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Old 9th September 2016, 19:18   #46
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Nice Review Jaggu!
The 2 models are around 44 and 48 lakhs OTR, mumbai, which is a little too much I think, given the earlier petrol models (180 BHP, 320 NM torque) were probably less. With these luxury cars, there's hardly an 'official' price as such. If there's competition threatening, they'll drop pricess easily by 10-15% ...

BTW, what is the exact boot space in litres and what's the GC (I know they don't mention in the literature, but their sales folks would have the figures)

News is just trickling in (http://indianautosblog.com/2016/09/2...h-india-241582) that the Accord Hybrid is expected end October this year. I dare say that might be a better buy (assuming it is launched at ~30 OTR Mumbai)

No DSG worries, FAR superior reliability, much better fuel economy, actually a more powerful engine (yes, in a hybrid! Total power 212 BHP, if the US figures are anything to go by!) much better service, better resale value, much better cabin space and even a full size spare! The only downside might be a compromised boot space (to house the battery) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arjun Reddy View Post
...

Agreed we will get the 2L engines but would probably be close to 60 lakhs OTR. Then the long wait for discounts start. Stupid!

...
Not sure they will do that because currently the (only) A6 matrix sells at 63 OTR (Pune).

Also, Merc / BMW are selling petrols and diesels at the same price these days (e.g. the GLC 220d/300, BMW 520i/520d) to take fuel out of the equation. May be Audi might go down the same route ... Also there's really not that much gap left to play with ...

Last edited by ajmat : 9th September 2016 at 20:21.
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Old 9th September 2016, 20:26   #47
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Originally Posted by AbhisheKulkarni View Post
Yikes. The pricing is a bit of a bummer for me. Makes the Skoda Superb look so VFM!

Wonder who would buy this over the C200 and the 320i. It's not even like it's VFM in pricing.

Loved the LCD in the cluster. Looks so premium as compared to it's competitors.

But seriously Audi, you messed up the pricing. This actually makes the base variant of the 320i look cheaper, and that too with the better engine, gearbox and RWD layout!

The the cherry on the icing though, 250 NM of torque from a 7-speed DSG, which is the rated limit of the 'not-so-reliable' gearbox!?

Impressed, but not blown away. Why would anyone spend 38 lakhs ex-showroom for this?
i wouldn't worry too much about price. Expect a hefty 8-10 lac discount soon on sticker in true Audi tradition.

I don't understand why car makers think of Indian customer as fool!
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Old 9th September 2016, 22:12   #48
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

A well-written review. Thanks for sharing!

It is indeed a timeless design, but not changing by time makes it look a bit stagnant as well. In comparison the C (or even the middle-aged 3) got much more character. That said, the interiors look brilliant especially in the all black trim.

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Originally Posted by Jaggu View Post
Also keep in mind that the 7-speed DSG has a notorious reputation. It has been prone to breakdowns and is known as the most unreliable automatic transmission around.
Is this the same notorious 7-speed DSG of VAG petrols, or Audi's 7-speed spin-off from the 6-speed DSG?
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Old 9th September 2016, 22:20   #49
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Nice review of an interesting car. Frankly, I don't think people care so much about the power delivered by cars in this segment - most A4 buyers care a lot more about the badge, space (vs the 3 and the C), and opulent interiors. A4s have a longitudinal layout - so the 7 speed S Tronic cannot be the dreaded DQ200 (which is offered on the A3 - a MQB car - in many markets). And with a 30 TSI badge, lots of buyers will think it has a 3 litre engine (someone I know both a 50TDI A8, and when asked about engine size looked and said 5 litres). Prices will drop in 6 months or so, but I am willing to bet that lots will sell at full price to folks wanting the latest and greatest A4.
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Old 10th September 2016, 08:36   #50
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Like everyone else has said, the new A4 could have been the perfect car but it's ultimately let down by the engine.

The looks are starting to grow on me, the interiors are top notch but still, THAT ENGINE.

Irrespective of how much the smaller engine really matters, the buyer will always feel short charged. It isn't a secret that Octavia and Jetta have a better engine, and they cost almost half as much.

