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Old 31st March 2008, 10:25   #286
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Originally Posted by GTO - Touring View Post
Due to weight transfer (while braking), the front brakes will always be doing more work. That is why you will see cars with disc brakes at the front versus drums at the rear, or with bigger brakes upfront.
I do not know how the TM ensures unequal brake bias at the factory stage ..BUT if you go to TASS and change all the brake pads (the rear brake shoes and the front brake pads) the adjustment that TASS does is completly manual.
A mechanic sits in the car and presses the brake pedal while another mechanic checks out (below the car) whether the wheels get locked equally and at the same time.

The reason for putting in bigger brake / discs brakes in the front could be because the front brakes take up more braking load as you rightly said. When the front brakes are applied the momentum of the car forward tends to lift the car using the front wheels as a fulcrum (you see this effect in the Pulsar Advertisements..). This strains the brakes more and if you have smaller brakes in the front, the shoes/brakes will either give way or the braking will not be efficient .

I understand that the front brakes get applied 1st and the rear brakes subsequently.
However...
if the front brake pads have worn unequally or have worn out more, the brake pads will not grip the calipers efficiently and during this period of inefficient braking at the front, the front wheels are still giving momentum to the car while the rear have already locked. This can also cause the rear wheels to lock up.

In TMs vehicles they have what they call a pressure sensing relieve Valve.
What I understand is that this valve senses the load on indivisual wheels and adjusts pressure to the brakes accordingly.

Modern braking system in cars are quite complex designs I am ill equipped to debate on the same.

Last edited by kingshukt : 31st March 2008 at 10:29.
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Old 15th July 2008, 20:25   #287
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Guys!
Its been a long time since I updated this thread.

My BEAR has officially run 12500 KMS and counting....

I will try to update my experiences observations


The BEAR did a lot of driving since the last update.
2 trips to Amritsar(Pb)
2 trips to Chandigarh
3 trips to Neemrana(Raj)
1 trip to Jim Corbett


Fuel Efficiency Update


For its entire run from the first day it has given me a FE of 12.17 to a liter.
Cost per KM works out to be Rs.2.84 per KM.

Total No of KM’s 12,234.
Fuel consumed 1005 liters.
Fuel Bill 34,715.00


Highway runs:

Between 14 to 15 to the liter.

On 2 occasions, with extreme control and patience (i.e. no hard acceleration, keeping the RPM and speed below 2.0-2.2K/ 75-80KM/H), I have even managed to squeeze 18 KM/liter. This is with the air con on at all times.


City Driving:

In the city, no matter how hard I try, the max FE I have managed to achieve is less than 11 Km/liter. Not that I am complaining but earlier I managed about 12-12.25.
However I think that this too is OK


Fuel changed from Premium to Normal Diesel
Further, after reading on the forum (on various threads) I have migrated from Premium Diesel to Normal Diesel from the last 1200 kms.
I have not noticed any major changes (towards the better or worse) in terms of vibrations, FE pickup etc.
Will update if I notice anything major.


Vehicle Update:
I am much relived and happy to say this ‘No major issues, Whatsoever’



Next update in a couple of days.I took the BEAR to the workshop.....



Mods please change the title of the thread "
The BEAR 'Tata Safari 2.2' updated 12500KM"

Last edited by harjeev : 15th July 2008 at 20:30.
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Old 15th July 2008, 21:09   #288
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Thats good mileage. 18kmpl is awesome, I used to get 13's when I kept it at 80kmph.
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Old 16th July 2008, 09:41   #289
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Nothing to worry on both aspects.

These are the TATA Official FE Figures

City : 10.64 kmpl

Highways : 14.71 kmpl

Mixed :12.99 kmpl

So the Safari is performing as per expectations

Quote:
Originally Posted by harjeev View Post
Guys!

Fuel Efficiency Update


For its entire run from the first day it has given me a FE of 12.17 to a liter.
Cost per KM works out to be Rs.2.84 per KM.

Total No of KMís 12,234.
Fuel consumed 1005 liters.
Fuel Bill 34,715.00


Highway runs:

Between 14 to 15 to the liter.

