox) and still you say the performance felt subdued ! Im very sure chase_nt would have accustomed himself to the ergonomics of abarth by now and now it may not seem to be much of a problem to him. I can very well vouch that ergonomics in a fiat is not that bad as it is being projected here! Im coming from a vento 1.6 tdi and a polo 1.2 tdi.I can tell you driving dynamics of abarth cant be compared to these two !


Actually nitninja the GT TSI does literally feel like it is flying when you floor the gas pedal. Friends of mine who have floored the gas pedal in my GT TSI said "your car feels like an airplane bro" and those are their exact words. I'm pretty sure the GT TDI behaves similarly because the turbo spools at the exact same rpm as the TSI. The difference being the turbo on the TSI has a wider range than the TDI. Now that I've had the Abarth for a while I don't have a problem with the ergonomics because I've got used to the car.

Last edited by moralfibre : 28th April 2016 at 09:35. Reason: Fixing quote tag.
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Old 27th April 2016, 18:35   #67
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by chase_nt View Post
"Subdued". That is the perfect word to describe what it feels like after switching from a GT TSI to the Abarth. People might say that you have to downshift more to get the most out of the Abarth but that's not exactly what you have in mind when you go out and purchase a 145 bhp hatchback On the flip side I was worried about getting into a fenderActually nitninja the GT TSI does literally feel like it is flying when you floor the gas pedal. Friends of mine who have floored the gas pedal in my GT TSI said "your car feels like an airplane bro" and those are their exact words. I'm pretty sure the GT TDI behaves similarly because the turbo spools at the exact same rpm as the TSI. The difference being the turbo on the TSI has a wider range than the TDI. Now that I've had the Abarth for a while I don't have a problem with the ergonomics because I've got used to the car.
vikks has gt tdi and my comparison was between gt tdi and abarth.Between Gt tsi and abarth though paper figures differ but they dont have much difference in performance in real world scenario.When jumping from gt tsi to abarth performance may seem subdued but not from a 1.6 tdi.A difference of 2 seconds is a lot and i think it can be noticed when both gt tdi and abarth are driven hard.My vento 1.6 tdi feels fast because of the torque flow but abarth can push it to the back when it comes to performance.

0-100 performance figures from my knowledge
1.gt tdi 10.5x secs
2. gt tsi 9.xx secs
3.abarth 8.8x secs
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Old 27th April 2016, 20:37   #68
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by nitninja View Post
vikks has gt tdi and my comparison was between gt tdi and abarth.Between Gt tsi and abarth though paper figures differ but they dont have much difference in performance in real world scenario.When jumping from gt tsi to abarth performance may seem subdued but not from a 1.6 tdi.A difference of 2 seconds is a lot and i think it can be noticed when both gt tdi and abarth are driven hard.My vento 1.6 tdi feels fast because of the torque flow but abarth can push it to the back when it comes to performance.
Don't get me wrong.
I guess what vikks and chase_nt are talking about is the feel(not the numbers) of these cars. For me, after owning 83 bhp swift(petrol) when I test drove 103 bhp GT TSi(I know it has turbo, DSG etc) I could feel the huge power difference. So, if I take a test drive of 145 bhp, I would definitely expect it to be way better than GT TSi.
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Old 27th April 2016, 20:46   #69
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by chase_nt View Post

Actually nitninja the GT TSI does literally feel like it is flying when you floor the gas pedal. Friends of mine who have floored the gas pedal in my GT TSI said "your car feels like an airplane bro" and those are their exact words. I'm pretty sure the GT TDI behaves similarly because the turbo spools at the exact same rpm as the TSI. The difference being the turbo on the TSI has a wider range than the TDI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitninja View Post

My vento 1.6 tdi feels fast because of the torque flow but abarth can push it to the back when it comes to performance.

0-100 performance figures from my knowledge
1.gt tdi 10.5x secs
2. gt tsi 9.xx secs
3.abarth 8.8x secs
Hey nitninja I may be wrong with my assumption, but I think me and chase_nt were 'Technically' correct with our views on the Abarth & GT.