What I feel Audi should have ideally done is have a top down strategy. In that way, the halo is created (think Q3 S edition).
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Old 10th September 2016, 11:03   #51
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I hate how that barbecue grill design has become a stupid trend lately. It looks ugly and feels slapped on to the front of every car that has it.
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Old 10th September 2016, 11:42   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizay View Post
Why do we have a transmission tunnel if it's a FWD? (And in the process make it 4 seater.) Is it reuse of pre-build body/chassis? or possible future AWD?
Audi has AWD in its DNA. Also note that some cars have the floor hump as they use it to route exhaust plumbing etc.

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Originally Posted by avinash_clt View Post
The particular 7-speed DSG in the new Audi A4 1.4TFSI should be similar to the 7-speed DSG in the erstwhile S4/S5 (ratios / clutch pack ratings etc may be different).
Check out Sahil's RS-5 thread. IIRC, he's already had two DSG failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rejeen View Post
It has been 2-3 years at least now that we're not hearing stories of such complaints. Any thoughts?
Says who? Some examples in 2 minutes of searching:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mysticmonkey View Post
Act 2, Scene 1:- DSG DOA (dead on acceleration)
One fine evening at 9 pm, DSG decided to stop working. Fortunately, I was in the basement parking of my gym. So I left the car and called roadside assistance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by adi_petrolhead View Post
noise during up shift after clutch change, gruff feel while driving, poor fuel economy. Now this problem was the biggest of all. They had absolutely no clue about the solution, however it was evident that it needs a new gearbox. They updated 3-4 different(or same) versions of the DSG software. Then changed the clutch 2 times. Tried all different sizes of shims, Tried to make adjustments in the Mechatronic unit. Note that all this work, needs the gearbox to be removed from the vehicle completely. So they removed and re-installed the gearbox in my car at least 5 times in one month. Opening the gearbox ruins the bolts, pin bearing, damages the flywheel, because until now the flywheel was fine! But they ruined it too, and mind you removing the gearbox means you must remove battery, remove the air intake, remove the starter, remove the passenger side front wheel, suspension, and then you can access the gearbox. Finally after a lot of trouble and haggling with Skoda, they changed the gearbox and the flywheel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtv View Post
Incidentally, my neighbour's one year old 2.0 TDi DSG is at the shop after breaking down die to the same problem just last month. He had been told the parts would take a month to arrive. It has been three weeks since and he is yet to receive any notification from the shop.
Quote:
Originally Posted by anand.shankar View Post
just that the buyer will have to avoid thinking of the embarrassing moments when tiny Abarths try to bully it on the freeways. Luckily for prospective A4 owners Abarths are rare to spot. In case they do those blinds are surely gonna help
Too good!
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Old 10th September 2016, 12:51   #53
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Touch-Wood, no such gearbox issues in my Audi Q5, it has covered 93.5k km in last 4 years and has never had to visit the workshop for anything except scheduled servicing and couple of windshield repairs. It has been very reliable and at the moment I'll rate Audi Service the best out of the German trio, at least in Delhi.

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Old 10th September 2016, 13:42   #54
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Says who? Some examples in 2 minutes of searching:
Looks like the two 7-speed dsg failures are on 2013 models and the other one is 6-speed which appears to be an aberration. But I get the point - it is probably too early to see failures on 2014 and up.

The Vento DSG twins will be what I'll look forward to because we have many TSI owners here and also because Skoda ASC is pathetic as I hear from my cousin.
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Old 11th September 2016, 03:36   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Check out Sahil's RS-5 thread. IIRC, he's already had two DSG failures.
Thanks for pointing to this thread. As per Sahil, it was not a major failure, but rather 'a sensor and a harness part within the mechatronic' along with the fluid/filter/hoses (Sahil's post (From the "5" to the Audi RS-5)). Not to the extent of DQ200 failures, nevertheless a concern.

I agree to the fact the DSGs are still not robust and reliable like the proven torque converters / CVTs. But there is considerable difference between the track records of the different DSG units, with all major failures and replacements associated with DQ200, dry clutch unit. I too am worried about the DQ200 in our 2.5 year old Vento and immediately took the EW when Volkswagen released it (wasn't available initially when we bought the car). Relatively the wet-clutch DQ250 in the Superb 3.6, post 65k KMs & 5.5 years doesn't invoke similar concerns.

