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Old 15th May 2016, 14:08   #16
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
@ Rahulkool, Wolf Moto quote 140 BHP and 245 Nm. The engine spools up faster with the remap, and I find that the driveability for city use has improved significantly. Throttle respones is a lot better and even the slight lag below the turbo zone is minimized.
Do you have the power and torque map for tjet engine ? how was the mid and high power ?

Does anyone has Abarth punto power and torque maps ? Any link ?
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Old 15th May 2016, 16:29   #17
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
Do you have the power and torque map for tjet engine ? how was the mid and high power ?

Does anyone has Abarth punto power and torque maps ? Any link ?
No, I don't have the maps, stock or remapped.

The midrange response was always good and I would say it remains the same, but with it does pulls a bit better towards the top, and it does about 500 RPM more than the stock’s 4500 RPM before power starts dropping off.

Like I said earlier, it just revs a bit quicker than with the stock map, so feels a bit more eager.
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Old 16th May 2016, 19:40   #18
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
Finally they told that they have found the problem and it has something to do with "spark angle".
Ah. I finally found someone who faced the exact same problem I did, except that, I lived with the problem for the better part of a year, probably more.

I experienced the very same problem when my T Jet was brand new. I ignored it cause while on the move, you could not feel the problem and the car responded well. The mild engine shudder had to be experienced in a calm, quiet environment. During first inspection (Not service), I did tell Prerana Motors (Now Vecto for Fiat) about the problem. They plugged in the steering wheel mounted scanner and everything was good. They did the same thing as you did, put their hand on the engine cover and while those mild shudders were noticeable, in their books, all was good. I was not convinced and left it at that. I was not confident that the problem could be solved by Prerana's engineers considering they were unable to feel what I was feeling. This mild shudder was more pronounced in very hot weather. In fact; my father noticed it too and he was more worried than I was considering I put down 10 big ones on the car.

I did not realize this immediately but it was after a change of spark plugs, during second year service, did the problem go away. I had forgotten about the engine shudder as it was not always there. If the weather was cold, no problem. If the AC was running, no problem. Certain conditions would make the shudder more pronounced and the biggest problem was making the engineers understand that there was a problem. With them being used to handling Multijet engines more than T Jet engines, a mild shudder like this was probably normal or hardly a matter of concern.

I am on my second set of spark plugs now and don't have a problem.

Those NGK Iridium spark plugs are expensive too. 5K for a set.
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Old 17th May 2016, 15:07   #19
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Ah. I finally found someone who faced the exact same problem I did, except that, I lived with the problem for the better part of a year, probably more.

I experienced the very same problem when my T Jet was brand new. I ignored it cause while on the move, you could not feel the problem and the car responded well. The mild engine shudder had to be experienced in a calm, quiet environment. During first inspection (Not service), I did tell Prerana Motors (Now Vecto for Fiat) about the problem. They plugged in the steering wheel mounted scanner and everything was good. They did the same thing as you did, put their hand on the engine cover and while those mild shudders were noticeable, in their books, all was good. I was not convinced and left it at that. I was not confident that the problem could be solved by Prerana's engineers considering they were unable to feel what I was feeling. This mild shudder was more pronounced in very hot weather. In fact; my father noticed it too and he was more worried than I was considering I put down 10 big ones on the car.

I did not realize this immediately but it was after a change of spark plugs, during second year service, did the problem go away. I had forgotten about the engine shudder as it was not always there. If the weather was cold, no problem. If the AC was running, no problem. Certain conditions would make the shudder more pronounced and the biggest problem was making the engineers understand that there was a problem. With them being used to handling Multijet engines more than T Jet engines, a mild shudder like this was probably normal or hardly a matter of concern.

I am on my second set of spark plugs now and don't have a problem.

Those NGK Iridium spark plugs are expensive too. 5K for a set.
Another brand new car with the same problem !! You should have asked them to check and compare with another Tjet.

Its a failure of FIAT's PDI. I am sure the problem must be there when vehicles left the factory. For me service center acknowledged the problem immediately. They even got the Abarth TD car and checked.

Ya those spark plugs are super expensive, i was really surprised when i saw the price rs1145/- and thought it must be for the set .

Last edited by Rahulkool : 17th May 2016 at 15:09.
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Old 17th May 2016, 15:21   #20
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

I had the same issue a year back on my T-Jet. Got the spark plug replaced and it was all fine. The issue resurfaced after 1 year and this time it was one of the engine mounting pad. It is working fine now after replacement.
The quality of stock spark plug seems to be questionable. I have never been able to visibly compare the new and old spark plugs.
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Old 17th May 2016, 15:41   #21
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

Congrats Rahul. Wish you many Kilometers with your Abarth. Hope the new owner will treat the Palio well.

Number of Palio 1.6 owners on Team BHP is going down Wonder whether I should also take the plunge.