Lemme try to explain:

Both the 1.2 TSi & the 1.6 GT TDI are quick cars. At the time of launch and until recently, these 2 were the fastest hatches in their respective fuel types. One of the biggest reasons for this was their weight. These cars are build heavy, but they were not bulky per se.

In today's scenario, Figo TDCI is ~100cc, ~7 bhp & ~40NM torque lower than the 1.6 GT TDI but is way faster to the ton. Again, the reason here is the power to weight ratio. When I drove the Figo TDCI, it felt darn quick. Vento 1.6 TDI is quick, but the same engine in a car without the boot will feel a but scary.

The problem with Punto is the BULK it carries. Considering the fact that Abarth was destined to be the TRUE BLUE HATCH, FIAT must have really considered better weight management. I am not even contending/contesting the fact that Abarth is quick. But if you look closely, GT TSI with ~200 cc, ~40 BHP & 30NM Torque actually closes the acceleration gap continuously. Yes, all this is the technical data which is excellent for a track day.

What matters to normal/everyday petrol head like us, the sense of power. Again, I am not telling that Abarth is slow. But a very bad combination of Bulk, Gearbox and probably Ergonomics robs that Funny Tingling feel that one gets when you accelerate in a fast car.

PERSONALLY, what really bothered me about the Abarth is that even the Linea T-Jet had that better sense of 'Pin to your seat' feeling.

Last edited by Vik0728 : 27th April 2016 at 20:49.
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Old 28th April 2016, 09:03   #70
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by shetty_rohan View Post
Don't get me wrong.
I guess what vikks and chase_nt are talking about is the feel(not the numbers) of these cars. For me, after owning 83 bhp swift(petrol) when I test drove 103 bhp GT TSi(I know it has turbo, DSG etc) I could feel the huge power difference. So, if I take a test drive of 145 bhp, I would definitely expect it to be way better than GT TSi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vik0728 View Post
Hey nitninja I may be wrong with my assumption, but I think me and chase_nt were 'Technically' correct with our views on the Abarth & GT.

What matters to normal/everyday petrol head like us, the sense of power. Again, I am not telling that Abarth is slow. But a very bad combination of Bulk, Gearbox and probably Ergonomics robs that Funny Tingling feel that one gets when you accelerate in a fast car.

PERSONALLY, what really bothered me about the Abarth is that even the Linea T-Jet had that better sense of 'Pin to your seat' feeling.

This difference in FEEL between these two cars is exactly what Rohan, Vikk and I are harping about.
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Old 28th April 2016, 09:17   #71
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Default Re: The White Scorpion - Fiat Abarth Punto

Great review and congrats on the beast!
It sure is a looker, and not too common on the road as well (haven't spotted one on Mumbai roads as yet)
Really helpful when talking about two of the hottest, most wanted hatchbacks in the market!
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Old 28th April 2016, 23:52   #72
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I don't own either of these cars, but after driving both these cars on a very good stretch of the same road with similar conditions. This is what I thought
The Abarth just pulls and pulls.It just goes on and on and on ,the lag felt very minimal to me.In the city, you necessarily don't get the full feel of the power. The Polo isn't a slouch either, in the city it felt very easy to drive. But never gave me the same kinda power on the highway.


Also what I felt in the Abarth was that one doesn't exactly know what speed your doing unless you take a look at the speedo.It was the first hatchback that that that "effortlessly" reached 150+ mark, and one had to look at the speedo to know your doing it. It masks speed and how!. I thought I was going real slow at a point of time,until I saw the speedo indicating 90+ speed.
The Polo on the same highway, felt a little boring to be honest .It missed all the drama,the feel, those gearshifts.
The Abarth just made me feel a lot more special. Give you friends the Abarth on a good road, if they like revving engines,shifting gears and ofcourse tackling some bends, theyl be in love.

However, agree totally to the layman part.If you give the Abarth to someone who likes to upshift at 1.5-2.5k rpm, he's never feel those 145horses.

I alwyas fall in love with the Abarth every time I drive it.The Polo, it feels immensely easy to drive. But ask my lil soul which car it loves, and the Italian it is.

