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Old 12th December 2007, 19:00   #31
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Default M Hawk Disappointmen

Well folks the M-Hawk or rather the Scorio 2.2 is here. But unforuntately it did not bring out any rave reviews as the 2.6 CRDE did. This is primarily due to lack of

a) Power - 120 BHP against the max of 140bhp. Seriously M&M needs to kick *** some of its boffins.
b) Some lack of Creature comforts for the 1Lac+ price diff - such as lack of Climate Control / Adaptive Steering wheel Audio controls / Sun roof / Front Center Arm rest console with covered boxes instead of open space ( Very Tacky that one) /
c) Better Alloys - Absolutely agree that even the Plain Wheel covers are better looking.
d) Split opening rear doors - Meaning glass opens separately for easy loading of less heavy parcels.

So that about kills my plans for going for the Scorpio for this avatar. Willl await what M&M plans to do about the increase in power even before thinking of plonking my money there.

Cheerio mates.
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Old 13th December 2007, 16:19   #32
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Default scorpio bio diesel / Hybrid

Hi!

Since someone here was mentioning a hybrid scorp, it may be worthwhile to note that M&M already has working prototypes of a Electric Hybrid and a bio diesel scorpio.

The Hindu : Business : M&M unveils bio-diesel Scorpio

Mahindra Newsletter

http://www.mahindra.com/Admin/tmpupl...heAutoExpo.pdf

Last edited by GTO : 31st December 2007 at 12:21.
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Old 31st December 2007, 12:01   #33
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Folks, has anyone else done a TD? Need a few more opinions...
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Old 4th January 2008, 13:05   #34
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Thumbs up My version of the testdrive

I testdrove Scorpio Mhawk a few days back but could not get time to post a review here,today sitting at home having a look at reviews of other cars i feel no one has done justice to this vehicle by posting a proper review(except for ones where its acceleration is compared to magnum)so here is my version.

Looks,interiors and Equipment-
No major changes have been made except the scoop is now functional,the stickers(which i dont like) and the MHawk badging on fenders.Alloy wheels which were previously dealer option are now available on VLX(thats what the new top end model is badged as).

The interiors are color coded like before pearl white gets beige,black gets black.The design of the dashboard is unchanged.The steering wheel now gets controls for audio and cruise control.

The additional equipment that the VLX gets is Cruise control,tire pressure montoring system,automatic lights and automatic viper but still lacks electric mirrors that even the base Safari LX has.ABS is standard now,no option for airbags though.

Captain seats are optional now but the gap between the captain seats is too much with handrest down larger sized people will find the seats too small for them unlike the Innova.All other seats are same as before.


Engine and performance-
Fire the engine and you will hear a very crisp typical diesel clatter very different from the previous CRDe engine,NVH is controlled very well the engine feels refined than the Safari's 2.2 unit.

Slot the first gear the car accelerates very similarly like CRDe powered Scorpio,take the engine to the red line in each gear drive it like you would in a drag you wont find much difference but drive the car on part throttle and upshift early you will find the new MHawk engine very responsive,the car starts moving directly in second gear without slipping clutch.

I did not like the changes made to the gearbox,the gearshift now loses the click shift from CRDe,it now feels hard to slot to next gear and you dont get the feel that you have already slotted it into the next slot(it feels very similar to Safari gearbox)


Ride,handling and manouverablity-
The newer Scorpio with refinements to front suspension and the lighter engine rides better now but the rear pitches more than the front.

I felt it now handles better the steering now feels more connected now but i didnot check the car for roll.We took the car to a empty road near Gurgaon faridabad road to check the ride and braking,the new scorpio's brakes inspire lot lot more confidence now with ABS cutting in,though the ABS is just 3channel but its very effective.

This SUV is a breeze to drive in traffic,i found it easier to drive in traffic compared to my daily drive elantra and its lot easier in traffic compared to safari.


How does it compare to Safari?
Performance is better than Safari with lesser gear changes.

Comfort is nowhere close to Safari.

Ease of driving is better than Safari.

Safari is a better value for money.



At 9.63lakhs ex-showroom gurgaon i feel its expensive for what they offer.
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Old 4th January 2008, 13:51   #35
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My Comments below, I think the Safari is a clear winner and as you stated there are some comments that need some clarification.

Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
I testdrove Scorpio Mhawk a few days back but could not get time to post a review here,today sitting at home having a look at reviews of other cars i feel no one has done justice to this vehicle by posting a proper review(except for ones where its acceleration is compared to magnum)so here is my version.

Looks,interiors and Equipment-
No major changes have been made except the scoop is now functional,the stickers(which i dont like) and the MHawk badging on fenders.Alloy wheels which were previously dealer option are now available on VLX(thats what the new top end model is badged as).

The interiors are color coded like before pearl white gets beige,black gets black.The design of the dashboard is unchanged.The steering wheel now gets controls for audio and cruise control.

The additional equipment that the VLX gets is Cruise control,tire pressure montoring system,automatic lights and automatic viper but still lacks electric mirrors that even the base Safari LX has.ABS is standard now,no option for airbags though.

