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Old 24th April 2007, 14:16   #151
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Really, Well Palio might be a safe car in addition to the heavy metal. But the safety is not due to heavy metal. Mercedes engineers might have thought they did something really good when they realized that heavy and strong metal is not what makes car safe and added crumple zones.
I havent even got safety into the picture. To me, its the feel good factor.
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Old 24th April 2007, 14:21   #152
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Amusing thread! A few people argue that some Fiat owners praise the car no matter what but those same people argue about how their car's are better in every way then other cars!

When someone says the car is built like a tank, it's not supposed to be taken literally. Come on people, what happened to the fine art of languages? To make things clear a statement that goes "the car has a tank like build" should be inteprated as "the car FEELS like it's built like a tank." If someone says, "I am so hungry that I can eat a horse" would you guys ask him to prove it for real? Here are some statements that I have read in auto magazines and probably on this forum too but never did anyone ask for proof:

1.) "No one makes better engines then Honda". If asked to prove that, we probably couldn't, because BMW walks away with engine awards every year. Of course we can put that down to European snobishness but thats again getting ridiculous. A few years back Fiat's 1.3MJD won over Toyota's corolla engine but then the Europeans are racists.

2.) The tank like build statement has been used many times for Skoda too. No one asks for safety ratings and proof of that. Why? (Now you know where the term Fiat haters comes from?!)

3.) "The car comes with that typical Mercedes magic carpet ride." Why don't we ask proof of that? And more importantly how will we prove any of these statments?

I don't believe that the Palio is the safest car in India or in it's segment or in the world. Neither is it the best car ever made. Neither do I believe that tank like build translates into 5 star NCAP rankings. A car may feel like a tank but may not do that well on safety. And by the way, none of us can prove tank like build beause none of us has ever owned a tank and neither will we ever. It's all about feel and perception. It's all about languages and fine art of talking and writing. Writing "The Palio feels built like a tank" is easier (One line) and reads better then "The Palio's build quality is really very good and the bodyshell holds up really well to a lot of abuse that our Indian roads throw up. The car doesn't get rattled easily on our pathetic roads and the car will easily hold up for many years without too many rattles."

By the way, even ACI refers to the Palio's tank like build quality. Maybe Hormazd is an idiot becuse a lot of us here believe that team-bhp is the last authority on anything automotive and we are better then all automotive experts combined together in whole of India.

For those asking for proof of Palio's build quality, I have one thats nearing 50,000kms with no rattles inside or out and no parts falling off. Sorry to disappoint all of you!

I will now wait for some Maruti, hyundai or tata owner writing about how he has a 100,000 kms driven car with no rattles and how my Palio having no rattles means nothing compared to that. Stop generalising guys. There will be a rattling 5,000kms Palio and a non rattler 100,00kms Maruti and vice versa. Yes, I do agree that Japanese build quality is more consistent then Fiat's. Thats why there is a term callen Italian eccentricity.

I was thinking of putting up a long term update on my car but with so much of biasedness (both pro and anti) here, I am wondering if it's worth starting a thread only to see it denegarate into what we have seen here.

Last edited by amit : 24th April 2007 at 14:26.
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Old 24th April 2007, 14:27   #153
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Amit you get a 100 stars for a brilliant and well written post. Its useless talking here otherwise. Guys its hilarious reading this thread if anyone wishes to please move a few pages back and enjoy
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Old 24th April 2007, 14:32   #154
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Very well said Amit!

Fiat owners: We proudly own a Fiat car and we know all its strengths! So let us continue to enjoy our cars!

Fiat haters: Whine, Sulk, whine, sulk, whine, sulk...........!
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Old 24th April 2007, 14:49   #155
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Amit, it is the real fact you have written, Appriciable.
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Old 24th April 2007, 14:52   #156
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[quote=amit;420795]Amusing thread! A few people argue that some Fiat owners praise the car no matter what but those same people argue about how their car's are better in every way then other cars!

