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Old 11th October 2007, 14:09   #16
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He politely replied saying Tata are carrying some checks on it. Wonder what he meant, the car was being worked upon and i was told not to start it.

In my TD report of the 2.2, I had mentioned the same thing- that there was a VX under"test/repair" at the dealer stockyard. since I was an existing 3.0 customer, the workshop guy confided in me what the problem was- a blown gasket!

wonder if that was the same problem with the VX you saw- it could explain y the dealer did not let you start the engine.
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Old 11th October 2007, 14:15   #17
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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
He politely replied saying Tata are carrying some checks on it. Wonder what he meant, the car was being worked upon and i was told not to start it.

In my TD report of the 2.2, I had mentioned the same thing- that there was a VX under"test/repair" at the dealer stockyard. since I was an existing 3.0 customer, the workshop guy confided in me what the problem was- a blown gasket!

wonder if that was the same problem with the VX you saw- it could explain y the dealer did not let you start the engine.
Yes, Some of the 2.2's have blown head gasket's ... i hear one of the dealer in Bangy has 4 of them in his workshop with the above problem ...
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Old 11th October 2007, 14:29   #18
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Hmm, are we to assume that there is a major problem with 2.2L that was discovered after they released it? Is that the reason why no dealer is showing any interest in actually selling it?

Since the dealers are not offering any information, we can only speculate. And boy, are we good at it!
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Old 11th October 2007, 14:49   #19
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Hmm, are we to assume that there is a major problem with 2.2L that was discovered after they released it? Is that the reason why no dealer is showing any interest in actually selling it?

Since the dealers are not offering any information, we can only speculate. And boy, are we good at it!
This is one car that has been in the making since... what, last 2 years maybe? In this period we saw enormous nos. of test mules captured on camera doing high speed testings. Would they not have discovered such a problem then? Just sending a car to the dealership and even before it is sold to anyone can probably not uncover a huge problem like this one. Speculation... as you rightly said. And we are definitely good at it.

On a hindsight, if after all the testing Microsoft's new Windows can crash during its world premier in front of Gates anything is possible.
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Old 11th October 2007, 14:52   #20
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yaar, drive 3.0l for a week and then you'll know why half of people at Team-Bhp are not that happy with new engine. 3.0L is completely different thing, so different that even BOSH had to redesign its ABS to suit DICOR.
its completely different. never you'll encounter a car with 3000 rpm limit. i think only DICOR has such small limit but that is its strength.
hit the gas pedal and truck surges forward with ease even above 100 in 4th or even in 5th.

no doubt new engine is more powerful but 138 horses are shy.

but in the end, even i would suggest new one by looking at other areas of improvement as other things also have to be taken into consideration.
I am not able to understand this thing on 3.0 L being a better engine than the 2.2 L. 3.0L owners please comment. I ve understood from this and the earlier extensive thread that 2.2L is more silent, has higher bhp and torque, more fuel efficient, smoother and faster. Then why is 3.0 L still better than the 2.2?
BTW I dont own a Safari.
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Old 11th October 2007, 14:54   #21
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Just sending a car to the dealership and even before it is sold to anyone can probably not uncover a huge problem like this one. Speculation... as you rightly said. And we are definitely good at it.
But the fact is that there is this problem that has been discovered. Busa saw a "WIP" 2.2, I saw one with a blown gasket, and now SUV mentiones that there are 4 in bangalore!

This really points at a larger malady.
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:01   #22
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We have a situation here, no new 3.0 production and 2.2l has problems.

So what is TATA MOTORS trying to say, "Look Elsewhere Sir, Work is in Progress".

Are they trying to give us a hint ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
But the fact is that there is this problem that has been discovered. Busa saw a "WIP" 2.2, I saw one with a blown gasket, and now SUV mentiones that there are 4 in bangalore!

This really points at a larger malady.
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:06   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Busa, excellent review, thanks! Looks like your heart is set on it but you're being a little wary about buying it - wise !



Absolutely correct reasoning but when the people saying the above actually own or have driven the 3.0L, then it becomes an actual comparison and not theory alone. And quite a few of the 3.0L drivers/owners have commented on the first gear engaging as well as the lack of grunt in 3rd & 4th gears (strong point of the 3.0 L).

But as I was saying to Nitin (Trance Nut) yesterday, there will always be a compromise - torque for city driving vs effortless pickup & cruising on open stretches.

(Yawn), like I said to Prajesh, one of these days I gotta check it out........
Go Suman go and give us a nice nifty review.

I was least impressed by the engine. I guess I need to test drive another one to come to a conclusion.
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:18   #24
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Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
Engine

The engine is fantastic, never felt underpowered at all, the car is very comfortable cruising at speeds of 120-140kmph, those who say that the 3.0 is better, well just check my signature. The NVH is very very good indeed and dare i say lesser noise then Swift Diesel
Did you take it over 3000 rpm? Its very noisy after 3k rpm.



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Gearbox

There were no issues with the gearbox, neither with first gear as reported by people on the forum, the clutch was totally fine. Who ever says the gearbox/clutch is heavy should realise this is a large diesel and its not right comparing diesel gearbox/clutch with petrol ones.
Even I didnt have any problem with the first gear as mentioned in the forum, but the stick lacked any sort of feedback. The throw was wide, especially the first gear. The feel through gear lever was like moving a stick through half set glue.