Captain seats are optional now but the gap between the captain seats is too much with handrest down larger sized people will find the seats too small for them unlike the Innova.All other seats are same as before.


Engine and performance-
Fire the engine and you will hear a very crisp typical diesel clatter very different from the previous CRDe engine,NVH is controlled very well the engine feels refined than the Safari's 2.2 unit.

Slot the first gear the car accelerates very similarly like CRDe powered Scorpio,take the engine to the red line in each gear drive it like you would in a drag you wont find much difference but drive the car on part throttle and upshift early you will find the new MHawk engine very responsive,the car starts moving directly in second gear without slipping clutch.

I did not like the changes made to the gearbox,the gearshift now loses the click shift from CRDe,it now feels hard to slot to next gear and you dont get the feel that you have already slotted it into the next slot(it feels very similar to Safari gearbox)


Ride,handling and manouverablity-
The newer Scorpio with refinements to front suspension and the lighter engine rides better now but the rear pitches more than the front.

I felt it now handles better the steering now feels more connected now but i didnot check the car for roll.We took the car to a empty road near Gurgaon faridabad road to check the ride and braking,the new scorpio's brakes inspire lot lot more confidence now with ABS cutting in,though the ABS is just 3channel but its very effective.

This SUV is a breeze to drive in traffic,i found it easier to drive in traffic compared to my daily drive elantra and its lot easier in traffic compared to safari.


How does it compare to Safari?
Performance is better than Safari with lesser gear changes. [I really don't know if I can agree with this, difference of 20BHP comparo and you feel performance better than Safari?? and what exactly are you talking about in reference to gear changes. Changing gears at lower speeds or RPMs?]

Comfort is nowhere close to Safari.

Ease of driving is better than Safari. [Could you please specify here as to what exactly are you evaluating ? Cause with the Safari's height adjustable driver seat I think you can see even a nail on the road so I think this enables better maneuvering in traffic also with the Power mirrors you can change and check view of traffic on left and right to slot the vehicle out of the gaps hence making it easier for Safari to get out of jam's.]

Safari is a better value for money.



At 9.63lakhs ex-showroom gurgaon i feel its expensive for what they offer.
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Old 4th January 2008, 14:26   #36
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JUDA,i think both the vehicles are equally good with their own strengths and weakness,here are answers to your questions,

"I really don't know if I can agree with this, difference of 20BHP comparo and you feel performance better than Safari?? and what exactly are you talking about in reference to gear changes. Changing gears at lower speeds or RPMs?"

Despite the 20 BHP difference Scorpio feels and is faster than Safari(refer AUTOCAR INDIA and OVERDRIVE),the ability to pull from lower rpms and in gear acceleration including the need to shift to lower gear is better in Scorpio.

[Could you please specify here as to what exactly are you evaluating ? Cause with the Safari's height adjustable driver seat I think you can see even a nail on the road so I think this enables better maneuvering in traffic also with the Power mirrors you can change and check view of traffic on left and right to slot the vehicle out of the gaps hence making it easier for Safari to get out of jam's.]

I am talking about the turning radius,the ability to reverse and the ease of driving in traffic.

PS : Dont get agressive because you own a safari,even Scorpio is a nice vehicle though it does not have a big fan following or ownership here on team-bhp
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Old 4th January 2008, 14:53   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
JUDA,i think both the vehicles are equally good with their own strengths and weakness,here are answers to your questions,

"I really don't know if I can agree with this, difference of 20BHP comparo and you feel performance better than Safari?? and what exactly are you talking about in reference to gear changes. Changing gears at lower speeds or RPMs?"

Despite the 20 BHP difference Scorpio feels and is faster than Safari(refer AUTOCAR INDIA and OVERDRIVE),the ability to pull from lower rpms and in gear acceleration including the need to shift to lower gear is better in Scorpio.

[Could you please specify here as to what exactly are you evaluating ? Cause with the Safari's height adjustable driver seat I think you can see even a nail on the road so I think this enables better maneuvering in traffic also with the Power mirrors you can change and check view of traffic on left and right to slot the vehicle out of the gaps hence making it easier for Safari to get out of jam's.]

I am talking about the turning radius,the ability to reverse and the ease of driving in traffic.

PS : Dont get agressive because you own a safari,even Scorpio is a nice vehicle though it does not have a big fan following or ownership here on team-bhp
No anshuman I am not getting aggressive at all cause I own a Safari. FYI I own a Scoprio CRDe as well [Not 2.2]. I was just trying to reason the comments made by you. We are all here for healthy discussions aren't we. Why get aggressive over it. We didn't built the vehicles we simply bought em.

Anyways coming back to your comments on the Turning radius, Safari is a big vehicle truly. It requires space seriously. Reversing I think both are the same once you get an idea of the size of the rear it is a matter of habit.

The gear ratio and acceleration issue I disagree with completely cause the Third gear in Safari 2.2 VTT can out run happy petro head sedans. I can tell you this first hand. I don't think Scorpio is a match there at all.