I don't see many people doing that !!. Why are you so defensive ? Come on theres nothing wrong in discussing something. Paying more than 4 lakhs of your money, one would defend their car (its surprising that people who pay more than 10 lakhs on skodas, civics are more forthright !!). Your post was actually funny ( along the lines of "fine language").
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Old 24th April 2007, 14:58   #157
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Anyone read the mid-day (afternoon ed) today?
There was a 5 car accident in Andheri last night, involving a Swift and a Palio 1.6 (by the alloys), a truck and 2 auto's.
The drivers of the Swift and the Palio died (though the swift was in worse condition from the pics) and the auto guys survived with minor bruises.
(now, im going to leave this thread and i won't be surprised to come back and see someone saying that an auto is safer than the Palio and the Swift)
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Old 24th April 2007, 15:05   #158
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Yes but the Logan is sold in the EU, unlike the Palio, meant for us third-worlders.
Palio isnt sold for us third worlders.... but was "designed" for third world countries... there's a hell lot of difference in those two statements.
Its all about feel, no maruti not even the latest and the best the swift gives me the same feel as my 5 year old palio.
Mind you safety isnt just abt heavy doors and bonnet, its about the passenger shell and the chassis, the door and bonnets are just the skin of the car and are "not" meant to protect in case of a crash.
But its reassuring when the doors close with a thud... instead of "thin".
All the small cars including the santro's and the wagon r's are supposed to be city run abouts... they are not proper hatches in the breath of the Palio or the swift or the getz.
Gosh i dont even want to write... makes me sick reading the comments posted by others on this thread to a statement as simple as "built like a tank".
Why doesnt anyone use the same term for a corolla or even the new civic? Its all about feel... enuf said!
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Old 24th April 2007, 15:06   #159
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As usual .....I can see the purpose of this thread is dying down.. mods better close the thread just like you closed another fiat thread about stopping petra's production.

Last edited by greatDrive : 24th April 2007 at 15:08.
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Old 24th April 2007, 15:08   #160
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I think the argument over perception versus facts has been carried a little too far. The fact that no NCAP ratings are available for Palio has only added fuel to the fire.

What's wrong with people basing their views and car buying decisions on perceptions rather than bare facts alone? Perceptions aren't formed just like that. There is some logic and reason behind every perception. Also, IMO, there's at least some overlap between what is fact and what is perception.

It is a fact that Palio/Petra/Adventure (but not Palio Stile) have relatively heavy bonnets and doors, something that one can feel and experience while lifting/opening them. It is a fact that the body panels and doors on these cars exhibit relatively low metal flex when pressed with hands, unlike Indica and most cars from Maruti. Now, it is not necessary to actually weigh the doors and bonnet and to measure their gauge thickness before forming the perception that these cars have thicker and heavier doors and bonnets. Yes, it would help if figures for these attributes were available but if they aren't, one would rely on what can be seen and felt, besides whatever other info is available.

A lot of people who have sat in the new Palio Stile have formed the perception that it doesn't have the build quality of its predecessor and they're probably right. I lifted the bonnet of one car at Vivek Auto and it seemed to be lighter than that of the earlier Palio. The mechanics who were working there confirmed this. The door slamming sound too seemed to be different from the thud one experienced in the earlier Palio. The fact that the car weighs about 25 kilos less than the old Palio only seems to corroborate what is already seen, felt and perceived.

Yes, the Palio Stile is a let down. It'll be interesting to watch whether it manages to develop the kind of fan-following that its predecessor enjoyed.

It seems Palio Stile is FIAT's brainwashed-by-Tata response to the Average-kya-hai syndrom prevalent here. It'll be interesting to compare the Indian Palio Stile with similar-spec Palios currently available abroad to find out whether there's been lowering of build quality standards there too. After all, these days, even Mercedes cars aren't built the way they used to be earlier.
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Old 24th April 2007, 15:25   #161
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Yes, it would help if figures for these attributes were available but if they aren't, one would rely on what can be seen and felt, besides whatever other info is available.
Figures are available. The kerb weight of the cars!

E.g. Palio (not the Stile) - 1098kg
Baleno - 9XXkg.
(no, I'm not going to look up magazines for exact specs!)

Now the Palio is a smaller car than the Baleno, but yet weights more. That weight has to come from somewhere.

Again, this is posted simply from a factual point of view and not to take sides here.
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