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Old 20th April 2007, 15:50   #121
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Problem for the Logan is that the Indigo does the point A to B job pretty well too. And cheaper by a significant margin.
The problem with Indigo is that its a TATA and hence no snob value (Logan is a Renault) and the fact that its not a 3 box sedan in truest sense of word.. the add-on boot looks hideous. Logan overall is a better can than Indigo... although it is built for a price, but the fact remains that it was designed to carry 5 and loads of luggage on almost non-existent roads and hence is vey or rather "feels" robust.
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Old 20th April 2007, 16:34   #122
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1. I said fiesta gives 18 - 20 easily to us in City with AC and the price difference is just 30K between the 2 cars.

2. I said and your car have has so small engine it should give better FE than this

3. According to him fiesta is 65BHP coz he says 68PS = 65BHP LMAO.

Just to set the record straight

1, Base Fiesta diesel EX is 6.96 lacs exshowroom delhi..( diesel ZXi is 7.42 lacs and diesel sxi is 8.02 lacs ) . base logan is 5.47 lacs ex mumbai , and top end is 6.43,,the difference for a similarly specced car is much more than 30 K

2. Fored fiesta - 1399 cc diesel , Logan 1500 cc diesel..and 1399 < 1500

3, He got it right almost..see the earlier post
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Old 20th April 2007, 16:50   #123
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Just to set the record straight

1, Base Fiesta diesel EX is 6.96 lacs exshowroom delhi..( diesel ZXi is 7.42 lacs and diesel sxi is 8.02 lacs ) . base logan is 5.47 lacs ex mumbai , and top end is 6.43,,the difference for a similarly specced car is much more than 30 K

2. Fored fiesta - 1399 cc diesel , Logan 1500 cc diesel..and 1399 < 1500

3, He got it right almost..see the earlier post
1. Well we went to get the quote of Fiesta 1.4 Exi and they quoted 6.84 with discount. And logan price he quoted us was 6.55

2. I agree but Skoda is 1.9 and Verna also gives good FE being 1.5

3. I told him that its around 66+ but he didn't agreed that is why i posted. And he is 101% sure that Logan refinements levels r better than Fiesta without even driving it. We asked him whether he has driven it or not.

Last edited by abhibh : 20th April 2007 at 16:51.
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Old 20th April 2007, 17:37   #124
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The problem with Indigo is that its a TATA and hence no snob value (Logan is a Renault)
I can assure you that any car maker starting at the position of a "cheap car" will have little snob value. Renault is an unknown commodity in India, and the Logan does carry the Mahindra tag. I really wouldnt associate any snob value with this brand.

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and the fact that its not a 3 box sedan in truest sense of word.. the add-on boot looks hideous.
Despite its Indica-derived looks, I think that the Indigo is far better and more modern looking than the Logan. But then, looks are subjective and to each his own.

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although it is built for a price, but the fact remains that it was designed to carry 5 and loads of luggage on almost non-existent roads
Undoubtedly the Logan is very very robust. But the Indigo is not fragile either and is known to take a good amount of abuse.

See, the target segments for the Indigo and Logan are the ones who are looking at value. And the basic Logan just doesnt seem to offer value at 6.5 lacs for a base diesel and 7.5 for a not-so-fully-loaded version.

Lets see what the market decides.
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Old 20th April 2007, 18:56   #125
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geeksrik : just saw this topic and went thru your post, ie, post no 1..

still have to go thru other 123 posts.. one thing i wanted to point out, when i drove the car, one thing which stuck me was how good the gearbox was. You didnt say anything about the 'box in post no 1.. how did you find the 'box to be?

Last edited by BunnyPunia : 20th April 2007 at 18:57.
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Old 20th April 2007, 19:43   #126
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No fuel gauge. No temperature gauge.
Correct me if I am wrong (also in which case, this post is irrelevant), but isn't it true that the New Honda City does not offer a temperature gauge too, neither analog nor digital ?? Also I don't believe the NHC also offers ABS or airbag(s), correct ??? while a supposedly "low-cost" world car at least offers an airbag on its higher end model at a premium.

Then why these double standards ??? How come Honda isn't labelled cheap ??

Not that I am defending the Logan. Frankly, I am not impressed with it, but I am curious to know why Honda should get away with a similar level of cheapness and charge a premium for it to boot.

Last edited by hell_rider : 20th April 2007 at 19:45.
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Old 20th April 2007, 20:03   #127
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Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
Correct me if I am wrong (also in which case, this post is irrelevant), but isn't it true that the New Honda City does not offer a temperature gauge too, neither analog nor digital ?? Also I don't believe the NHC also offers ABS or airbag(s), correct ??? while a supposedly "low-cost" world car at least offers an airbag on its higher end model at a premium.

Then why these double standards ??? How come Honda isn't labelled cheap ??