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Brakes

They were ok, wont say bad but i would rate them 7/10 Lack of ABS makes the tyres lock though on dusty roads and the weight plays a part in the locking up.
The brakes lack the initial bite too.

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Originally Posted by BUSA View Post
Handling

Yes, the handling was very good indeed, almost on par with the Innova, its very easy to make the truck drift. Buttttttttttttt, the poor steering feedback spoilt the handling to a great extent. On lower speeds the steering is very light which is good for City driving but on higher speeds its very very dangerous, no feedback at all, too light, Tata better work on this area ASAP. The car is stable thanks to its 2 ton weight.
The handling and steering is better than ever before but I wont compare it to an Innova. Easy drift cant even think about drifiting driving it!!
It still rolls, less than before definitely but you still cant take any liberties with it. Its still close to 2 meters in height, with high COG.


Here's my review http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/590802-post177.html
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:41   #25
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
This is one car that has been in the making since... what, last 2 years maybe? In this period we saw enormous nos. of test mules captured on camera doing high speed testings. Would they not have discovered such a problem then? Just sending a car to the dealership and even before it is sold to anyone can probably not uncover a huge problem like this one. Speculation... as you rightly said. And we are definitely good at it.

On a hindsight, if after all the testing Microsoft's new Windows can crash during its world premier in front of Gates anything is possible.

Well, as you said, anything is possible. If there is a problem, and its design related - usually last minute changes or tactical decisions are to blame for faulty products going out to the market.

Even though we've seen test mules for a long time, I'm sure that TATA has been working on the vehicle all through that time. Any change made down the line could result in an issue of a previously tested and approved part.

It could also just be poor QC from TATA's suppliers who has just recently started mass manufacture for the 2.2. These issues would not have shown up in the test mules as parts were not mass manufactured then.
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Old 11th October 2007, 15:55   #26
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Originally Posted by apachelongbow View Post
I am not able to understand this thing on 3.0 L being a better engine than the 2.2 L. 3.0L owners please comment. I ve understood from this and the earlier extensive thread that 2.2L is more silent, has higher bhp and torque, more fuel efficient, smoother and faster. Then why is 3.0 L still better than the 2.2?
BTW I dont own a Safari.

it lasts long, really long.
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Old 11th October 2007, 16:12   #27
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I think this is the first time we are witnessing a battle between two cars(trucks) of the same manufacturer.
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Old 11th October 2007, 16:16   #28
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Well, as you said, anything is possible. If there is a problem, and its design related - usually last minute changes or tactical decisions are to blame for faulty products going out to the market.

Even though we've seen test mules for a long time, I'm sure that TATA has been working on the vehicle all through that time. Any change made down the line could result in an issue of a previously tested and approved part.

It could also just be poor QC from TATA's suppliers who has just recently started mass manufacture for the 2.2. These issues would not have shown up in the test mules as parts were not mass manufactured then.
Now .. Call it a hindsight, but somewhere i mentioned why tata were late delivering the vehicles to their new 2.2. Are they taking cover of RTO problems etc etc...to iron out the initial problems (+blown head gaskets ...)

AFAIK, nobody has seen inside out of the test mules leave alone drive them (only a lucky few like SUV) so its real hard to speculate.

All i wish is that they come out with a good product & mark their handsome century with 2.2
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Old 11th October 2007, 16:37   #29
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Now .. Call it a hindsight, but somewhere i mentioned why tata were late delivering the vehicles to their new 2.2. Are they taking cover of RTO problems etc etc...to iron out the initial problems (+blown head gaskets ...)

AFAIK, nobody has seen inside out of the test mules leave alone drive them (only a lucky few like SUV) so its real hard to speculate.

All i wish is that they come out with a good product & mark their handsome century with 2.2
Just for the record - The 2.2's were tested with near zero oil conditions, fast clutch wear condition's ( the first time i drove it was when it had come for a clutch replacement) .. I dont remember the exact ODO reading @ that point ... it was something line 80 - 90k+ ...

As somebody else pointed out here .. it could be a manufacturer related issue nd not necessarily TATA's fault !!.

The NVH Levels on the Test Mules were lower than the present 2.2 and also the engine harshness was non existent @ that point probably cos the KM's Logged ....

Also bear in mind that people (TATA Service) are new to a totally new engine (not developed based on earlier model) which could also be the reason .... For instance I have seen these guy's revving the earlier diesels to the red line for a pro-longed period often in no load condition's (Parked vehicle) and i have even given a mouthful to the guy's who have tried this trick on My Truck. Apparently they do this to remove deposits in the exhaust / catalytic convertor !!!
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Old 11th October 2007, 17:38   #30
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Originally Posted by SUV View Post
As somebody else pointed out here .. it could be a manufacturer related issue nd not necessarily TATA's fault !!.

Also bear in mind that people (TATA Service) are new to a totally new engine (not developed based on earlier model) which could also be the reason ....
Thanks SUV...This might be the reason and explains few unanswered questions I had
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