On 2 occasions, with extreme control and patience (i.e. no hard acceleration, keeping the RPM and speed below 2.0-2.2K/ 75-80KM/H), I have even managed to squeeze 18 KM/liter. This is with the air con on at all times.


City Driving:

In the city, no matter how hard I try, the max FE I have managed to achieve is less than 11 Km/liter. Not that I am complaining but earlier I managed about 12-12.25.
However I think that this too is OK


Fuel changed from Premium to Normal Diesel
Further, after reading on the forum (on various threads) I have migrated from Premium Diesel to Normal Diesel from the last 1200 kms.
I have not noticed any major changes (towards the better or worse) in terms of vibrations, FE pickup etc.
Will update if I notice anything major.
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Old 16th July 2008, 11:00   #290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Nothing to worry on both aspects.

These are the TATA Official FE Figures

City : 10.64 kmpl

Highways : 14.71 kmpl

Mixed :12.99 kmpl

So the Safari is performing as per expectations

This is definitely a consolation.

I was hoping that there shouldn't be something wrong with my BEAR. The highway FE I was happy with, but was just a little bit worried about the city FE.

Now I think that anything above between 10-11 should be acceptable.
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Old 19th July 2008, 12:54   #291
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Sorry for hijacking the thread but since all the 2.2 guru's are here needed some advice.

Am contemplating selling my beast. Am moving to the UK and this breaks my heart but doesnt make sense it just standing here for more than a year.

Any idea what kind of money can i get for it? Its a November '07 model 4X2 EX done about 11K. Has art leather seats, and about 40K in JBL/Sony audio equipment. Is in perfect condition - and only has a scrape on the front right side bumper. I recently had teflon and anti rust treatment done on it.

Any help on this would be appreciated.
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Old 19th July 2008, 17:50   #292
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Originally Posted by djbobo View Post
Sorry for hijacking the thread but since all the 2.2 guru's are here needed some advice.

Am contemplating selling my beast. Am moving to the UK and this breaks my heart but doesnt make sense it just standing here for more than a year.

Any idea what kind of money can i get for it? Its a November '07 model 4X2 EX done about 11K. Has art leather seats, and about 40K in JBL/Sony audio equipment. Is in perfect condition - and only has a scrape on the front right side bumper. I recently had teflon and anti rust treatment done on it.

Any help on this would be appreciated.
Man!!

That's really sad to see you sell pff the beast. I mean you were one of the first 5 people who bought the beast (2.2) on the T-BHP.

I have no idea on the rates but when I was contemplating selling my old accent I used to visit New Cars, Used Cars, Buy Cars, Sell Cars, New Car Prices, Used Car Prices - CarWale.com India. Their second hand car estimate is quite accurate.
I entered your beasts particulars and the price is between 5.75 to 6.25.. You can always expect more considering the accessories that you have installed.
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Old 7th August 2008, 13:48   #293
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Date at the workshop

I received a call from Pawa Motors on 9 July (Friday) for replacing the Damper and Pulley. So I took the BEAR to the workshop for this change. As it had been a long time since the BEAR had paid a visit to the service center,


I had compiled a list of issues.

1.Steering Wheel not straight
2.While hard breaking from speeds of 90 and above, I experienced vibrations from the front breaks like drr- drr- drr- drr- drr. This could be felt in the entire car. Also couple of times the on hard breaking the rear wheels used to lockup. So told the service advisor (SA) to check the breaks for adjustment etc.
3.Noise /Rattle in the front driver seat.
4.Diesel lid opens up automatically, at high speeds
5.Damper/ Pulley change
6.Felt that the clutch is a little loose.
7.Hand Break loose
8.Wiperís Washer to be adjusted for proper flow of water
9.Oil top-up (I however told him to change the complete engine oil, but the SA said that they would lose Rs.400 if they did the service before 15K KMS) and currently the ODO showed 12800 KMS) So Iíve decided to wait it out.
10.Wheel Alignment/ Tyre Rotation and balancing


I reached the workshop at 10:15 AM in the morning along with my driver. They told me that the entire work will be completed around 6.00PM. So I headed back to office after explaining what needed to be done, my driver stayed back.


