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Old 14th October 2007, 22:59   #91
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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
How about taking your own test drive, and see if its comfortable for you, how you feel. AFAIK, you do long distances on Delhi-Agra na, i think 2.2 would be just perfect for you (and NH2 )
Oh yeah !! I do Delhi - Agra every 10 days or so, so yes I do really need a Big Car, Also one of the main reasons for me buying a big SUV is I have a Golden Retriever and he does not fit in my Accent

I have been waiting for Agra to receive a Safari But each time I call them they say it is on its way. I am getting frustrated at Tata now. I mean Agra gets most of the cars before they are launched in major cities but Tata seems to be way behind others here.
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Old 14th October 2007, 23:39   #92
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hi vkochar . ideal time before buying any newly launched vehicle is around 3-5 months, in that period most of the vehicles problems are sorted out by the company. don't be in a hurry and later regret u r decision.
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Old 15th October 2007, 00:29   #93
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Looks like Tata is having major QC problems with the new 2.2 Safari (or with the QC of their parts suppliers and then integrating them). Also, there seems to have been too much hype, AKA expectations!

Luckily it is a few months before I R2I and I hope that they will solve the problems. Or else? What are the other choices (given Nattu the GS) - Scorpio? Innova? Sumo? I dunno I think Honda CRV is overpriced and is not really a true SUV. The Volvo XC would be nice too, but, way expensive and the service could be a huge problem for me. I am not too thrilled with the Chevy Tavera or Ford whatever. The Nissan SUV may be good, pricey though. Has anyone TD one of these?

Cheers

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Old 15th October 2007, 02:48   #94
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Originally Posted by reachmash View Post
Hello aadix,

That is the time, I went and spoke to my contact who was not in a position to push me for 2.2 and at the same time, my bro friend contacted the the birdy who is the top brass of the dealer :-), looking at my confusion, he setup a meeting in couple of hours through my bro's friend (who happens to have a close relations ship at family level).

.............Pardon?
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Old 15th October 2007, 07:54   #95
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So really double minded. Help me out !!!
One very viable option is to go for the Scorpio, possibly 4WD if you fancy. (but there's a waiting period for the 4WD and hardly any colour choices).
Your pooch will also love it.
P.S. I know it's very difficult to convert people from Tata to M&M and vice versa!
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Old 15th October 2007, 10:09   #96
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OK, let me add one more twist to the tale

I went to workshop on saturday to get some suspension settings altered on my truck, since it was pulling a bit to the left.

there, while work was going on, I was invited by the Sr. works manager, for a cup of tea (Safari owners are a "priviliged" lot in the world of Tata Motors )

Over tea, i asked him about the 2.2 and also commented on the fact that there were 3 2.2s (all in the new green shade) standing in the workshop with Demo stickers, with work going on in the cars-one car was being pushed by some mechanics as opposed to being driven!- whereas these cars should be out on the road giving test drives to people.

he told me that apart form the blown gasket on 1 VX, there has been some problem with te power steering on the 2 EX 4x4s that are the test drive cars. Per him, the 4x2 vehicles have no issue.

Also, it seems that Tata Motors has directed them to test drive each customer car for at least 50 kms before delivering the car to them, once deliveries commence.....

Last edited by Samurai : 15th October 2007 at 10:40. Reason: typo
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Old 15th October 2007, 10:39   #97
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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
Also, it seems that Tata Motors has directed them to test drive each customer car for at least 50 kms before delivering the car to them, once deliveries commence.....
That says a lot about the confidence they have in their products. Being in product development, I can relate to it. There have been times when I had to give such notifications to the customers. That usually happens when we are blind as a bat and clueless about what is causing the serious failure. Such notifications are given when the confidence in our product is really low. At least in software we can give updates and patches once the problems are found and fixed. In case of cars, the equivalent would be major recalls and parts replacements. If the design change or part replacement turns out to be expensive, they may resort to crude workarounds.

