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Old 6th October 2007, 09:16   #16
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Originally Posted by ravibhat View Post
Thats right Anshuman I felt the same! With new interiors Safari will attract professionals too I feel who expect vehicle with beige interiors.

Its good vehicle except for its niggles.

One thing I noticed now a days many politicians are using Innova rather than Safari. May be its because of minor niggling issues Safari had in the past. I hope new Safari 2.2 should attract them.

Regards,

Ravi.
Last month i went to ladakh in a innova and believe me it cant match safari for comfort.

Last edited by .anshuman : 6th October 2007 at 09:19.
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Old 6th October 2007, 09:38   #17
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Originally Posted by ScarySkulls View Post
Does it feel faster? NO

Has TATA deliberately limited the engine's potential for the first production run...?? (ala the 3.0L DICOR??) DEFINITELY SEEMS SO.
Dont you think that its shows quality of the product if you don't feel its going fast?

And heard the 2.2L was electronically limited to 160kmph.
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Old 6th October 2007, 09:45   #18
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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Last month i went to ladakh in a innova and believe me it cant match safari for comfort.
well obviously it cant match the safari off road. its an muv and the safari is an suv.
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Old 6th October 2007, 09:47   #19
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Originally Posted by overdose14 View Post
tyres are now 245 tubeless and there is a 10 mm increase in ground clearance.
You are sure about 245? The specs still says 235/70 R 16, 105 S and does not mention tubeless. I am guessing they have done cut-n-paste from the old specs.

We know they are Bridgestone Duelers, but what size? 235/70R16 or 245/70R16 ? And on what width alloy, 6.5J or 7J?
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Old 6th October 2007, 09:51   #20
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Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
well obviously it cant match the safari off road. its an muv and the safari is an suv.
i am talking about the on road comfort with mild to deep potholes,the way safari eats up potholes is superb,innova's low travel suspension is good for just well paved highways and urban roads.

Last edited by .anshuman : 6th October 2007 at 09:52.
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Old 6th October 2007, 09:52   #21
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i am talking about the on road comfort .
ok. since you mentioned ladakh i just thought it wouldnt be much on road.
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Old 6th October 2007, 09:52   #22
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You are sure about 245? The specs still says 235/70 R 16, 105 S and does not mention tubeless. I am guessing they have done cut-n-paste from the old specs.

We know they are Bridgestone Duelers, but what size? 235/70R16 or 245/70R16 ? And on what width alloy, 6.5J or 7J?
Quote:
Tubeless Tyres:

The new Safari features tyres that donít immediately deflate after a flat. Which means that whenever you have one, you can simply drive up to the nearest repair shop without any trouble
Here's the link which says now tubeless tyres.

TATA Motors - Safari DICOR
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Old 6th October 2007, 09:54   #23
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
You are sure about 245? The specs still says 235/70 R 16, 105 S and does not mention tubeless. I am guessing they have done cut-n-paste from the old specs.

We know they are Bridgestone Duelers, but what size? 235/70R16 or 245/70R16 ? And on what width alloy, 6.5J or 7J?
Even i read 235 on the website and tata guys told me the same
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Old 6th October 2007, 09:55   #24
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Originally Posted by ScarySkulls View Post
But is it as much fun to drive? NO

Does it feel faster? NO

Does it have a too much linear power delivery for it's own good? YES
Why would a manufacturer deliberately make its NEW product feel worse? If anything they would go out of their way to make it feel better - they're in the business of SELLING cars.

Those that have driven the 2.2 before have maintained that the engine is a totally different animal altogether. I also dont see how the narrow-band 3.0 can be more fun to drive than a revvy 2.2. IMHO these observations are probably a result of:

1. 3.0 owner's subconscious justification of his own purchase.

2. Exceedingly high expectations.
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Old 6th October 2007, 10:07   #25
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Why would a manufacturer deliberately make its NEW product feel worse? If anything they would go out of their way to make it feel better - they're in the business of SELLING cars.

Those that have driven the 2.2 before have maintained that the engine is a totally different animal altogether. I also dont see how the narrow-band 3.0 can be more fun to drive than a revvy 2.2. IMHO these observations are probably a result of:

1. 3.0 owner's subconscious justification of his own purchase.

2. Exceedingly high expectations.
Even on my test drive i did not feel the seat of the pants push but there was a constant push and the time taken to reach speeds was lesser compared to 3.0.

The 3.0's power is all concentrated between 2000 and 3000 rpm thats what makes it feel punchy but the its very easy to hold a gear in the new 2.2 as the power is spread very nicely compared to 3.0.

