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Old 8th September 2016, 18:53   #31
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Why do we have a transmission tunnel if it's a FWD? (And in the process make it 4 seater.) Is it reuse of pre-build body/chassis? or possible future AWD?
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Old 8th September 2016, 18:59   #32
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Poor engine choice or not but this car would sell very well in India, we are all enthusiasts on the forum but general public out there really give a damn to the FWD/RWD drive debate and they would also have zero clue about the unreliability of this dsg box. They may have apprehensions about the small engine size but Audi would pitch in with the claimed 17km/l arai rating and yeah i have seen many rich people cribbing about poor fuel efficiency.

Indian public loves lighter steering, stellar ride quality, premium interiors and Audi has given them all this stuff. A4 would still have the most plush low speed ride compared to merc or bmw, have the lightest steering, the interiors are much better than bmw 320i, there is a spare tyre in the boot and the virtual cockpit is a winning factor for the young crowd. This car is pitched towards masses and chauffeur driven crowd and the 1.4 TSi would not pose an issue for them.

I do not have much clue about Merc but BMW 3 is not for an average joe, the seating position is very low, the steering is hard even in comfort mode, the ride is hard owing to its stiff suspension and runflats, the interiors do not give the wow factor like Audi's, runflat woes and bmw is very miser when it comes to giving features. There is just no advantage for an average joe when it comes to buying a 3, it is only meant for enthusiasts and that enthusiast crowd is too small in our country.
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Old 8th September 2016, 19:59   #33
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Default A4 1.4 TSI - DL501 7-speed DSG

Thank you for the detailed review.

The 1.4TSI being an entry level petrol variant is no problem, but when the likes of A3 and Skodas are providing the stonker of a 1.8TSI engine, I believe enthusiasts will feel shortchanged. It would be interesting to see how the market responds and if more of A4 petrols would be sold compared to 320i / C200.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
What you won't:
  • 7-speed DSG has a notorious reputation for breakdowns & unreliability
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Engine & Transmission

Also keep in mind that the 7-speed DSG has a notorious reputation. It has been prone to breakdowns and is known as the most unreliable automatic transmission around.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anshumandun View Post
Do we know which one has been used with the A4 1.4 TFSI? If it's the DQ200, it will be running at its maximum torque load and that is not good for the gearbox that is already infamous for its reliability. I hope Audi has used DQ250.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
DSG gearbox gremlins: Need I say more?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Not clear news on the exact model of the GB, they say it is improved 7 speed S tronic (Audi's new nomenclature for DSG).

I am pretty sure it is not the notorious DQ200 7 speed DSG that is being used in this Audi A4 1.4 TFSI. The dry clutch DQ200 was intended only for transverse engine front wheel drive applications. Wet-clutch DSGs, DQ250 (6-speed) / DQ500 (7-speed) are also limited to a transverse layout, but with addition of all wheel drive option. Audi A4 however is a longitundal engine FWD/AWD layout. Thus none among DQ200, DQ250 or DQ500 (in Tiguan and soon in Kodiaq) would be used in the MLB platform architecture. This is my understanding, please feel free to correct.

The particular 7-speed DSG in the new Audi A4 1.4TFSI should be similar to the 7-speed DSG in the erstwhile S4/S5 (ratios / clutch pack ratings etc may be different). My guess therefore is that this is the DL501 DSG or S-tronic as Audi would like to call it. And all the DSG woes have been primarily with only the DQ200. There shoudln't be any '7-speed' worries in this car

Note: You can read more about the DL501 7-speed longitudinal DSG (code 0B5) here.
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Old 8th September 2016, 20:05   #34
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

The A4 driven review was QUICK after the launch and as entertaining to read as all the T-BHP reviews are

Should we still suspect the following or be a little more lenient?

