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Old 22nd April 2007, 18:23   #151
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both the diesel and petrol even share the same instrument panel. which means the tacho for the diesel goes upto 7000rpm.

cost cutting is evident every where. and whats with the huge bulb in the front wiper. looks so funny. worst was the engine bay. non of the edges were smoothened out or folded in. was so sharp and easy to cut your hands.
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Old 22nd April 2007, 20:49   #152
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Undoubtedly. They do charge a premium for the brand. But then, Honda and Toyota have built their reputation on historically providing reliable, all-rounded and customer-centric products. There is a reason why Toyota will very soon take the no.1 worldwide sales position very soon.
Almost every company who have build themselves charge a premium. Maruti charge a premium for Alto and its Cars. Xeta is cheaper than Alto and better in features etc but still Alto is higher in price and people buy it.

Ford still charge a premium for Fiesta as they know their competitors are way behind them (NHC not included).

Skoda also charge a alot. So its common that a company whose product is good, famous will charge a premium.
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Old 22nd April 2007, 23:21   #153
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6. remote fuel cap is present, good. no remote boot release - bad boy renault.
11. cost cutting again, no remote boot release, so opened the boot with key only - and almost 2 people can sleep in the boot, great work!
Here is an excerpt from the review of Logan in HT:

The cost cutting is evident only if you look hard. There is one reverse light instead of two and when the makers went about shifting the steering wheel from the left of the original to right of the Indian version, they forgot to shift the hood release hatch with it!!
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Old 23rd April 2007, 12:12   #154
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1. There is one reverse light instead of two 2. and when the makers went about shifting the steering wheel from the left of the original to right of the Indian version, they forgot to shift the hood release hatch with it!!
1. A large number of other cars have one reverse light - Including Indica/ go . NHC , Fords etc..

2. Ford Fiesta even today has hood release on LHS ..some Opels had it earlier..common trait with many european cars which later come to India.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 13:43   #155
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1. A large number of other cars have one reverse light - Including Indica/ go . NHC , Fords etc..

The Indica/go we have had certainly had 2 reverse lights.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 13:46   #156
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Well some do. Like mine. But somewhere along the line indica lost one reverse light, not the indigo through.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 13:46   #157
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Sajo, its the new v2 Indicas (clear lens onwards).
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Old 23rd April 2007, 16:36   #158
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Its a new standard to have only one reverse light. Nothing to do with cost cutting.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 16:43   #159
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The other slot is for the reverse fog lamp by rule. It lights up the kerb when backing and parking.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 21:13   #160
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idofsuresh -
that's news. If that is the case, shouldn't the fog lamp be on the left side as in India, drivers generally park on the left hand side.
And also, if it is a rule, why don't other car manufacturers offer the same?

Anyways, so i went to check out the Logan today and though i wasn't dissapointed (T-BHP prepared me for the worst), i was quite shocked at the appalling quality.
Though i did not drive it (17 years) i saw it and sat in it and examined all the other features and build quality.
While the build quality is quite nice and the passengers have little reason to complain thanks to the space available, the rest of the car is horrendous.
The interiors are made of really hard plastic and the beige theme on lower models looks really tacky and will definitely get dirty quite fast given indian conditions.
The air con vents look really similar to the Fiesta's but aren't as easy to move around.
Also, the bumper finish is really really poor and looks like an accident touch up job. This is quite visible in the sahara beige color.
Also, as the following pics will show, quality isn't up to the mark either.

The rear bumper was sticking out. Didn't gel with the body and didn't look factory fit. Same case with the front bumpers




The following pics are of the HUGE panel gaps -
between the tail lamp and the trunk




The trunk and the rest of the body. Again looks like an accident job as the trunk is misaligned


Also, the wipers were inverted and were built for LHD versions. Would affect driveability in Indian conditions


However, i cannot comment on the driveability, performance, Ride and Handling as i didn't drive the car.
Also the service at NBS International was quite pathetic and people were made to wait even though the crowd wasn't much (4 - 5 people/families).

The prices have been quoted elsewhere but ill just compare them with other cars.

The base model - 1.4 GL retails for 5L on road Mumbai and only offers ac and there aren't any models that this can be compared with.

The 1.4 GLE however, which comes with PS and AC but no power windows, retails for 5.5 OTR Mumbai which is quite sad.
According to ACI, the Ikon Flair retails for 5.6 OTR Mumbai, without factoring any discounts, and that comes fully loaded with AC, PS, PW and even offers beige interiors. The Ikon even offers a much more comfortable backseat (IMHO) and better service.
Similarly, the Tata Indigo GLX retails for 5.63L OTR Mumbai and comes fully loaded too, offering the same pros as the Ikon + an even better rear seat.
Needless to say, build quality of both these cars are much better than that of the Logan.

The top end petrol logan (1.6 GLS) retails for 6.6L and is fully loaded with AC, PS, PW and a music system.
However, in comparison, the Tata Indigo GLX comes at 6.53L and trumps the Logan's trump card of VFM with leather seats and alloys and a DVD player along with its other pros.
And at this price, even the fiesta 1.4 EXI (6.37L) and Aveo Base (6.97L) and Accent 1.6 GLS (6.74L) enter, offering better VFM and much better overall vehicles than the Logan, though they do not offer the driver side Airbag which is present in the Logan.
One can even take into consideration the newly launched Fiesta 1.4 ZXi petrol which would be around Logans price after discounts, and this variant offers a music system and electrically adjustable ORVMs.