Anyway, my own reliable source asked me to hold until Jan08 to allow Tata to sort out the initial niggles. In case of Tata, that should be made a rule of thumb.
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Old 15th October 2007, 10:49   #98
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I too visited dealer on Saturday for the second test drive as the first time I drove on 5th October, (the reason given for very hard clutch though far better than the earlier version was that the vehicle was fresh from factory) particularly to see if anything has improved due to usage.
Some findings are given below:
1. So far approx. 50 customers have taken it for TD( Navi Mumbai). They have only one demo vehicle ( Ex 4*2) and it was the same one I drove on 5th Oct. It had done 27 kms that day and on Saturday it was 553 kms.
2. I could feel the clutch pedal in awkward position and found that it was not coming up as perhaps the spring or something had gone bad. The executive told me that they will get it repaired and asked me if I would still like to take TD. I took it anyway.
3. Opened the bonnet - the sound was quite pleasing despite open hood though the cover plate on the engine was looking very cheap in real. It looks very cool to me in pics though. They have put light in engine compartment which is a nice touch. There was some typical jarring sound - sort of vibration of metals which was little unfamiliar as I didnt feel it in the earlier Dicor(3 litre).
4. I took the test drive again and took it uphill ( Parsik hill) and it was my fourth trip that day on the Parsik hill. this hill has got pretty decent slope and twists and I wanted to test the steering and comfort level in twists as well as low speed pull ( torque) in gears.
5. Accent CRDi- climbs easily and happily in any gear and so does verna crdi and so did optra Magnum( TCDi) as expected which I had taken there before Safari.
6. In Verna it was breeze, Optra was rock solid but steering was slightly harder( done approx.115?? kms) - dont remember exactly but being test drive car- executive gave some evasive replies. Thrid gear in all the three cars felt like rocket going uphill!
7. Best part -Safari did it too !! pretty comfortably and the steering that I wanted to check - was absolute delight at U turn as well as hairpin bends while uphill or downhill and better than previous version ( may be halo effect ). I deliberately pushed it in 4th at low speed - pretty low upto 35 kmph no probs but I had to shift to 3rd to prevent stalling engine ( uphill) around 30kmph mark. But full marks to Safari now after this TD as its really much improved for low speed drive - definitely.
QC- initial niggles- no comments as plenty has been written and I agree with my experience.
So far the dealer has received 5 bookings- just 1 car - in black - EX 4*2 is available and ready for delivery- expected - registration today and it was outright purchase.
They have received the revised rates of interest and final pricing etc. and I am expecting final quote today ( as promised by them).
Accesories- I would like to mention that in case, anyone want reverse camera installed on EX or lower variant- its available for 25K with warranty. The display is on the rear view mirror as in VX model, but in this bundle( the after market fitment reverse guide camera ) , the display area is way bigger and you could watch the DVD too there!! cool! However, I have chosen reverse sensors with display and I ll put two sensors on front bumpers too . It is costing Rs. 6500/- ( ones without sensors for front bumpers cost Rs. 4000/-).
This is as far as I wanted to share on the forum.

I need help and inputs for choosing between EX4*4 and VX4*4 models ( cost difference close to 2 lakhs). What we get extra in this 2 lakhs is pretty cool- leathers, DVD player with displays, ABS, EBD, Reverse guide camera and 2 front Airbags and wood grain finish( interiors) out of which I was seriously interested only in ABS & EBD & Airbags and as much I love to have these three as much I hate leather and DVD player with display. No issues- no luv or hate for reverse guide camera. (4*4 in EX comes fitted with alloys). I find EX 4*4 best VFM - members views are welcome.
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Old 15th October 2007, 11:17   #99
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Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Anyway, my own reliable source asked me to hold until Jan08 to allow Tata to sort out the initial niggles. In case of Tata, that should be made a rule of thumb.
That has always been a good rule of the thumb with TATA. For any new products it is wise to wait 5-6 months so that the initial issues are sorted out & you get a relatively niggle free vehicle. Getting the product bang-on reliably at the launch itself is not one of TATA's strengths yet.
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Old 15th October 2007, 11:31   #100
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It can be their lack of confidence or the confidence that the problem will crop up in the initial few KM runs.(pointing to gasket QC issues)

Recalling a new product for head gasket replacement is a huge cost & Labour + you can say goodbye to the sales for few months atleast as I had explained the mechanical parts involved in this (How to test for a failed Engine Head Gasket)thread.

And you can never be sure about the job the dealers will do on the new engine.

