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Old 11th July 2007, 23:11   #181
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Originally Posted by uttamc View Post
Whatever the case - don't advertise a product that doesn't exist.

So they have 2 choices as i see it

1. Fix the immobiliser

2. Don't charge me for it (or in this case, return the value of the immobiliser that you charged me for)

or secret option 3 that fiat may choose which is to do nothing about it. :P
I think an "option" 4 should also exist, regardless of what other option they choose.

4. Immediately -
- Remove the mention of the immobilizer from the website
- Remove the immobilizer option from the brochures (this could mean a reprint, or more likely > an order from HQs to get every dealer to get a black/red marker and cancel out that option on all pamphlets and brochures.)

Same applies for leather steering and gearknob (if they do not plan to offer it)

This will benefit more people in the future.

cya
R
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Old 12th July 2007, 06:34   #182
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Originally Posted by Rehaan View Post
I think an "option" 4 should also exist, regardless of what other option they choose.

4. Immediately -
- Remove the mention of the immobilizer from the website
- Remove the immobilizer option from the brochures (this could mean a reprint, or more likely > an order from HQs to get every dealer to get a black/red marker and cancel out that option on all pamphlets and brochures.)

Same applies for leather steering and gearknob (if they do not plan to offer it)

This will benefit more people in the future.

cya
R
Fiat has sent emails to all their dealers asking them to do exactly what you suggested Rehaan - black out the leather stuff and the immobilizer - Not sure how many dealers are following this though, but Manipal is - this is how they were able to convince me that my car wasn't a one-off.

The funny thing though is - they haven't done anything about it on the website - looks like Fiat has more control over its dealers than it has on their websites! :-)

cheers!
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Old 13th July 2007, 15:19   #183
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Here's the communication i've had with Ricky Walters of FIAT while asking about / for the immobilizer in the stile 1.6

-------------------

Hi Ricky / Abhijeet,

I recently bought a fiat palio stile 1.6 from Shaman Motors, Prabhadevi, Mumbai and was shocked to see that the car was delivered without standard features promised on the brochure//website/dealership before delivery.

These features namely are:
1. Leather wrapped steering wheel
2. Leather Gearknob

And what i noticed missing later on,
3. Engine Immobiliser

After fighting for what was due to me i got the leather steering wheel and gearknob at my car's first service. I am still awaiting feedback on the engine immobilizer. I see no reason why i should be charged for features that are not delivered, not to mention it is extremely unethical of fiat to advertise features (whether it be intentional or a mistake) that at not delivered.

I have a dated brochure of the palio with me that clearly indicates that all 3 of the above mentioned features are included in the car. I am also attaching a screenshot of the fiat-india website that TILL 2 DAYS AGO claimed a leather steering wheel / gearknob and engine immobiliser are standard features on the stile 1.6 sport.

I hope the you can work out an acceptable solution and resolve the issue quickly and amicably.

Awaiting your response,
Uttam

P.S. You may want to read my thread on www.team-bhp.com (India's most popular automotive forum) on what the entire fiat experience is all about. The thread has already received over 7000 views and is still going strong. It is generating a lot of steam among prospective Fiat Buyers. Please do check out the thread for a consumer insight (just in case you do care about the quality of product you're delivering and intend to better it).

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/new-indian-car-test-drives/24969-palio-stile-sports-1-6-owners-review.html




-----------------

Rickys Response:

Dear Abhijeet.

We are happy that you have joined the Fiat family. We are sure you will enjoy everybit of driving the Palio Stile 1.6 Sport.

We are extremly sorry that we will not be able to install immobiliser in the 1.6 Sport, as the engine system was not developed for the same. As there was a communication error internally the feature was wrongly published for 1.6.

We regret once again for the inconvenience.

Warm regards & Happy driving.

Ricky


---------------

My response to Ricky:

Hi Ricky,

My name is Uttam, and i am the owner of the Palio Stile 1.6 - not Abhijeet.

I am currently enjoying every bit of driving the palio 1.6 sport, but am not enjoying the fact that i was cheated by fiat. It's all very easy to say that 'there was a communication error internally', but Fiat is still responsible for promising and charging me for advertised features that aren't included in the final package.

Are none of the Fiat Torque series engines capable of including a fairly standard security feature such as an Engine Immobilizer (which can easily be installed by third party anti-theft devices)?

If that is the case, why was i charged Rs. 500,000 for a car that seemed to come loaded with features? I got my car without a petty leather steering, and gearknob that i had to fight for! Why doesn't fiat go out of its way and advertise a 2 litre engine and a sunroof in the palio sport and then deliver a 1.6 litre engine as well? After all, its just false promises anyway!

Are these fiats new methods of cost cutting?

Also, i had mentioned in my previous mail, and i quote " I hope the you can work out an acceptable solution and resolve the issue quickly and amicably." The response you have provided is far from being an acceptable solution and is not a resolution.

Looking forward to a prompt reply.

Regards,
Uttam


---------------

His final reply:

Dear Uttam

Regret for addressing it to the wrong person.

The immobiliser available in the market is different than that provided by the manufacturers. Technically there is no system available in the 1.6 engine to meet this requirment. So there is no way we can find a solution for retro fit on the car.