Take care and drive safe
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Old 17th May 2016, 16:04   #22
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

@Rahulkool: Congratulations on gifting yourself the ABARTH hot hatch.Wishing you many years of trouble-free, adventurous ABARTH years ahead.

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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
Update on FE.

After doing a petrol top up yesterday at 2060kms, i reset the trip meter A. For next 25kms the FE was shown as 14-15kmpl. I has never seen such figures on Abarth. It always was in between 9-11kmpl. This was driving in the city with light traffic and changing gears around 2000-2500rpm. I am not sure what has happened but all of sudden FE has improved. Even with heavy foot on the highway it didn't drop below 11.5kmpl. Earlier i had seen 9.5kmpl with similar driving.

Attachment 1505393
Sanjay (@SunnyBoi) had shared the exact same picture on one of our whatsapp group wherein the topic of my TJet's fuel economy was being discussed. That's a super mileage for such a powerful car. My TJet with 114ps doesn't return such figures unless driven at a boring speed.

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Originally Posted by h14 View Post
Hearty congratulations on the Abarth! A rare scenario where Palio 1.6 owner upgrades to an Abarth! Either they hold on to the 1.6 or move away from FIAT completely

I'm with you on your thoughts on the gearbox and clutch. And your comparisons with the Palio on the ac vents are spot-on.

EDIT: Reg your fuel efficiency, a friend just mentioned that his T-Jet too had a similar jump after 1500kms! So enjoy the double digit figures, these numbers will stay. How much was your Palio delivering in similar conditions? Eager to know the FE of the Stile 1.6.
Pretty difficult to get away from FIAT and seems like you too are inseparable from FIATs (With reference to your signature). Coming to the mileage topic, you're spot on with the observationon on your friend's TJet. My TJet too used to return around 7 kmpl in the city till around 2500 kms but then after that she returns around 9.5 to 10kmpl - Same road and more or less the same traffic. Can also be attributed to the driver getting to now the engine better or the driver being more concerned about the monthly fuel bills which results in driving sedately. I observed that if I keep the revs below 2200 rpm by shifting appropriately I get a better mileage. Post 2200 rpm the turbo kicks in and the mileage goes for a toss.

Last edited by Vinodh_Gowda : 17th May 2016 at 16:22.
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Old 17th May 2016, 16:06   #23
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
Only thing which bothered me on Tjet that it didn't rev as freely as the Palio, after 4500-5000rpm engine on the Tjet kind of wanted you to up-shift rather than push further. Not at all a deal breaker or anything but free revving engine was something that I loved on the Palio.
As a TJet owner, I agree to this completely. You're bang on

Last edited by Vinodh_Gowda : 17th May 2016 at 16:23. Reason: Grammar corrected
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Old 17th May 2016, 17:13   #24
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

That is a nice car! Congratulations, Rahulkool! I was in a slightly similar situation when my Petra was beginning to feel old. The plan was to replace it with a Linea Tjet. The new car came, but I just could not get myself to part with the Petra.

So now I have got the Petra repainted and upholstery redone. And I drive both cars almost alternately.

Now I have one question about the driving dynamics of the Abarth. When I am driving the Linea tjet around a curve at speed and I wish to change gears, the gears seem to slot in at a slightly different place, which seems very odd. I almost invariably have to try slotting it in two or three times before it works. Then when the road straightens and the car is not leaning left or right, gear shifting again becomes like it was before. Have you also experienced this?
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Old 17th May 2016, 18:20   #25
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Congrats Rahul. Wish you many Kilometers with your Abarth. Hope the new owner will treat the Palio well.
Thanks, my advice would be not to sell the palio if you have time and means to maintain.

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Originally Posted by Vinodh_Gowda View Post
@Rahulkool: Congratulations on gifting yourself the ABARTH hot hatch.Wishing you many years of trouble-free, adventurous ABARTH years ahead.
I didnt had any expectation in terms of FE, from this car. Anything above 9kmpl in city is good. But i was surprised with figure i saw.

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Originally Posted by prabuddhadg View Post
That is a nice car! Congratulations, Rahulkool! I was in a slightly similar situation when my Petra was beginning to feel old. The plan was to replace it with a Linea Tjet. The new car came, but I just could not get myself to part with the Petra.
Thanks, you are lucky to keep both. I have not exprienced the issue which you have mentioned in Linea Tjet or Abarth so far.
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Old 17th May 2016, 18:57   #26
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

@Rahulkool

Finally they told that they have found the problem and it has something to do with "spark angle".

Was it the electrode gap that they were refering to, or something else? I have had a mild roughness at idle since I bought the car, and am wondering if its the plugs.
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:10   #27
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
@Rahulkool

Finally they told that they have found the problem and it has something to do with "spark angle".