Best bet under these circumstances, buy only mid-Oct and later built Safari's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
Also, it seems that Tata Motors has directed them to test drive each customer car for at least 50 kms before delivering the car to them, once deliveries commence.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
That says a lot about the confidence they have in their products. Being in product development, I can relate to it. There have been times when I had to give such notifications to the customers. That usually happens when we are blind as a bat and clueless about what is causing the serious failure.
Please post detailed costing (breakups) and interest rates etc once you get them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shatrughna View Post
They have received the revised rates of interest and final pricing etc. and I am expecting final quote today ( as promised by them).

I need help and inputs for choosing between EX4*4 and VX4*4 models ( cost difference close to 2 lakhs). What we get extra in this 2 lakhs is pretty cool- leathers, DVD player with displays, ABS, EBD, Reverse guide camera and 2 front Airbags and wood grain finish( interiors) out of which I was seriously interested only in ABS & EBD & Airbags and as much I love to have these three as much I hate leather and DVD player with display. No issues- no luv or hate for reverse guide camera. (4*4 in EX comes fitted with alloys). I find EX 4*4 best VFM - members views are welcome.

Last edited by dadu : 15th October 2007 at 11:37.
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Old 15th October 2007, 11:38   #101
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From the reports here, the VX seems to have the lion's share of blown gaskets. Wonder why that is ?
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Old 15th October 2007, 11:40   #102
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this is really ironic!

when I bought my 3.0, I got PMs from some BHPians, doubting my levels of sanity and mental equilibrium (all in humour though!) since the 2.2 was launched the same day.

However, i believe in putting my money where my mouth is and went ahead based on the info I had on the 2.2, which i shared on this forum. i took extensive drives of the 3.0 before deciding. hell, there was a time when I did not like the 3.0 (initial lot) but that product has been really improved over the last coupleof years by TM.

Even on this forum, people were extolling the virtues of the 2.2, with just one test drive or based on second hand info..

well, it seems now that the issues and concerns were real after all and not a figment of my imagination(and that of some other BHPians).

Dont get me wrong, I think the 2.2 is potentially a brilliant engine, just that it will take about 9-12 motnhs for this engine to settle down. Once it does, the Safari should be a tough act to beat.

enuf said......Peace!

Last edited by himanshugoswami : 15th October 2007 at 11:42.
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Old 15th October 2007, 12:07   #103
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Default 2.2L Almost booked!

Sunday was very sad for my dream of owning the beast this Diwali. All finances, funds etc had been arranged got my cheque book out and was about to leave when for the dealers and the mobile rang and the news came in. Tata is surely having issues with certain critical parts of the 2.2L I dont think this is an engine problem however as told to me some critical parts have been failing. I cant reveal the exact conversation nor the source however I have been strongly advised to put off my buy for the next 4 to 5 months Believe me after waiting almost a year for this I am literally banging my head on the wall. These are QC issues on vendor parts. Funny they did''nt get them sorted while the beast was been exported may be the QC done on those parts was stringent and better or the vendors also knew that the product now was going to be sold in India and they got out all their defective parts returned to them earlier, whatever but this is not fair. TATA this is where your foreign counter parts beat you. QUALITY Consistency.

Here goes another 4 months of waiting, speculating and the whole New Indian car drama. Its not like they are making a reality show out of this where the judges cry, walk out, fight this is much more painful on many levels for the consumer. Why TATA why?
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Old 15th October 2007, 12:16   #104
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Here goes another 4 months of waiting, speculating and the whole New Indian car drama. Its not like they are making a reality show out of this where the judges cry, walk out, fight this is much more painful on many levels for the consumer. Why TATA why?

I am going about with a lot of apprehension. I went for the LX 2.2 after becoming thoroughly confused about whether to go for 3.0 or 2.2.

As things stand now I am getting delivery of the 2.2 tomorrow [Tuesday] and with these news and views about reliability of critical engine components, this is driving me crazy. There is now no going back.

Let see what Fate has for me - if I am getting the safari tomorrow, i am off for a 2000 km journey from kolkata to north bengal forests and back - in fact I booked this safari just for this and now if it ditches me in those forests ...

These are tough and confused times.
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Old 15th October 2007, 12:19   #105
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Originally Posted by JUDA View Post
Funny they did''nt get them sorted while the beast was been exported.
My gut feel is component cost cutting on the Indian version coupled with an unprepared QC has resulted in this quagmire.
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