Another strange thing 2.0TCIC is still available.
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Old 6th October 2007, 11:11   #26
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Or probably they are saying that the 3.0l was more torquey in all its gears, which is obvious since it was originally made to pull, whereas the 2.2l is refined just like cars freeflowing in the upper gears, if you need the pull shift to lower ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Why would a manufacturer deliberately make its NEW product feel worse? If anything they would go out of their way to make it feel better - they're in the business of SELLING cars.

Those that have driven the 2.2 before have maintained that the engine is a totally different animal altogether. I also dont see how the narrow-band 3.0 can be more fun to drive than a revvy 2.2. IMHO these observations are probably a result of:

1. 3.0 owner's subconscious justification of his own purchase.

2. Exceedingly high expectations.
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Old 6th October 2007, 12:37   #27
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Why would a manufacturer deliberately make its NEW product feel worse? If anything they would go out of their way to make it feel better - they're in the business of SELLING cars
That's Tata for you dear. If you know well, the earliest of the 3L DICORs were restricted to 150kmph speedo read. The engine would keep pulling well untill 150kmph and BANG! Brick Wall!
Those who have driven those earlier versions and then the later ones back to back will know what I mean when they see the Speedo easily fly past the 150 mark towards 180kmph speedo read.

Suggested reads in this regard
Guinea pig - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Development mule - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also see a classic example here from Indian Biking scene. Bajaj India. Another Indian manufacturer who likes to appoint the customers as test mules. How else would you explain it selling P220 in small small batches in Pune first and taking customer feedback before rectifying all faults for an all India launch?

The pics show a 1 week old Pulsar 200. Normal usage. Front shocker cracking problem that plagued it's bikes throughout India.




Thanks for reading this. I'm sure you are a more enlightened customer now.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Those that have driven the 2.2 before have maintained that the engine is a totally different animal altogether
Yes it is correct. Tata has built a Toyota. Engine is this much smooth and refined.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I also dont see how the narrow-band 3.0 can be more fun to drive than a revvy 2.2
OK. That's your perception.
In my book, top entries to the narrow band list will is the Old 90ps TDI motor and the Scorpio.

yes, the engine is free revving for a Tata motor. It will easily beat other SUV motors in this department also, I think.
If you like a diesel engine that produces power through high revvs, you will enjoy this car.

OT:- Try driving a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke bike back to back. Lets see what you enjoy more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
3.0 owner's subconscious justification of his own purchase.
Good point.

A small tip though. I dont own a safari. My views based on drive from home to showroom in a 3.0L Safari. Then test drive of the 2.2L. Then the drive back home in a 3.0L again.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
2. Exceedingly high expectations.
Probably. 140ps and 320Nm make everything look impressive.
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Old 6th October 2007, 13:01   #28
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Maybe a back to back testdrive's are in order,2.2 and 3.0l dicor same miles run, prefferably both run 10k.
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Old 6th October 2007, 13:08   #29
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Small additions to the original text by Overdose based on my perception.

Better Handling:- Due to firmer ride. AND lesser body roll. and that's LESSER.

Better city car:- Very linear power delivery. Can hold gears for longer. Plus point in city when your attention is more focussed on dodging the traffic rather then watching your shift points.
Gathers speed faster too.

Slightly less good highway car than 3L:-
3.0L has the definate edge in higher gears. Power is concentrated in the highway cruising RPM sweet spot. 2.2L doesnt push you in seat like the 3L everytime you floor it to overtake something.

Lesser antics possible:-
Difficult to break traction on corners in the 2.2L. Result:- Lesser late night fun with the drifts.
Also it is very difficult now to do burnouts. 3.0L lights up the rear tyres with LOTS more ease than the 2.2L

Moral of the story:-
Clearly, a more Urban usage focussed car now. Better ride. Better handling. Very Linear power delivery for city use.

And the best point about it? Tuning Potential. 32bit ECU. 16v DOHC. Variable vane turbo.
So, yes. The 3.0L will be missed for all its good points. But with a little bit of tuning, all the lost fun can definately be brought back into spirited driving.

Cheers!
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Old 6th October 2007, 13:40   #30
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Isnt this what ppl were wanting to get for all these years from the 3.0l. And now that they have it......

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScarySkulls View Post
Moral of the story:-
Clearly, a more Urban usage focussed car now. Better ride. Better handling. Very Linear power delivery for city use.
The 3.0l will not be available in safari, once the stocks get over. 3.0l safari is discontinued so no point beating around the bush. You can wait for its service in the Sumo though.

Last edited by dadu : 6th October 2007 at 13:47.
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