I came back to the workshop at 6.00PM and as luck would have it, the vehicle was not ready. I mean that most of the other things were resolved, but they had not washed the BEAR. So I assumed that it would take around another 30-45 minutes, so had to wait.

I got the delivery at 7.20PM. By this time majority of the workers had left for the day.

The following are my observations after the service.

1.They could not pull out the steering wheel, so it could not be resolved
2.They cleaned, checked the front and rear brakes. (My driver confirmed this). The vehicle is more responsive now under normal breaking. However I have not managed to check this under high speeds.
3.Still there, but as most of the workers had left I could not do anything. Will get it done when I will get the oil change
4.They said that they have tightened the lid, have to check it though
5.Done
6.The clutch is better now
7.Hand brake tightened
8.Wiperís washer adjusted for proper water jet throw
9.Oil topped up, with the correct lubricant CH4 Ď15W40í. 1 liter of oil for Rs.187.50
10.Rotation Done.
They donít have a facility of alignment or even a balancing machine!!
So I will get it done from outside

Apart from this the Air Filter was changed (Rs.601.78)
Engine Waxing-WURTH (Car Fitment) Rs.360.00 (I dint tell them to do this, but he said that its benifical for the engine so I paid)
VAT 112.72 & Service Tax 44.49
Total Bill Amount : 1306.49


The service advisor told me that I could come for the oil change after the BEAR has run to around 15K KMs. At that time, I think, that they would just change the engine oil, Oil filter, maybe the clean the catalytic converter. This bill should not run more than 1500.



Condensation inside the left headlamp
I donít know whether anyone else is facing this same issue, but during the last couple of days there is a lot of condensation inside the left headlamp.



The BEAR meet with a small accident
A couple of weeks back the BEAR met with a slight accident. And there was a big bump in the (front left side) bumper.

So naturally I took it to the Body Shop of Pawa Motors. and they gave me an estimate of 4000. They said that they would paint the bumper and there was no need of changing the bumper, but they would heat it and then would have to paint it. Plus they said that they would keep the beast for a 3 days.
I dint want to spend this kind of money and there was no point for claiming insurance for this petty an amount. My No Claim Bonus will be 20% this renewal. So I talked to my guy at the Service Center. He gave me a name and address of an accessory shop in Wazirpur Industrial Area. I was assured that this accessories guy would do a good job and take about 300-500 bucks for the job.

So next day I, being Sunday, I headed for this shop. The owner too owned a Safari, this gave me some consolation that the guys would know what they would be doing, as he must have experimented with this own car. I assumed this as his car was an LX, but all the side cladings, bumpers, mirrors etc were painted.
So they took my bumper (they knew exactly what nut and bolts to open, how to take it out). Took the bumper to their workshop and started heating. I think that they used either wood or coal. But they were gently heating it, not using flames, but just applying heat. Slowly and gradually it took them about 2 hours and the bumper was much better than it was.
Obviously it cant me as good as new, but I was satisfied.

I would give it a 6.5-7/10 for the entire job.
Total cost for the entire job Rs.500/-


Wheel Alignment & Balancing
I got the alignment and balancing done from a shop in Ashok Vihar itself. This was recemonded by the accessories shop guy and the service advisor.
The alignment was slightly out towards the left and was corrected. Cost 80 bucks.
For the balancing they charged 20 bucks per wheel plus weights. The total cost for worked out to be 80 (alignment) + 80 Balancing & 750 weights.
Is this ok? I think its on the higher side but the guy said that its normal as the tyres are heavy they require more weights.





Mods please change the title of the thread
"
The BEAR 'Tata Safari 2.2' updated 15000 Kms"
Attached Thumbnails
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New Tata Safari 2.2 VTT EX 4X2 EDIT 25000kms service done-07082008355.jpg  

New Tata Safari 2.2 VTT EX 4X2 EDIT 25000kms service done-a07082008352.jpg  

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Old 7th August 2008, 13:58   #294
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Still not the best job done regarding the bumper,but its your choice again to get a new one or stay with it.