My idea was to point out that there are 3 different types of 7-speed DSGs (DQ200, DQ500, DL501) doing duties in India, and I believe quite a few of our readers are unaware of the same. Between them are differences in construction, maintenance requirements as well as reliability track records. The DL501 (which is what I believe the 1.4TSI has) would be quite few in numbers (In India offerd only in some of those Audis with 3.0TSI / 3.0TDI / 4.0TSI). Except for initial concerns till 2011/12, from what I understand these boxes are pretty reliable as far as DSGs go and thus shouldn't be seen in the same light as the notorious DQ200 units.
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Old 11th September 2016, 13:20   #56
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

To add to the woes, I understand the virtual cockpit (which is a USP) is not available in the 38 L variant. Its only there in the top variant. Can someone reconfirm?
By the way, I'm taking delivery of one of the last few old A4 35TDI, red with black interiors with sunroof. Hope it does not turn out to be an unwise decision. Of course got a fat discount

Last edited by dinu2506 : 11th September 2016 at 13:23.
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Old 11th September 2016, 14:04   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dinu2506 View Post
To add to the woes, I understand the virtual cockpit (which is a USP) is not available in the 38 L variant. Its only there in the top variant. Can someone reconfirm?
By the way, I'm taking delivery of one of the last few old A4 35TDI, red with black interiors with sunroof. Hope it does not turn out to be an unwise decision. Of course got a fat discount

Yes the virtual cockpit is only available in the top end Technology variant.
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Old 11th September 2016, 14:19   #58
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Quote:
Originally Posted by dinu2506 View Post
To add to the woes, I understand the virtual cockpit (which is a USP) is not available in the 38 L variant. Its only there in the top variant. Can someone reconfirm?
By the way, I'm taking delivery of one of the last few old A4 35TDI, red with black interiors with sunroof. Hope it does not turn out to be an unwise decision. Of course got a fat discount
Thats a shame that the virtual cockpit is only in the top end version !! I thought this was the USP of the car and would help it inch ahead of the 3 series and C class. With this feature gone, the C and 3 both make more sense for various reasons. Anyways, being an Audi car, huge discounts will be available soon. This is how they operate.
On another note, the previous generation A4 that you have bought may be a wise choice although i have often faced the same dilemma ! When i was buying my Corolla a few years back, the previous gen 3 series was just a few lakhs more but i couldn't take the plunge. The older car will still give you all the driving pleasure although it won't attract as many eyeballs as the newer one. The wow factor is missing ! But the VFM is not even comparable
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Old 11th September 2016, 23:02   #59
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Having driven my good friend's B8 generation A4 Avant estate here in Germany with a 2 litre TDI engine with 177 PS of power and more importantly, 380 Nm of torque mated to an uninspiring (on paper), Multitronic CVT gearbox, I have understood that torque addresses most of the rubber band effect of the CVTs and the drive was actually quite pleasurable. Reaching high speeds is an absolute ease thanks to the big displacement engine being less strained. This small 1.4 TSI engine sounds unreasonable for a car of this class and I have a hunch that the great DSG transmission cannot cover the lack of horses and torque of this small motor and spirited driving will definitely take a hit thanks to a small motor under the hood. What was Audi thinking?
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Old 12th September 2016, 13:27   #60
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A4

Audi buyers:

1) Buy the A3, or even the Q3.
2) Want the badge in something bigger than the A3 then buy the previous (Preowned 1-3yrs within warranty) A4 or A6 for much less than the current A4 with bigger engines, and a bit fewer gizmos.
3) Are aged, don't drive or drive very little (Basically sit in the rear seat all the time) Buy the A4 if you need the badge and the Superb if you need a good seat with even better leg room. Do note the A3 and Q3 rear seats are not good. Period. At least nor for the chauffer driven. So A4 for badge or Superb for seats are the only option.
4) But if you drive yourself, current A3 and Q3 both would be much better (read fun) options in the Audi family. Gizmos can entertain for a while and then the BHP starts counting.

Frankly I would suggest all those considering the new A4 to try out the outgoing E200 - They are a steal and deals are really tempting, plus you go up a category while going for a bigger brand. Nope I don't recommend the C class either (Too pricey)

Last edited by ACM : 12th September 2016 at 13:29.
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