-->7-speed DSG has a notorious reputation for breakdowns & unreliability

It has been 2-3 years at least now that we're not hearing stories of such complaints. Any thoughts?
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Old 8th September 2016, 20:47   #35
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

If I had to be chauffer driven and in market for a car as a status symbol, my priorities would be (purely me in my rational sense )-

- Brand; I will shortlist BMW, AUDI, Jaguar & Mercedes
- Comfort & Space; Audi, Jaguar, Mercedes (BMW eliminated)
- Gizmos & tech+ Affordability; Audi, Mercedes (Jaguar eliminated)
- Latest offering; Audi

Now 60% of buyers in luxury market are back seat drivers and more BHP should actually worry them. This would also sell well for next 2 years and then there would be a refresh. I trust Audi that they understand market dynamics better then other 2 biggies.

I used to be surprised seeing Corolla numbers but not anymore. Even the most powerful C class sedan Verna is the least selling and Ciaz with least power sells the most- should give some food for thought that how general public thinks before investing in their toys.

Cheers!

Last edited by Passiautonate : 8th September 2016 at 20:49.
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Old 8th September 2016, 21:12   #36
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Super review Jaggu. The A4 has always been my favourite looks-wise in this segment and this version takes it to quite another level. As for the echoing refrain of being underpowered...well, I drive a 104 ps car that feels about 20 horses less so I'd settle for 150 I guess

Still it's expensive as heck! Like others said the 320i seems like a freaking steal in comparison. And it has RWD and is more than a second faster to the ton mark!

Hmmm...maybe the echoing refrain is correct after all!
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Old 8th September 2016, 21:22   #37
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

I see this car and all i can think of is, damn another rebadged Volkswagen. Give me one reason why I should pick this up over it's competitors?

I want pure luxury with a soothing drive? Thanks, I'll get a C class. As smooth as jacuzzi.

I want a great driving pleasure? Audi? No thanks, I'll get the 3 series.

I want to stand out and have some exclusivity? No problem, let me go to the Jaguar showroom.

What's Audi trying to do here? First the Jeep, now Audi. Seems like automotive companies are taking us Indians for granted.
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Old 8th September 2016, 22:53   #38
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Alright guys. I think we are jumping the gun..

Yes, 100% agreed that the 1.4 TSI, despite it's engine being both smooth and 'adequately powered', doesn't cut it in a 40L+ German luxury car. It just doesn't - Audi's logic be damned!

However, how many 1.4 TSIs do Audi realistically expect to sell? Not a lot I guess. The real game will begin when Audi launches the A4 2.0 TDI, which will rake in most volumes. According to me, the more important questions are:
  • When does Audi plan to launch the 2.0 TDI?
  • How(keenly) will the 2.0 TDI be priced?
  • How does it fare vis-a-vis its competition?

And I am more disappointed by the fact that:
  • The price of the 1.4 TSI is pretty steep. Unless it is CBU(?), there is very little justification for the high price. Going by this yardstick, even the 2.0 TDI is expected to be fairly expensive. If I were Audi India boss, I will have rather taken some hit on the profits, than price an under-powered car so steeply.
  • The launch of 1.4 TSI may mean that we don't get any other petrol (2.0 TFSI) engine - at least for a while. If so, it is a case of missed opportunity. The market for well-powered petrol cars have opened up and Audi petrol engines are known to be markedly smoother to both BMW and Mercedes' engines.

By the way, the A4 has received rave reviews across the globe. Here's one (and I rate Carwow folks pretty highly):
So, let's be very clear that this is an opinion on the A4 1.4 TSI, not A4 in general

- A

Last edited by Abhi_Automobile : 8th September 2016 at 22:56.
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Old 8th September 2016, 22:58   #39
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

As a current owner of 1.8 TFSI CVT in Mumbai, I cannot even think driving an A4 with 148 hp / 250 NM engine. At this price point no owner will think of mileage , we just think about total range offered which can be achieved by a larger fuel tank

As far as mileage is concerned ,my 1.8 TFSI gives me 15-16 kms/litre mileage during my Mumbai-Pune highway runs . Inside city mileage drops to 9 kms / litre . I'm very happy with the 1.8 litre engine . I would have loved Audi to bring in 2.0 or 2.4 litre petrol versions with both stick shift and auto gearbox options.

When I purchased in 2012, I would have opted for a stick shift version if it was available but Audi stopped producing it for Indian market
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Old 8th September 2016, 23:47   #40
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Me thinks the car looks awesome. Sharp, edgy and futuristic. The power figures look decent on paper, until you realize its a tiny 1.4 turbo petrol.