Sorry for the boring/long post BTW
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Old 29th April 2016, 06:24   #73
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I don't own either of these cars, but after driving both these cars on a very good stretch of the same road with similar conditions. This is what I thought
The Abarth just pulls and pulls.It just goes on and on and on ,the lag felt very minimal to me.In the city, you necessarily don't get the full feel of the power. The Polo isn't a slouch either, in the city it felt very easy to drive. But never gave me the same kinda power on the highway.


Also what I felt in the Abarth was that one doesn't exactly know what speed your doing unless you take a look at the speedo.It was the first hatchback that that that "effortlessly" reached 150+ mark, and one had to look at the speedo to know your doing it. It masks speed and how!. I thought I was going real slow at a point of time,until I saw the speedo indicating 90+ speed.
The Polo on the same highway, felt a little boring to be honest .It missed all the drama,the feel, those gearshifts.
The Abarth just made me feel a lot more special. Give you friends the Abarth on a good road, if they like revving engines,shifting gears and ofcourse tackling some bends, theyl be in love.

However, agree totally to the layman part.If you give the Abarth to someone who likes to upshift at 1.5-2.5k rpm, he's never feel those 145horses.

I alwyas fall in love with the Abarth every time I drive it.The Polo, it feels immensely easy to drive. But ask my lil soul which car it loves, and the Italian it is.

Sorry for the boring/long post BTW
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This is what i have been saying! Accelerate hard in abarth you literally have to hang on to the steering whereas the same feel is missing in the tsi! That torque steer in abarth is a beauty.I didnt feel the torque steer atleast in the tsi or the linea. Torque steer is a clear indication of the power this car has ! dsg makes sure the car is in turbo zone inside city premises making it easy for drivers.Nothing beats manuals though! Before buying abarth i test drove abarth and linea t.jet for long distances,, abarth feels faster than linea. sorry for goin O.T but had to say it out.

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Old 29th April 2016, 12:47   #74
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Originally Posted by nitninja View Post
This is what i have been saying! Accelerate hard in abarth you literally have to hang on to the steering whereas the same feel is missing in the tsi! That torque steer in abarth is a beauty.I didnt feel the torque steer atleast in the tsi or the linea. Torque steer is a clear indication of the power this car has ! dsg makes sure the car is in turbo zone inside city premises making it easy for drivers.Nothing beats manuals though! Before buying abarth i test drove abarth and linea t.jet for long distances,, abarth feels faster than linea. sorry for goin O.T but had to say it out.
The tech laden TSI makes sure that the driver doesn't get all the controlling power to tackle things like torque steer. A TSI with manual transmission without ESP could have torque steer.

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Old 29th April 2016, 16:51   #75
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The problem with Punto is the BULK it carries. Considering the fact that Abarth was destined to be the TRUE BLUE HATCH, FIAT must have really considered better weight management. I am not even contending/contesting the fact that Abarth is quick. But if you look closely, GT TSI with ~200 cc, ~40 BHP & 30NM Torque actually closes the acceleration gap continuously. Yes, all this is the technical data which is excellent for a track day.

What matters to normal/everyday petrol head like us, the sense of power. Again, I am not telling that Abarth is slow. But a very bad combination of Bulk, Gearbox and probably Ergonomics robs that Funny Tingling feel that one gets when you accelerate in a fast car.

PERSONALLY, what really bothered me about the Abarth is that even the Linea T-Jet had that better sense of 'Pin to your seat' feeling.
1) Punto weighs quite a lot, but the same weight tranforms into a greater momentum on the highways which makes you progress well even with small dab on the accelerator. Check its power to weight ratio or torque to weight ratio and you wont any longer think that weight bogs down the performance at least for the Abarth. Its a true hot hatch.

2) The sense of power is missing as per you, maybe because the Abarth masks the speed like no other, including the Polo. The TSI would be blown over by the Abarth as far as the mid range and top end performance is concerned. The GT TSI feels better in the low end, just because of the superb DSG that can change gears faster than a person.

3) The Abarth has a bigger turbo than the Linea T-JET, so takes more time to spool as well. Again working with the gearbox and understanding the torque/bhp charts makes sense before commenting like 'Linea T-Jet had that better sense of 'Pin to your seat' feeling'. In fact I am shocked at this statement of yours.
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