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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:12   #121
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
The palio does have a solid body which is rattle free,all european cars are built like this.
All euro cars are not built like this. The Japs are known to be rattle free, not the Europeans.

The Palio isnt a European car. Its a developing market car built by a European carmaker - a bit like Renault's Logan, but a comparison with the Logan is very uncharitable as Fiat have not stinged on equipment or specs.

Last edited by Steeroid : 23rd April 2007 at 23:15.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:18   #122
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GTO
Just saw the Overdrive test of the Palio Stile. It does a 0 - 100 in..................20.xx seconds!!!!! Come on, even the diesel Indica turbo is faster.
GTO,
if one wants to have drags in a Palio, they would chooe the 1.6.
The 1.1, though much slower outright, has been tuned keeping ciy driving in mind.
IMHO, for a city car, i think you should be looking at in gear acceleration and not drags to 60/100kmph.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:18   #123
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Yes but the Logan is sold in the EU, unlike the Palio, meant for us third-worlders.

My Baleno also doesn't rattle. This is after innumerable hillclimbs, highway runs, track days, drags, street races, offroad adventures, you name it, I've done it. Whereas memo's old Siena, Harrie's 1.6, and the JBL eyeballer all rattled. Their gearknobs kept coming off. Their whole dashboard is slightly loose around a fast, hard corner, or under intense braking.

As you can probably see, my statements come with some experience and proof. Now how about backing yours up similarly?
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:23   #124
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
All euro cars are not built like this. The Japs are known to be rattle free, not the Europeans.

The Palio isnt a European car. Its a developing market car built by a European carmaker - a bit like Renault's Logan, but a comparison with the Logan is very uncharitable as Fiat have not stinged on equipment or specs.
Are u trying to imply Japanese cars are better built than European(mainstream) ones ?
A rattle free body is different from a rattle free interior(or lack of plastic rattling sound).

It dosent matter if it is built for Asia or Antartica,ceratin companies build cars in certain ways and that remains true for all their cars.A car built by a European manufacturer is a European type car.

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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Yes but the Logan is sold in the EU, unlike the Palio, meant for us third-worlders.

My Baleno also doesn't rattle. This is after innumerable hillclimbs, highway runs, track days, drags, street races, offroad adventures, you name it, I've done it. Whereas memo's old Siena, Harrie's 1.6, and the JBL eyeballer all rattled. Their gearknobs kept coming off. Their whole dashboard is slightly loose around a fast, hard corner, or under intense braking.

As you can probably see, my statements come with some experience and proof. Now how about backing yours up similarly?
Again i am saying body rattle is different from dashboard rattles.The palio has poor plastics,much poor than Suzuki and Hyundai.

Built like a tank genrally refers to the external build of a vehicle,like the strength of it metal surface and its structures like doors etc

Last edited by adya33 : 24th April 2007 at 08:07.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:29   #125
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
Are u trying to imply Japanese cars are better built than European(mainstream) ones ?
Yes, given the same price points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
A rattle free body is different from a rattle free interior(or lack of plastic rattling sound).

It dosent matter if it is built for Asia or Antartica,ceratin companies build cars in certain ways and that remains true for all their cars.A car built by a European manufacturer is a European type car.
What a load of crap. Rattles are rattles. If you pay for a car, and it rattles, it doesn't matter whether they are body or interior rattles. They still irritate.

Yeah, just like those 118 NEs and Fiat 1100Ds and Lada Rivas, epitome of quality. Sipani Dolphin too. Not to forget the Peugeot 309 and the Rover Montego. Real quality cars, those.

By your logic, all Ford Focuses and Fiestas are American-type cars. All Nissan Titans are Japanese-type cars.

I suggest you preview your posts and read through them carefully. The result may be a little more sense in them.

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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
Built like a tank genrally refers to the external build of a vehicle,like the strength of it metal surface and its structures like doors etc
Do you mean to say that the Palio has stronger metal than other cars? How are its doors stronger? Don't generalise.

Now that you have admitted the Palio has poor plastics, I will tell you the Baleno doesn't have any body rattles. Neither does the Esteem. Or the Santro. Or the Honda City. And I've owned all these cars, so I speak from experience.