Regarding the condensation in headlight,please take it to Workshop when it is there and they will change it under warranty.

Remember that Extended Warranty doesnt cover headlights.so get it changed ASAP.

Is there any chance that the impact on the bumper might have damaged the headlight too or was it there earlier also.
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Old 7th August 2008, 14:42   #295
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Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 View Post
Still not the best job done regarding the bumper,but its your choice again to get a new one or stay with it.

Regarding the condensation in headlight,please take it to Workshop when it is there and they will change it under warranty.

Remember that Extended Warranty doesnt cover headlights.so get it changed ASAP.

Is there any chance that the impact on the bumper might have damaged the headlight too or was it there earlier also.
I know regarding the bumper job. I think that I woudl stay with this for a while and maybe change it sometime in the future.

I dont think that the bumper damaged the headlight, but at the same time the condensation has started coming only after the small mishap. Still as I have to go to the service station in a day or two (to get the oil change) maybe Ill try my luck and see if they change the headlight under warranty.
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Old 7th August 2008, 14:47   #296
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The shock may have been carried to the headlight, or the rubber cap could have come loose.
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Old 7th August 2008, 15:19   #297
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The bumpers are usually polypropylene and have excellent pop-back properties. If you could have used some force from inside on the bent curve part, it might have popped back, I have seen it on other cars with similar damage as yours.

Heating only deforms the plastic, but still a decent job.

Otherwise turbanman had a similar situation but also with a broken foglamp and the whole bumper was changed. Costed him 18k.
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Old 7th August 2008, 15:30   #298
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Headlights are kind of sensitive in a sense that even the small impact might open up the pasting between the glass and plastic part.

you wont even be able to notice with naked eye.

Anyways

If by the time you go to TASS,your headlight dries up completely,then do the following

1. you can try washing the headlight at home to give it some moisture.

2. if the above doesnt work out,take a syringe and give your headlight an injection of water from the backside(the plastic side where a round revolving things is there,open it and do the operation)

i know it sounds funny but it works.

As in most of cases,till we find time to visit TASS the condensation dries up,and TASS people will surely tell you to keep an eye for it and come to them when it happens again,i hope you will agree.
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Old 7th August 2008, 15:33   #299
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With the rains on in Delhi, I expect condensation to stay for a few days atleast if the HL is leaky.
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Old 7th August 2008, 18:30   #300
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Quote:
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The bumpers are usually polypropylene and have excellent pop-back properties. If you could have used some force from inside on the bent curve part, it might have popped back, I have seen it on other cars with similar damage as yours.

Heating only deforms the plastic, but still a decent job.

Otherwise turbanman had a similar situation but also with a broken foglamp and the whole bumper was changed. Costed him 18k.
18K.
Man that's a lot of money. For something like that I would definitely be going in for an insurance claim.

The guy after removing the bumper tried pushing the bumper from inside, like you've said, but he said that the bumper is bent as such an angle that it could badly deform the bumper and that applying heat is a better option. So I decided for the latter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The shock may have been carried to the headlight, or the rubber cap could have come loose.
I think that this could be the reason

Quote:
Originally Posted by simply_sunny001 View Post
Anyways

If by the time you go to TASS,your headlight dries up completely,then do the following

1. you can try washing the headlight at home to give it some moisture.

2. if the above doesnt work out,take a syringe and give your headlight an injection of water from the backside(the plastic side where a round revolving things is there,open it and do the operation)

i know it sounds funny but it works.

As in most of cases,till we find time to visit TASS the condensation dries up,and TASS people will surely tell you to keep an eye for it and come to them when it happens again,i hope you will agree.
I 've really liked your idea,and would try it if the moisture dried up. But these days as its raining so much, and I've booked my beast for oil change for monday. I dont think that the moisture would dry.
If it does, the BEAR would have to be vaccinated.
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