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Old 13th March 2017, 18:59   #31
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Default Re: 1.4 TSI / TFSI cylinder deactivation

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Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
Is it because India is a diesel dominant market and 2.0TSI even with its benefits will be only be an enthusiast’s car?
India has been predominantly a diesel market and also the reason why cars like A4/A6 which once had petrol engines likes 2.0TFSI/3.2FSI/3.0TFSI dropped them from their line-up and stuck to one single 1.8TSI. But regulatory changes have been encouraging the return of petrol engines. Initially they came as CBUs again and now via CKD too.

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The only thing I will mention is that the engine is happy with 95 RON fuel. I do not know how it will run on 91 RON or if 95 RON is readily available and if the company tuned it for conditions.
VW India has launched petrol engines in the past which were recommended with a minimum 95 RON rating (Audi 2.0/3.0TFSI - 3.2FSI, Superb 3.6FSI etc) and sold with a disclaimer of lesser performance and efficiency when run with lesser octane rating. They were however honoring warranty/extended warranty repairs irrespective of lesser RON fuel most of them ran on. We have a 3.6FSI that is rated for min 95 RON, but has been running on regular 91 RON and going good at 74,000 KM.

Unlike 1.8TSI for which it explicitly states that it can be run on 91 RON also (at lower performance and efficiency levels), 2.0TSI is recommended with a min 95 RON. So unlike a low volume CBU Audi S-model, VW may have its concerns for having 2.0TSI as a mainstream engine. But the new generation EA288 2.0TDI have been detuned and adapted to work with our fuel (Octavia/Superb Mk3), so VW can if they wish to for the 2.0TSI also.
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Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
If the 2.0 TSI is introduced, then not only the engine itself is costlier (than the 1.8 TSI), the engine now belongs to the 1.5 - 2.0 category which attracts higher excise duty.

The 1.4 on the other hand, will come in the 1.2 - 1.5 duty bracket. And the entry level luxury segment is very price sensitive. So pricing will be their main concern.
While I agree that the entry level luxury segment is price sensitive, the 3% excise duty hike (27% vs 24%) for >1.5L engine effectively results in odd 2.5% difference in OTR prices. Such difference are often less than the discounts offered on these cars after a certain point of time.

If UK prices are indicative, the difference between a 1.4TSI 150PS (with cylinder de-activation) and 2.0TSI 220PS Superb models (identical trim & transmission options) is around £1000 before taxes. That would mean a price difference of 2-2.5lakh OTR at the max in India, and lesser when compared to models which already have 1.8TSI in their line-up. So having 2.0TSI as an option is not a very expensive proposition. They can choose to maintain 1.4TSI engines for lowered entry level pricing.

Paired with a manual or a wet clutch DSG (unlike 1.8TSI), the 2.0TSI brings in serious tuning potential

Last edited by avinash_clt : 13th March 2017 at 19:03. Reason: Missing info
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Old 13th March 2017, 19:11   #32
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Default Re: 1.4 TSI / TFSI cylinder deactivation

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Originally Posted by avinash_clt View Post


While I agree that the entry level luxury segment is price sensitive, the 3% excise duty hike (27% vs 24%) for >1.5L engine effectively results in odd 2.5% difference in OTR prices. Such difference are often less than the discounts offered on these cars after a certain point of time.

If UK prices are indicative, the difference between a 1.4TSI 150PS (with cylinder de-activation) and 2.0TSI 220PS Superb models (identical trim & transmission options) is around £1000 before taxes. That would mean a price difference of 2-2.5lakh OTR at the max in India, and lesser when compared to models which already have 1.8TSI in their line-up. So having 2.0TSI as an option is not a very expensive proposition. They can choose to maintain 1.4TSI engines for lowered entry level pricing.

Paired with a manual or a wet clutch DSG (unlike 1.8TSI), the 2.0TSI brings in serious tuning potential
Yes, as you said, even I wish they brought in the 2.0 TSI atleast as a choice, and 1.4 remained as entry level option. I think they bought in 1.4 TSI to avoid sticker shock, while still bumping up price and margins, and also for the fuel efficiency crazed customers. If they bought in the 2.0 TSI, prices will go 40+ ex-showroom
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Old 14th March 2017, 15:04   #33
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Default Re: 1.4 TSI / TFSI cylinder deactivation

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Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
... hoping to buy it in another 6-7 years. But by the looks of things, the prospects seem grim. The recent trend is so saddening, I guess, in another 6-7 years, the Octavia will come with a 1.2 TSI :( I wish they don't touch the Octavia at all and leave it as good as it is.
Electric cars will be the rage then

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Originally Posted by avinash_clt View Post
... We have a 3.6FSI that is rated for min 95 RON, but has been running on regular 91 RON and going good at 74,000 KM.
...
Paired with a manual or a wet clutch DSG (unlike 1.8TSI), the 2.0TSI brings in serious tuning potential
I am sure running on 91RON for long will not make the engine happy at +3Lac km as many engines in Europe do.

