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Old 30th October 2007, 14:52   #361
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i was referring to a situation where i had to climp up the hill almost 1/2 km and in 1st gear and there were people all around(thanks to some Local festival in mussoorie) and despite continuous honking and using Hand brake,it was hell lot of trouble moving the beast.

then one Tavera which was ahead of me went kaput and it was where my clutch plates started going bad

and the TASS guys told me that its the problem with 4x2 safaris and slave cylinder fails to disengage after such circumstances.

otherwise,except this extreme piece,hill driving was fun,3.0L is very torquey
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Old 30th October 2007, 14:55   #362
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In that case even 4x4H will not help. You would need a lower ratio than first gear so that you can simply keep moving forward without pressing the clutch at all.
So you need 4x4L to do so.
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Old 30th October 2007, 14:55   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Have driven the 3.0 up very steep ramps and lack of torque is the last thing.
The issue is not about the torque, it has enough of that. The issue was about the clutch. Lemme try & explain - say you've stopped a sedan at the beginnning of a steep slope (for whatever reason, who knows). So, you've engaged the parking brake. Now you need to proceed. So, its a simultaneous exercise - disengage parking brake & release clutch & the car moves forward up the slope.

Now picture the same scenario in your Safari. You've got to do it real slick & quick - because of the weight, obviously the tendency to roll back would be more & if you try controlling that with the clutch, chances are that you may burn it a bit. Note that once the truck starts lumbering up the slope, there is no shortage of torque.

I thought that is what Simply_Sunny001 was pointing out

EDIT: Just saw both your posts -

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
In that case even 4x4H will not help. You would need a lower ratio than first gear so that you can simply keep moving forward without pressing the clutch at all.
So you need 4x4L to do so.
Well, he's talking about 4x4, he hasn't mentioned H or L

Last edited by suman : 30th October 2007 at 14:58.
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Old 30th October 2007, 15:18   #364
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Exactly. What sunny wants is a solution to half clutching, since half clutching will kill the clutch.
So you need a lower gear, not 4x4.

Even the 2.2 4x4 will have the same problem as 3.0, as the low end torque of the 2.2 is worse than 3.0.

Maybe 2.2 has a stronger clutch(to take the extra power and torque) and therefore can survive more abuse.
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Old 30th October 2007, 15:29   #365
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Note that once the truck starts lumbering up the slope, there is no shortage of torque.

Absolutely right Suman
cos i had to start moving on slope say 5 mts and then stop and then start cos of huge crowd on road.


Well, he's talking about 4x4, he hasn't mentioned H or L
i was just saying that 4x4 Safari is more useful than 4x2 cos with 4x4 u have solution to more situations.
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Old 30th October 2007, 16:30   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Exactly. What sunny wants is a solution to half clutching, since half clutching will kill the clutch.
So you need a lower gear, not 4x4.

Even the 2.2 4x4 will have the same problem as 3.0, as the low end torque of the 2.2 is worse than 3.0.

Maybe 2.2 has a stronger clutch(to take the extra power and torque) and therefore can survive more abuse.
No tsk, both the 3.0 and the 2.2 have identical clutch assemblies.
240 mm dia made by Luk India, Hosur Road, Bangalore.
A grossly insufficient size for these vehicles.
The earlier TCIC had a 228mm dia clutch.
All these vehicles and the 407 (chhar so saath ) have the same drive shafts.So theoretically with a redesigned fly wheel one can think of a larger clutch of 280mm plus.That should prevent early clutch burnouts especially while off roading.
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Old 30th October 2007, 16:31   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Exactly. What sunny wants is a solution to half clutching, since half clutching will kill the clutch.
So you need a lower gear, not 4x4.
Tanvir, if I'm not mistaken, when you are in 4L on a steep incline, you will be exerting less pressure on the clutch at the time of release than you would if you are in 4x2 mode (because all 4 wheels are in drive mode & the low ratio gives the torque required as pointed out by E_T) - you will not have to "half clutch"

Last edited by suman : 30th October 2007 at 16:33.
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Old 30th October 2007, 22:32   #368
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Guys, even one of my friend mentioned the same problem, in slope/hill driving it is very difficult to drive, he needs to accelerate much. He is having an EX 4X2 3.0. When he booked for a VX 4X4 3.0, i asked him to wait for the 2.2l, but even after test driving the 2.2 version, he is not happy with the performance in the slope.

OT: He told me he can do the same slope effortlessly in scorpio which he owned before safari.
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Old 30th October 2007, 22:33   #369
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This may qualify as a silly question.. newbie, so please bear with me guys :-)

Reading all the high and low discussion for 4x4, I am a little confused.. may be I haven't driven/experienced too many vehicles yet, but one thing I am sure, I just love my bolero, for the simple fact that one engages first or second (and even in third she'd make an attempt I'm sure) and release the clutch and the vehicle would start moving forward with no gas input.. I have not encountered in last 3 years almost an incline steep enough that could put an end to this behavior..