As the cost of immobiliser was not taken into account while doing the costing, there has been no extra charg calculated. Hence the question of cheating does not arise. As already explained this was a mistake, and the same has been communicated to the network.

Regards.

Last edited by uttamc : 13th July 2007 at 15:21.
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Old 13th July 2007, 15:32   #184
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Uttam, the guys documenting the Specs/Features are humans too, and so mistakes do happen! Leave it at that!

I am sure you would agree that Palio 1.6 Sports even without Engine immoblizer is a Great Value for Money!
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Old 13th July 2007, 15:54   #185
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Uttam, the guys documenting the Specs/Features are humans too, and so mistakes do happen! Leave it at that!
Why do you say that Finney? Anybody including you will feel cheated. I would surely not have reacted as politely as Uttam did and I would have made it very difficult for them.
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Old 13th July 2007, 17:15   #186
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Negligence, carelessness is what it's called as it took 3-4 for months for them to realize since the brochures issued.

If it was in their notice, atleast they could have asked all the dealership to cover that immobilizer portion with white ink or a small sticky thing.

There's no point in pacifying about it now.
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Old 13th July 2007, 17:20   #187
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Uttam, Had a question for you. In my zen, there is an intermediate position between complete ignition off, and engine run. In this middle position, all electricals of the car would work, but the engine wouldn't be turning. However, in my stile, there seems to be just two positions - one where all electricals are off, and the other where the engine is running. This has made life irritating at signals and at other times when i need to kill the engine - because as soon as i do it, the audio switches off. I have to bring the key back to the "engine on" position for the audio to come back to life. When the signal turns green, and i need to start the car, the double-crank prevention irritates further, and i have to switch the ignition off, and then turn the engine. Is it just me, or is it the same with your car as well? Can anything be done about it - in terms of wiring, so that HU doesn't switch off when i kill the engine?

There is another feature on Palios and Petras, whereby you can turn the key in the anticlockwise direction, past off after pressing a small button on the face of the key hole circle. As soon as you do this, lights come on. I am not sure right now, but I think you can even remove the key from the keyhole without the lights going out.
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Old 13th July 2007, 17:27   #188
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Originally Posted by prabuddhadg View Post
There is another feature on Palios and Petras, whereby you can turn the key in the anticlockwise direction, past off after pressing a small button on the face of the key hole circle. As soon as you do this, lights come on. I am not sure right now, but I think you can even remove the key from the keyhole without the lights going out.
Interesting to know. Let me try this feature today. I wondered what that small button was there for. Did you try this yourself?
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Old 13th July 2007, 17:28   #189
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Originally Posted by prabuddhadg View Post
There is another feature on Palios and Petras, whereby you can turn the key in the anticlockwise direction, past off after pressing a small button on the face of the key hole circle. As soon as you do this, lights come on. I am not sure right now, but I think you can even remove the key from the keyhole without the lights going out.
Yes thats true, and you can take the Key out also.
This feature is to put the parking lights on.
Thingy,
HU going off is because your HU Power cable may be connected to the ignition circuit. You can ask the installer to make changes and run the HU directly from Battery.
GD

Last edited by greatDrive : 13th July 2007 at 17:29.
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Old 13th July 2007, 17:37   #190
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Interesting to know. Let me try this feature today. I wondered what that small button was there for. Did you try this yourself?
Yes the manual mentions it too. Not that I use it though. The car gets stuffy the moment you shut off the engine, and I do not want the A/c running off the battery.
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Old 13th July 2007, 17:42   #191
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Yes the manual mentions it too. Not that I use it though. The car gets stuffy the moment you shut off the engine, and I do not want the A/c running off the battery.
Don't worry, A/C never runs with the battery. When you switch off th engine, A/C turns off and only the blower works.
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Old 13th July 2007, 17:46   #192
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Great info prabuddhadg and greatdrive. I wish I knew this before. Did you guys know that you cannot turn off the headlights using the stalk when the stalk is at highbeam and you cannot turn them to highbeam unless the lights are on?
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Old 13th July 2007, 17:55   #193
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Originally Posted by uttamc View Post
The rear screen defogger was delivered. So was the 1.6 litre engine and 5 tyres
Did the chassie go missing as well ?

Finney, its daylight robbery not a human error. What if the members here hadn't found out? We would all be in the dark still? Fiat would have still continued marketing the same?

Last edited by mclaren1885 : 13th July 2007 at 17:57.
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Old 13th July 2007, 18:02   #194
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Don't worry, A/C never runs with the battery. When you switch off th engine, A/C turns off and only the blower works.
My mistake. That's what I meant to say. Why tax the battery for some economy and comfort and reduce battery life, which can be discovered in the most inconvenient ways, like at a busy signal at rush hour.
By the way, the A/c indicator light remains on after switching off the ignition.

Last edited by prabuddhadg : 13th July 2007 at 18:06.
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Old 13th July 2007, 18:04   #195
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Great info prabuddhadg and greatdrive. I wish I knew this before. Did you guys know that you cannot turn off the headlights using the stalk when the stalk is at highbeam and you cannot turn them to highbeam unless the lights are on?
Yes moral, I have tried that. These small details are what make me love my car more and more each day. Its good to know how much care goes into designing the car I so love driving.
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