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Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
Yes, as you said, even I wish they brought in the 2.0 TSI atleast as a choice, and 1.4 remained as entry level option. I think they bought in 1.4 TSI to avoid sticker shock, while still bumping up price and margins, and also for the fuel efficiency crazed customers. If they bought in the 2.0 TSI, prices will go 40+ ex-showroom
The owner is mostly being driven in this price bracket and so the creature comfort is more important than the potential as potential is rarely realised in everyday use.

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Old 14th March 2017, 15:30   #34
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Default Re: 1.4 TSI / TFSI cylinder deactivation

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Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post

The owner is mostly being driven in this price bracket and so the creature comfort is more important than the potential as potential is rarely realised in everyday use.

Yes that is true but do you think even A3 owners are driven? Even Honda City has more back seat space I believe.
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Old 14th March 2017, 16:08   #35
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Default Re: 1.4 TSI / TFSI cylinder deactivation

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Originally Posted by Sn1p3r View Post
I am sure running on 91RON for long will not make the engine happy at +3Lac km as many engines in Europe do.
I completely agree. Running on 91 RON is not by choice. Nearest source for us to have 95+RON is 200km one way, second nearest 400km one way . Honestly I was expecting the BS norms to follow EU emission norms with a gap of 5 years between them(as originally proposed), whereby in 2015 BSIV should have been standard across the country and BSV should have been introduced. This could have led to introduction of 95RON fuel in many cities. However the govt's initial proposal to dilute BS6 fuel quality requirements isn't encouraging.

On the flip-side, it might be another 15 years atleast before our car reaches those mileage. And due to our road infrastructure, local availability of spares etc, there would be more things to worry at higher mileages for these cars.

Last edited by avinash_clt : 14th March 2017 at 16:16. Reason: corrected info
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Old 15th March 2017, 20:40   #36
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Default Re: 1.4 TSI / TFSI cylinder deactivation

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Originally Posted by rageshgr View Post
Yes that is true but do you think even A3 owners are driven? Even Honda City has more back seat space I believe.
I am far removed from Indian context but I have seen 800/Alto/ being chauffeured around. AFAIK backseat comfort prejudice is higher for Indians.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avinash_clt View Post
I completely agree. Running on 91 RON is not by choice. Nearest source for us to have 95+RON is 200km one way, second nearest 400km one way . Honestly I was expecting the BS norms to follow EU emission norms with a gap of 5 years between them(as originally proposed), whereby in 2015 BSIV should have been standard across the country and BSV should have been introduced. This could have led to introduction of 95RON fuel in many cities. However the govt's initial proposal to dilute BS6 fuel quality requirements isn't encouraging.

On the flip-side, it might be another 15 years atleast before our car reaches those mileage. And due to our road infrastructure, local availability of spares etc, there would be more things to worry at higher mileages for these cars.


I assume you will not even keep the car for so many years.

The tanks here keep on going till TÜV beats the owner into submission. 100,000 km Dr. driven Audi A6 Avant, 10 years old even though drives nice needs €3000 for the 11year TÜV clearance. And my kid’s teacher drives a 20 year old VW Golf at +250,000 km
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Old 20th March 2017, 13:33   #37
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)

I absolutely love Audi minimalist design, both in and out.

This could be a perfect choice for someone looking at an entry level luxury car that is competitively priced and frugal. With cylinder deactivation tech and a turbo, you might even be able to beat Maruti at its game.
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Old 21st March 2017, 14:25   #38
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)

NDTV Auto reports suggest that the 2017 Audi A3 facelift will be launched in India on April 6, 2017.

Link to Team-BHP News

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Old 6th April 2017, 14:48   #39
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)

2017 Audi A3 launched in India at Rs. 30.50 lakh

Audi has launched the 2017 A3 sedan in India, which has been priced at Rs. 30.50 lakh for the petrol and Rs. 32.30 lakh for the diesel. The updated model comes with some cosmetic changes on the exteriors as well as interiors, along with a new, downsized petrol engine.

Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)-unnamed-1.jpg
Link to Team-BHP News

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Old 9th May 2017, 19:47   #40
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)

Just an update for those interested in the engine’s nature.

It has been 1 month and 1000 km with the car and it has everything going for it. I use 95 Super (E5) in Germany and the car is smooth, the power is sufficient to dispatch the unlimited speed restrictions and torque is enough to enjoy the city commutes. It averages 6.5L to 100 km with Aircon on 25% of the time. With just heating and enthusiastic driving I get around 5.5 L to 100 km. Best I have got is 4.9 L to 100 km with heating on 50% of the distance, a round trip on flat lands and highway drive. The turbos spool up on time and 60-110 or 80-100kmph speeds to join the autobahn are done easily. It uses no more fuel driving at 100 or 130 but gets a little hungry after 150kmph (it is the drag). 120 to 180 takes 10 seconds as the turbos are already spooled up.

Mods: I know all these speeds are illegal in Indian context, these are just factual numbers from my car not meant for daily drivers in India but good information for people from other geographies as I came looking for information before I got mine.