Thus we learn that Japanese cars have no rattles, inside or outside. Palios have no rattles outside, but rattle inside. We can thus conclude that Japanese (and Korean) cars are better built than the Palio.

Last edited by adya33 : 24th April 2007 at 08:08.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:34   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
My Baleno also doesn't rattle. .....

As you can probably see, my statements come with some experience and proof. Now how about backing yours up similarly?
The Baleno may not rattle, but just make sure you never have an accident in it!
European New Car Assessment Programme: Safety Rating Details
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:34   #127
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
Are u trying to imply Japanese cars are better built than European(mainstream) ones ?
I'm not trying to imply - I am saying as much, based on personal experience.

However, we can continue this discussion elsewhere - there are threads dealing with this topic specifically (Jap versus Euro versus American, etc).

Let us not talk about intangibles here because this is based on perception, and everyone perceives his car to be better in some respects that cannot be defined. Because if one goes by this arguement:

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
Built like a tank genrally refers to the external build of a vehicle,like the strength of it metal surface and its structures like doors etc
Then my Tata Safari is the ultimate battletank. Have you tried opening its doors? Or the hood? (Stuart Little TRIED but couldnt lift it). The 5 doors and the hood of the Safari probably weigh more than the car under consideration here.

I do not believe that is a criteria for BUILD.



Let us instead talk facts here.

Last edited by Steeroid : 23rd April 2007 at 23:41.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:37   #128
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
Yes, given the same price points.


What a load of crap. Rattles are rattles. If you pay for a car, and it rattles, it doesn't matter whether they are body or interior rattles. They still irritate.

Yeah, just like those 118 NEs and Fiat 1100Ds and Lada Rivas, epitome of quality. Sipani Dolphin too. Not to forget the Peugeot 309 and the Rover Montego. Real quality cars, those.

By your logic, all Ford Focuses and Fiestas are American-type cars. All Nissan Titans are Japanese-type cars.

I suggest you preview your posts and read through them carefully. The result may be a little more sense in them.
they make perfect sence if you bother to read them in context,Europen type means built with european design techniques.

IF you dont understand body rattle then please read,
body rattle refers to rattles comming from engine mountings,chassis joints,shock absober mountings,tranmissions,door joints etc.

Interior rattles come from dashboards,seats,steering wheel parcel trays etc.

and at the same price point the Europeans are better built than their Japanese counterparts Octavia vs Corolla,Palio vs Wagon R,Santro.

But a Lexus GS is better built than a VW Passat.

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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Let us instead talk facts here.
What facts,i have a Palio 1.6 and my relatives have a new wagon R.just few days back the owners 3 year old son climed on the wagon R's bonet and there were 2 dents on the bonet.

My 2 1/2 year old cousin climbs on my cars bonet and roof virtually everyday but there are no dents.

see tata cars have very good rigidity but their final assembly is not perfect like engine mounts and door joints and this is from where they rattle.

Last edited by adya33 : 24th April 2007 at 08:06.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:45   #129
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
What facts,i have a Palio 1.6 and my relatives have a new wagon R.just few days back the owners 3 year old son climed on the wagon R's bonet and there were 2 dents on the bonet.

My 2 1/2 year old cousin climbs on my cars bonet and roof virtually everyday but there are no dents.
The same can be said of the Ambassador. This isnt getting anywhere.

The Toyota Yaris will have its sheetmetal flex just like you described, but it has a 5-star NCAP rating.

FACTS mean proven safety ratings, crashworthiness, et al. Not somebody's kid walking over someone else's car.

Last edited by Steeroid : 23rd April 2007 at 23:49.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:47   #130
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Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
and at the same price point the Europeans are better built than their Japanese counterparts Octavia vs Corolla,Palio vs Wagon R,Santro.