Not that I am defending the Logan. Frankly, I am not impressed with it, but I am curious to know why Honda should get away with a similar level of cheapness and charge a premium for it to boot.
Giving Airbags in Alto wont make it a better car than Swift without airbags
I applaud them giving safety features, but that dont mean that their product inherently aint cheap and made of low quality material. Honda City on the otherhand is a different story. Wanna know why? Caz I said so
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Old 20th April 2007, 20:11   #128
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Giving Airbags in Alto wont make it a better car than Swift without airbags
I applaud them giving safety features, but that dont mean that their product inherently aint cheap and made of low quality material. Honda City on the otherhand is a different story. Wanna know why? Caz I said so
perhaps I wasn't clear enough...

I am not talking about specific car models per se. I am talking about cheap attitudes w.r.t. manufacturers. which is why I pointed to the NHC to illustrate Honda's attitude as well, which to me, is worse off as compared to M&M|Renault

and since you did raise the point, I am inclined to believe, an Alto with an airbag would certainly be safer ("better" is too ambiguous without a context) by some degree , however marginal, as compared to a Swift without one.

Last edited by hell_rider : 20th April 2007 at 20:14.
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Old 21st April 2007, 02:46   #129
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All Renault cars have 5 Star NCAP rankings and none other car have this ranking including FIAT, MERC etc etc etc.. haha.
European New Car Assessment Programme: Safety Ratings Check for the Dacia Logan (not Renault, mind you - Renault never seems to sell this as a Renault Logan) - it says 3 stars very clearly.
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Old 21st April 2007, 03:45   #130
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I think Mahindra and Renault are in for a shocker with the Logan.
Let us hope so!

Mahindra, Renault and through these two the rest of the automobile industry will learn an important lesson: Indian consumers, at least in this segment, are not cheap, just value conscious. This car is poor value.

Either improve the car dramatically, or reduce the price drastically. We all know what is going to happen in near future.

I can also see some 'tensions' developing between the two partners. Renault are very French, in every sense of the word. Good times are ahead, my friends! I am going to enjoy this show.
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Old 21st April 2007, 04:26   #131
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Originally Posted by hell_rider View Post
Correct me if I am wrong (also in which case, this post is irrelevant), but isn't it true that the New Honda City does not offer a temperature gauge too, neither analog nor digital ?? Also I don't believe the NHC also offers ABS or airbag(s), correct ??? while a supposedly "low-cost" world car at least offers an airbag on its higher end model at a premium.

Then why these double standards ??? How come Honda isn't labelled cheap ??
I can answer for the lack of a proper temperature gauge in NHC.

It has *nothing* to do with cost cutting. When developing this platform Honda did studies and in Europe, UK particularly, about its specifications and how it will be marketed etc. They were trying to find out who will be the target consumers of this platform, given its size, configuration, performance, likely price etc.

Amongst the data collected on the annual incomes, age etc of likely customers, very early it became clear that the largest segment of customers for this platform would be women/female drivers (in addition to any men/male, of course). Like any other successful manufacturer, Honda went out and started asking the potential customers questions to tailor the product to their demands and expectations.

Believe it or not, the temperature gauge was deleted after some women/female participants in the study complained that they found it un-necessary, and that it needlessly cluttered and complicated the instrument panel.

The solution was to have a 'simple' lamp instead of a 'complicated' gauge.

I can only presume that a *significant* portion of the target customers would have made this point for Honda to take this step.
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Old 21st April 2007, 10:27   #132
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geeksrik : just saw this topic and went thru your post, ie, post no 1..

still have to go thru other 123 posts.. one thing i wanted to point out, when i drove the car, one thing which stuck me was how good the gearbox was. You didnt say anything about the 'box in post no 1.. how did you find the 'box to be?
The gear box in the logan was very slightly notchy, but i could still switch the gears quite efficiently. it was quite slick otherwise. but when you add the clutch depress problem that i stated, you tend to miss the gears a bit at times. but this is a problem with the clutch floor area, rather than the gear box. in fact the logan does have its positives, like the good engine (which never gets tired too soon, maybe up until 120+), good pull with a/c on etc, and a few other things.
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Old 21st April 2007, 10:29   #133
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I can only presume that a *significant* portion of the target customers would have made this point for Honda to take this step.
just to carry this discussion a bit more, why then does honda not include airbags at even GXI models, when renault was cautious enough to give atleast one airbag!? and no ABS too on NHC??
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Old 21st April 2007, 11:04   #134
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just to carry this discussion a bit more, why then does honda not include airbags at even GXI models, when renault was cautious enough to give atleast one airbag!? and no ABS too on NHC??
hondas coming out with abs and airbags when they upgrade the city in a few months time.
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Old 21st April 2007, 11:48   #135
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Originally Posted by SuperSyn View Post

It has *nothing* to do with cost cutting.

, the temperature gauge was deleted after some women/female participants in the study complained that they found it un-necessary, and that it needlessly cluttered and complicated the instrument panel.

The solution was to have a 'simple' lamp instead of a 'complicated' gauge.
If NHC does not have a temperature gauge , it is beacuse of "customer feedback". If logan does not have one , it is beacuse Logan is cheap...

Logan also may have similar customer feedback..isnt it?
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