Now, coming to the Diesel Logan.
The base Logan Diesel - GLE - is priced at 6.4L OTR and that puts it bang in the Indigo LX (fully loaded) territory which is priced at 6.12L.

The top of the line diesel Logan comes at 7.5L and though it has all the essential features, it is way too overpriced.
The fiesta Diesel - 1.4 EXi - is priced at 8.15L OTR and is a much better car offering much better technology and quality than the Logan, therefore translating into higher savings in the future.
Similarly, the Tata Indigo SX diesel, which offers leather and DVD player and alloys is for around 7L and trumps the Logan in every possible way except for engine.
Even the Accent VIVA CRDi is priced at 7.8L OTR and comes fully loaded.

Mind You, all the prices of the Logan were taken from the showroom and the other vehicles from ACI.
Also, the other vehicle prices do not include discounts, so imagine the prices after discounts


So overall, would i reccommend the Logan to anyone?
NO!
It seems that Mahindra - Renault will go the PAL - Peugeot way.
Apologies for the long post.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 21:16   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SuperSyn View Post
Amongst the data collected on the annual incomes, age etc of likely customers, very early it became clear that the largest segment of customers for this platform would be women/female drivers (in addition to any men/male, of course).
There's someone else?

Car manufacturers seem to be getting a bit wimpy! BTW the NHC was never meant to be a performance car. It is amongst the cheapest cars sold from the Honda Stable. Honda always made cars with refined performance. just that they were terribly boring looking, and hence they earned the term "dull-ightful". They sorted that out with their new found obsession with sharks and dolphins. Helps that their vehicles are solidly put together, even if they do appear a tad delicate.

IMO, I think we perceive, more than see, reality. We're approaching the Logan as an el-cheapo car meant for ferrying pigs. And our fault finding mission might hijack an otherwise worthwhile driving experience. For all you know, it probably drives as well or better than anything else at the same price, but we're not going to let ourselves know that.

I was at the Logan showroom in Bangalore on the day it was launched. There was just one other interested buyer! (Ok two, they were a couple). The dude mentioned that "in aaahl his yiuhrrs in the Yooess, i've neverr hurd of Rennaahlt".

I'm not in the market for a car, and even if I were, the Logan is not for me, but I was not put off by the car. I think M&M have identified their market well. The evolving Indian middle class has an obsession with Sedans, Saloons and anything that comes with a boot (Maybe ford should have put a faux one on the Fusion). But at the same time, the average buyer is conservative (look at all those lovely white sedans), does not want to buy, or wear anything flambouyant, because they're AFRAID to be living out of their skin, even if they had the money to do so. And when it comes to expensive purchases, where the stakes are high, we'd rather go maximise what we're getting. We'd go with whoever offers the most bells and whistles that look important on paper - read space, mileage, and accessories.

I'm generalising here but many Indians would not know driving pleasure even if they went to an appreciation class for it. But I do agree, M&M SHOULD have priced it at, or about, the same price as the Indigo if they really wanted to take that market away.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 21:40   #162
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Just found the brochure in my room and had a good laugh.
They are actually comparing the size of the Logan to much bigger and better cars like the Optra, Corolla and even the Merc C Class.
It is under the caption -
The Proof is in the Numbers
and they have compared the Corolla, City, Optra and C Class in terms of width, boot space and height.
Wish they had compared engine output, performance, FE, features and seat space and all too.
Will try and scan it if i can find a scanner or if someone who has the brochure could pls upload it.

PS - apologies for the quality of the pics in my previous post. They were taken by my cell - nokia 6630.

Just a thought. If these prices are introductory prices (don't all manufacturers offer them ust when they launch a model?), what would the prices be after a month or two?
+ 15 - 20K?

Last edited by lamborghini : 23rd April 2007 at 21:43.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 21:42   #163
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Car is developed to be built using manual jigs and not robots etc. Hence misaligned panel fit. However, the customer is willing to pay for this and cheap plastic for a price....a much lower one.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 21:46   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by w 12 View Post
1. A large number of other cars have one reverse light - Including Indica/ go . NHC , Fords etc..

2. Ford Fiesta even today has hood release on LHS ..some Opels had it earlier..common trait with many european cars which later come to India.
1 - Ford had initially only one reverse light on the Ikon in 1999 - 2000 but they later changed it to both reverse lights.
Even the NHC has both reverse lights except for the VTEC and i think the new Indica also has 2 reverse lights.
Also, in the case of the Ikon and the NHC VTEC, the reverse light is on the right side and the fog lamp on the left.
In this case, it is simply cost cutting.
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Old 23rd April 2007, 22:36   #165
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From the many threads on the Logan, I gather that the big complaint is that the car is no pageant winner and lacks power. Well, a little imagination and a lot of money can get you this:






Check more out at:
logan tuning - Google -- Recherche d'images

Last edited by vcash : 23rd April 2007 at 22:40.
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