But a Lexus GS is better built than a VW Passat.
Again, I'm sure you are talking based on perception. Have you owned or extensively driven an Octavia, Corolla, Santro, or Wagon R? The Wagon R has rattly plastics, in case you didn't know. But they are all way better built than their EU counterparts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
The Baleno may not rattle, but just make sure you never have an accident in it!
European New Car Assessment Programme: Safety Rating Details
Yes, it's a 13 year old car. Interestingly, the Mitsubishi Lancer is also as protective at 41%. And so is the European car, the Ford Escort 1.6 LX, at 41%. Thank you, Robin, for debunking the myth that European cars are more solid or safer than their Japanese rivals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by merve_extreme View Post
What facts,i have a Palio 1.6 and my relatives have a new wagon R.just few days back the owners 3 year old son climed on the wagon R's bonet and there were 2 dents on the bonet.

My 2 1/2 year old cousin climbs on my cars bonet and roof virtually everyday but there are no dents.
If you stand on the crossbar of a bicycle, it won't dent. Does that mean a bicycle is safer than a Wagon R? Or is your Palio as safe as a bicycle?!

It's called a crumple zone. I would rather be stuck in a Wagon R than a Palio if I were to be in a crash. Or better still, an Indica or a Safari.

There is no point arguing with some of you Fiat guys. You are blinded by your own faith. Good fun though, especially with your leader and crew chief TURBOSAM.

Last edited by adya33 : 24th April 2007 at 08:08.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:52   #131
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
The same can be said of the Ambassador. This isnt getting anywhere.

FACTS mean proven safety ratings, crashworthiness, et al. Not somebody's kid walking over someone else's car.
That is the built of a vehicle,

a car with superb metal strength and strong chassis will have a poor saftey rating than a flimsy built vehicle with 2 airbags.The passive safety structure is just one componet on the cars safety and most test put more emphasis on active than passive safety.

and as palio is not sold in europe and there are no saftery tests in brazil and india i cannot provide u any details or crash tests.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:53   #132
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why are we getting into the Euro vs Jap debate again? As Steer mentioned, there is a thread for that.

v1p3r, you edit your posts way too soon! There are dozens of cars out there with good and bad ratings. lets not get into a game of trump cards shall we. The fact is you brought in your Baleno and the bit about stating facts, hence my post.

Last edited by Rtech : 23rd April 2007 at 23:54.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 23:56   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
If you stand on the crossbar of a bicycle, it won't dent. Does that mean a bicycle is safer than a Wagon R? Or is your Palio as safe as a bicycle?!

It's called a crumple zone. I would rather be stuck in a Wagon R than a Palio if I were to be in a crash. Or better still, an Indica or a Safari.

There is no point arguing with some of you Fiat guys. You are blinded by your own faith. Good fun though, especially with your leader and crew chief TURBOSAM.
when u get down to personal levels just to humilate others it shows what the worth is.

next time compare a cycle to a plastic toy.

Its ur personal choice is you want to be in a Wagon R,I'd rather be in a safer vehicle.
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Old 24th April 2007, 00:01   #134
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Didn't want to post again on this thread, but since my name was called

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtech View Post
v1p3r, you edit your posts way too soon! There are dozens of cars out there with good and bad ratings. lets not get into a game of trump cards shall we. The fact is you brought in your Baleno and the bit about stating facts, hence my post.
Edit? I didn't quite get that. Yes, Rt, I know there are other cars, a lot of which are better. I was pointing out that the Baleno seems to be par for the course, considering its overall score is the same as the Lancer and the Escort, the Escort being a European car. It irritates me to see irresponsible statements and generalisations being made. But hey, that's just the way it is!

A lot of my questions still remain unanswered...
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Old 24th April 2007, 00:07   #135
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Robin putting up a few pics of a baleno crash .. The car at over 150km/hr lost control and went into what was a dried up lake about 10 feet deep from the road , toppled over 9 times before coming to a halt upside down on the way hitting bolders and a light pole .. The car also uprooted 3 milestones .. I for one couldn't believe the nature of impact .. But to my surprise , the car crumpled beautifully and here is the result :



And this is the guy who was driving the car .. I hope by now you recognize the driver and the car ..


Both memo and jay came out of this scratchless .. Have seen much worse cases at accidents half the speed or in cars perceived to be better built ..

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 24th April 2007 at 00:09.
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