Haven't tested the same on the Safari that I am putting my sights on, took a test drive of the 3L sometime back for someone else, yet to experience the new one, maybe tomorrow, if the Tata guy decides to come over finally as promised..

I was of the opinion (may be short-sighted) that any torquey diesel vehicle would display the same behavior as described above, may be I am mistaken, but in that case it'd really really take some serious effort to take the huge weight places upstairs.. what I have learnt all the while is that when situations show the ugly head, let the vehicle take care of it's own, no extra gas at all, or one might ruin the scene by having the wheels spin and everyone knows the result :-)

Thanks for the input on the 3L Ranger Sir, planning now to take TD of both 3 and 2.2 fresh, will update my findings here. One thing is sure, I'd definitely like the vague steering feel of the 3L to go, felt scary during my last TD, I was scared to take the vehicle to any speed beyond 50 about within city limits, have to admit honestly.

Cheers!
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Old 30th October 2007, 23:10   #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorkats View Post
No tsk, both the 3.0 and the 2.2 have identical clutch assemblies.
240 mm dia made by Luk India, Hosur Road, Bangalore.
A grossly insufficient size for these vehicles.
The earlier TCIC had a 228mm dia clutch.
All these vehicles and the 407 (chhar so saath ) have the same drive shafts.So theoretically with a redesigned fly wheel one can think of a larger clutch of 280mm plus.That should prevent early clutch burnouts especially while off roading.
DoctorKats, In that case can we retrofit a bigger dia clutch ? If so, where ?
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Old 31st October 2007, 03:50   #371
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Originally Posted by power ranger View Post
DoctorKats, In that case can we retrofit a bigger dia clutch ? If so, where ?
I'm trying to work on that and am in touch with people.Will keep you posted.
But I have been warned that I shouldn't dream of it till the warranty gets over.
But after a gruesome jungle slush drive and after a severely scorched clutch plate (haven't forgotten the stench of it burning yet) a month back I doubt if I can wait that long....
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Old 31st October 2007, 11:11   #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v1kram View Post
OT: He told me he can do the same slope effortlessly in scorpio which he owned before safari.
That might well be true, but only to a limited extent. There really is no 'substitute' for Low Ratio. A 4WD-L model will take you up gradients where it's 2WD cousin will not DARE!
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Old 31st October 2007, 18:35   #373
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Yes,

Got mine registered last week! It took a week though.

t

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbobo View Post
Is the 2.2 being registered now? The dealr in Delhi says it'll take another week. We'll give you the truck but with a temp. no valid for a week. But as far as I know acc to Delhi laws thats illegal and its the dealers responsibilty to register and then deliver. Anybody knows more about this?
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Old 31st October 2007, 18:58   #374
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I finally took a long drive on the 2.2 VX 4X2 yesterday.
Noise:
Much quieter than the 3.0 while idling.
I start, reverse and I'm on my way. Inside town the difference seems negligible in 1st and 2nd though the car NVH levels are superior. I step on the gas and all those horses are very evident.
However when accelerating hard, a very rorty noise is evident. I could not make out if it was induction noise or cam shaft noise. The noise was quite intrusive. This noise, however, was heard only when the acceleration was sudden.
Power
A very definite improvement. The delivery is very linear and hence does not give you a rush like the 3.0.
Ride
A definite improvement over the 3.0 as the weight of the engine has changed the front dynamics.
Brakes
Better than the 3.0 with the larger discs, callipers and drums.
Would I buy it over the 3.0
Yes, most definitely.

However I am very sure that this engine will not last as long as the 3.0 DICOR. The reason I say that is because the 3.0 is a much more relaxed cruiser with the revs really low at highs speeds, whereas the 2.2 is a lot more frenetic.

The 3.0 has all its power only after 1500 rpm, so my advice to any off-roader is to ensure that the revs are above 1.5 k rpm before you even lift off the clutch. Keeping the revs low and starting would lead to very smelly clutch burn outs.
I used to make the same mistake while starting because i assumed that the 30 Kgm torque would pull me out of anything. Keep the revs at about 2K rpm and watch that 3.0 pull out of any sticky situation!!!!

Last edited by jyobeb : 31st October 2007 at 19:00.
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Old 31st October 2007, 20:49   #375
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[quote=jyobeb;612717]Noise:
Much quieter than the 3.0 while idling.
However when accelerating hard, a very rorty noise is evident. I could not make out if it was induction noise or cam shaft noise. The noise was quite intrusive. This noise, however, was heard only when the acceleration was sudden.
Would I buy it over the 3.0
Yes, most definitely.

However I am very sure that this engine will not last as long as the 3.0 DICOR. The reason I say that is because the 3.0 is a much more relaxed cruiser with the revs really low at highs speeds, whereas the 2.2 is a lot more frenetic.
[quote]
You are just repeating what I said in post 351 on the previous page !!
Still if you want to go for 2.2, all the very best !!
As I stated earlier, Kudos to Tatas for spoiling a wonderful engine ( 3.0)

Last edited by GTO : 1st November 2007 at 14:33. Reason: Removing FONT tags
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