It is a :thumbsup for the engine.

Cheers!
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Old 13th July 2017, 03:12   #41
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)

Hi All,

I had a query to all you experts out there. My office had allocated a 2015 AudiA3 petrol to me. So its a 1.8 engine with around 170horses.
The car was majority driver driven not self driven and was also used for other office purpose. For some official reasons the car is out for sale and I am thinking of buying it.
Like some of you mentioned - I was going for a new Scoda Octavia petrol AT(absolutely in love with it) because of obvious reasons, cheaper with more features, more legroom, space etc. However now I am getting the A3 at a good price (depreciated value minus what was paid from my salary etc) so I think it will cost me much cheaper (around twenties). so i will shell around 4-5LKHS lesser than a new Ocativa petrol.
1) This is a 2nd car for us and we are a small family of short people (the tallest being me at 5.7) so height and legroom is not an issue for us.
2) What differences I observed (i might be really wrong, just personal assumptions) i thought the A3 was better planted at higher speeds 170+KMPH, better handling in traffic and had a little better build quality.
3) I am very happy with a compact (quick n fast) sedan for quick office short trips in Mumbai traffic and a weekend trip on highway and Octy is a little large for this (this is not a deal breaker for the Ocavia for me)
4) I wanted to ask 3-4 years down the lane will the A3 have a better resale value than the new Octavia or is it the opposite?


Based on these factors could you guys advise if I should go for the A3 deal? I am really keen on picking it and taking a mechanic/evaluator this weekend to check the intrinsic details of the machine.
please advise.
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Old 13th July 2017, 05:55   #42
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)

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Originally Posted by mikilbhatkar View Post
Based on these factors could you guys advise if I should go for the A3 deal? I am really keen on picking it and taking a mechanic/evaluator this weekend to check the intrinsic details of the machine.
please advise.
I'll chip in with a different thought process.. people can always own a Skoda but the Audi is clearly a league ahead. Even under the VW Group Audi is seen as better than VW, Skoda, Seat etc, its clearly a luxury car and the others aren't.

Now most may say that the Skoda has more value, will be cheaper to maintain, more space etc, that isn't wrong but I guess you know that already. Since its your 2nd car and since you already like the A3 I think it's a no brainer. Sometimes when we take a quick decision based on the heart over the mind, I tell you it's way more satisfactory than doing the "practical" thing.

That said, the Audi will certainly be approx 20% more expensive to maintain.. simply for its brand value. Resale is also unpredictable for either.. you have an Audi which would be 2nd owner when it comes up for sale and then you have a Skoda which isn't the foremost in reliability(I've seen a new Octy sitting in a used dealer lot since 2 months now). You can comfortably get back close to 40-45% of the cost after 3-4 years (I've seen used BMW 3-Series which is a superior car at about Rs.14L 5 years old so resale for luxury brands isn't that hot). I bet you'd be happier with the Audi so that is my pick.
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Old 13th July 2017, 08:35   #43
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)

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Originally Posted by mikilbhatkar View Post
Hi All,

I had a query to all you experts out there. My office had allocated a 2015 AudiA3 petrol to me. So its a 1.8 engine with around 170horses.
The car was majority driver driven not self driven and was also used for other office purpose.
Hi Mikil.
I would recommend that you go ahead with the Audi A3 provided you are familiar with the way it was used by the driver. The resale will not be that good as you will be the second owner but still its worth the money if you are planning to keep it for a minimum of 4 to 5 years. If you know the right people in your office then i am sure you can bargain and get it cheaper than the current market value.
Just my two cents. Drive safe
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Old 13th July 2017, 18:10   #44
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Default Re: Driven: Audi A3 1.4L Petrol (2017 Facelift)

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Originally Posted by dark.knight View Post
people can always own a Skoda but the Audi is clearly a league ahead.
Sometimes when we take a quick decision based on the heart over the mind, I tell you it's way more satisfactory than doing the "practical" thing.

You can comfortably get back close to 40-45% of the cost after 3-4 years (I've seen used BMW 3-Series which is a superior car at about Rs.14L 5 years old so resale for luxury brands isn't that hot). I bet you'd be happier with the Audi so that is my pick.
Thank you Dark Knight! this was really helpful!

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Originally Posted by Akib Khan View Post
Hi Mikil.
I would recommend that you go ahead with the Audi A3 provided you are familiar with the way it was used by the driver. The resale will not be that good as you will be the second owner but still its worth the money if you are planning to keep it for a minimum of 4 to 5 years. If you know the right people in your office then i am sure you can bargain and get it cheaper than the current market value.
Just my two cents. Drive safe
Thank you Akib! Yes, I plan to keep the car definitely for the next 4 years. I think I am familiar with the way it was driven, to be on a safer side I am taking an Audi mechanic/evaluator with me this weekend to check for details.
yup - the bargain is on! Thanks again for your feedback, keep you guys posted if this materializes
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