Was it the electrode gap that they were refering to, or something else? I have had a mild roughness at idle since I bought the car, and am wondering if its the plugs.
The service manager told me "spark angle". I didn't inquired much on this, to me it sounds related to ignition timing. They had a diagnostic laptop connected to the car and checking on various parameters, you should take your car to the service center and get it checked. Spark plugs are really expensive otherwise your could have swapped them and check.
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Old 17th May 2016, 19:36   #28
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
Another brand new car with the same problem !
I should have been more clear. My car is a 2011 model. I was trying to say that this problem existed back then, when the car was new.

Rahulkool, when time permits, can you please go back to your service center and ask them to show you what parameter was highlighted that suggests the spark angle as the problem.

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Originally Posted by keroo1099 View Post
I have had a mild roughness at idle since I bought the car, and am wondering if its the plugs.
If the roughness is felt irregularly, then it probably is the same problem.

I too am curious to know what parameter on the OBD scanner indicated that it was a spark angle issue. More than anything else, I was surprised that someone at Fiat India could identify and resolve an issue like this. It is the fist time I am coming across a term called spark angle.

Last edited by sandeepmohan : 17th May 2016 at 19:41.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:10   #29
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

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Originally Posted by prabuddhadg View Post
That is a nice car! Congratulations, Rahulkool! I was in a slightly similar situation when my Petra was beginning to feel old. The plan was to replace it with a Linea Tjet. The new car came, but I just could not get myself to part with the Petra.

So now I have got the Petra repainted and upholstery redone. And I drive both cars almost alternately.

Now I have one question about the driving dynamics of the Abarth. When I am driving the Linea tjet around a curve at speed and I wish to change gears, the gears seem to slot in at a slightly different place, which seems very odd. I almost invariably have to try slotting it in two or three times before it works. Then when the road straightens and the car is not leaning left or right, gear shifting again becomes like it was before. Have you also experienced this?
@Prabuddha: Ditto to what you said. I still cant let go of the 1.6. I too drive it alternate days. Everytime I drive the 1.6, I think to myself "Why don't I drive this more often". When I get to office and I look at my wet shirt (due to non-working A/c), I get the picture.

Lather, rinse and repeat.

Also, your observation on the gear change is spot on. I too try to downshift just as i am about to take a sweeping left and the gear doesn't slot into third. If I am in fifth, it doesn't slot into fourth. But it easily slots into second.

There is no such issue with the Palio gearbox which according to me has defined gates and a nice throw which makes you feel like you are actually changing gears. Unlike short throw boxes where shifts feel like flipping a switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rahulkool View Post
The service manager told me "spark angle". I didn't inquired much on this, to me it sounds related to ignition timing. They had a diagnostic laptop connected to the car and checking on various parameters, you should take your car to the service center and get it checked. Spark plugs are really expensive otherwise your could have swapped them and check.
Congrats on the car Rahul!

I too have a Palio 1.6 GTX and have recently acquired a Linea T-Jet. Even after remapping, the TJet cannot provide the instantaneous throttle response or the eagerness of the 1.6. Also, the T-Jet is not that rev-happy and am assuming that has got something to do with fact that its a (IIRC) longer stroke engine. But the maintenance and trouble shooting for the Palio can take a toll as its a complex machine (which even today my mechanic tells me is ahead of its time) and hardly any mechanic wants to touch. Nevertheless, she is now in her 15th year and am planning to renew the registration for 5 more years.

Also, due to popular demand, we request that you please check with your SA (for everyone's benefit) as to what exactly was the problem. 'Spark angle' is a vague term and can only be co-related to ignition timing and changing spark plugs is not the solution. So if the remedy was change of spark plugs, then it has to do something with the spark plug itself or the spark that it was emitting. Perhaps, one of them wasn't working or was weak..so they changed all of them.

Perhaps, the SA didn't think it was necessary to tell you what the issue was so long as they were able to solve it by a simple replacement.

If the plugs are of questionable quality, the trouble is there are hardly any equivalents for this specific model (IKR9F8) in India.

Last edited by thedragula : 18th May 2016 at 11:15.
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Old 18th May 2016, 11:44   #30
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Default Re: From a Palio 1.6 to the Fiat Abarth Punto

Congrats on the Abarth, Rahul.
Even though I am not a huge fan of the Abarth Punto, there aren't many cars which can replace the 1.6 Fiat. These are the words of a newbie S10 owner. The feel of raw power of the 1.6 NA is something no new generation cars can replace. That said, the Abarth have a really capable chassis, great steering and excellent brakes. The powertrain is also great but spoiled by that iffy gearbox.
Wishing you many more happy miles with it.

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Number of Palio 1.6 owners on Team BHP is going down Wonder whether I should also take the plunge.
As Rahul said, if you can maintain both, get one. When old timers leave the 1.6 family, new, young 1.6 guys get into the family. Myself being one of them.
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