I am sure the engine will do its job, just that the buyer will have to avoid thinking of the embarrassing moments when tiny Abarths try to bully it on the freeways. Luckily for prospective A4 owners Abarths are rare to spot. In case they do those blinds are surely gonna help
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Old 9th September 2016, 09:23   #41
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

For the first time, I am seeing Audi copying Mahindra's design for its wheels.
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Old 9th September 2016, 09:44   #42
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acharya View Post
Offer following information to an automotive executive -

1. Most of A6, 5 series and E Class sold in India are with lower spec engine
2. A large number of luxury car buyers buy these cars for the brand name
3. Good interiors play higher priority in the buying decision, compared to engine size/performance (refer BMW sales charts)
Yes this is quite the norm for majority of buyers, it is changing but rather slowly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizay View Post
Why do we have a transmission tunnel if it's a FWD? (And in the process make it 4 seater.) Is it reuse of pre-build body/chassis? or possible future AWD?
Yes basically to keep the option of having multiple transmission option available with the platform. Standardisation rather.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avinash_clt View Post
I am pretty sure it is not the notorious DQ200 7 speed DSG that is being used in this Audi A4 1.4 TFSI.
=======
Note: You can read more about the DL501 7-speed longitudinal DSG (code 0B5) here.
Like i mentioned i don't have details of this, i had checked audi site and forums but there is no confirmation on the exact model number used for 1.4 TFSI + 7 speeds in new Audi A4. Will see if we can get any info from Audi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheel View Post
For the first time, I am seeing Audi copying Mahindra's design for its wheels.
Oh many they are everywhere first Tata now M&M
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Old 9th September 2016, 13:06   #43
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acharya View Post
Most of A6, 5 series and E Class sold in India are with lower spec engine
Lower spec, yes. Under-specced, no.

The German 2.0L diesels are quick enough; as an example, the E250D has 500 Nm of torque and does 0 - 100 in 7.5 seconds. The 520d has 190 horses / 400 Nm and does 0 - 100 in 7.7 seconds.

Plus, by Indian standards, 2.0 is still a big engine in the sedan space.
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Old 9th September 2016, 13:15   #44
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

I have noticed this alot about these premium brands. When they get a cheaper product in the market, they end up increasing the prices of the previous cheapest model. Hence the entry level rate of these cars remains the same. I am sure when the Audi Q2 will come out, they will jack up the price of Q3 and keep the price of Q2 the same as what Q3 is selling for today.
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Old 9th September 2016, 15:11   #45
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Default 7-speed DSG : DL501 or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Like i mentioned i don't have details of this, i had checked audi site and forums but there is no confirmation on the exact model number used for 1.4 TFSI + 7 speeds in new Audi A4. Will see if we can get any info from Audi.
I did some reading to get some clarity for myself. There has been only one series of the longitudinal DSGs used in Audi and it is DL501 itself. The particular gearbox with varying gear ratios and torque ratings have been used previously in combination with 2.0TFSI Quattro, 3.0TFSI quattro (S4/S5/A6 etc), 4.0TFSI quattro (S6/S7), 3.0TDI Quattro etc. Basically in all their longitudinal platforms with 'S-tronic' or DSG boxes. When the torque ratings were beyond the rated capacity for DL501 (for eg: In Audi RS6 / RS7), they went back to regular torque converter boxes ('Tip-tronic' in Audi speak, 8 speed variant in RS6/RS7).

So my bets are still on the DSG box in A4 1.4TFSI being an iteration of the DL501 itself. However, this is one of the first cases I saw where the longitudinal DSG has been paired with a front wheel drive layout. I am also curious why Audi wouldn't clarify regarding the same initially itself as the reputation that precedes the DQ200 failures are quite fresh in our market and always brought up in every product launch. The fact that there have been three variants of 7-speed DSGs already doing duties in Indian market (transverse dry clutch DQ200 in VW/Skoda, transverse wet-clutch DQ500 in Q3 2.0TDI quattro, longitudinal wet-clutch DL501 in A4 and upwards with the 7-speed S-tronic) adds to the confusion and concerns.
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