Also with the Top speed, I don't think I can take the M-Hawk to 160km/hr even with ABS or crash guards in it.

Cheerio!
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Old 4th January 2008, 15:00   #38
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Nice review.

We have a 2.6 CRDe Scorpio.

I like the vehicle for its power, ease of driving in traffic, size, looks, value for money and street presence.

Not happy with the ride (especially back seat) and handling (scary on highway).

Last edited by PatienceWins : 4th January 2008 at 15:02.
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Old 4th January 2008, 20:02   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Despite the 20 BHP difference Scorpio feels and is faster than Safari(refer AUTOCAR INDIA and OVERDRIVE),the ability to pull from lower rpms and in gear acceleration including the need to shift to lower gear is better in Scorpio.
I have not driven the mHawk (they didnt have one available for tests) but the 2.2 VTT has so much power low down that it is difficult to buy this logic. It literally whips you back on to your seats - quite a achievement for me, when the other car I drive does this without even breaking into a sweat. Especially when:

1. Owners of CRDes comment that the power increase over the previous version does not seem noticeable.

2. The 3.0 Dicor was more than capable of keeping up with the CRDes and a good driver could keep ahead too.

3. The 3.0 is totally out of sorts when compared to the 2.2 VTT in initial acceleration. The low and mid range torque of the 2.2 VTT is quite phenomenal, though the 3.0 torques its way ahead after 80 kmph.

Juda talks a lot about the 3rd gear on the VTT and over at the Tata Club Italia the guys rave about this 3rd gear phenomenon as well. They call it the killer Gear 3.

As for the mags, no comment. I'm sure bigman will come along presently to tell us more about that.

Last edited by Steeroid : 4th January 2008 at 20:03.
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Old 4th January 2008, 20:19   #40
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The 3rd is truly a killer. Makes the beast feel more like an automatic in the city traffic with it's massive range!!!

t


Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Juda talks a lot about the 3rd gear on the VTT and over at the Tata Club Italia the guys rave about this 3rd gear phenomenon as well. They call it the killer Gear 3.
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Old 4th January 2008, 20:43   #41
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Is this the vehicle that Mahindra is planning to sell in the US?
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Old 4th January 2008, 22:58   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I have not driven the mHawk (they didnt have one available for tests) but the 2.2 VTT has so much power low down that it is difficult to buy this logic. It literally whips you back on to your seats - quite a achievement for me, when the other car I drive does this without even breaking into a sweat. Especially when:

1. Owners of CRDes comment that the power increase over the previous version does not seem noticeable.

2. The 3.0 Dicor was more than capable of keeping up with the CRDes and a good driver could keep ahead too.

3. The 3.0 is totally out of sorts when compared to the 2.2 VTT in initial acceleration. The low and mid range torque of the 2.2 VTT is quite phenomenal, though the 3.0 torques its way ahead after 80 kmph.

Juda talks a lot about the 3rd gear on the VTT and over at the Tata Club Italia the guys rave about this 3rd gear phenomenon as well. They call it the killer Gear 3.

As for the mags, no comment. I'm sure bigman will come along presently to tell us more about that.
Steeroid i dont get salary or some incentive to promote a mahindra vehicle and even i am not even defending my investment,if you feel so go ahead and test drive MHawk for your self then lets discus it here,why do you find hard to digest that some other SUV performs better?

Last edited by .anshuman : 4th January 2008 at 23:00.
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Old 4th January 2008, 23:14   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
why do you find hard to digest that some other SUV performs better?
Because the SUV in question produces less power and torque for the same weight. That is why. The other reasons are very clearly mentioned in my post.

I fail to understand how a 138 bhp @ 4,000 rpm and 320 nm @ 1,700~2,700 motor propelling a 2,650 kg GWV vehicle is slower than a 120 bhp @ 4,000 rpm and 290 nm @ 1,800 ~ 2,800 motor propelling a GVW of 2,510. The base vehicles (3.0 Dicor and the CRDe) were quite similar in performance - how come you add 5 bhp & 12 nm to one and 23 bhp & 20 nm to the other and yet the one with the smaller increment is now faster?

One can understand if the difference in output was marginal - then the gearing and driveability of the engine comes into play. But with 15% more power and torque it would seem that there's something wrong with the figures. Or that Tata Motors is lying about their output figures.

Last edited by Steeroid : 4th January 2008 at 23:24.
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Old 4th January 2008, 23:26   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Because the SUV in question produces less power and torque for the same weight. That is why. The other reasons are very clearly mentioned in my post. The base vehicles (3.0 Dicor and the CRDe) were quite similar in performance - how come you add 5 bhp to one and 23 bhp to the other and yet the one with the smaller increment is still faster?

I fail to understand how a 138 bhp @ 4,000 rpm and 320 nm @ 1,700~2,700 motor propelling a 2,650 kg GWV vehicle is slower than a 120 bhp @ 4,000 rpm and 290 nm @ 1,800 ~ 2,800 motor propelling a GVW of 2,510.

One can understand if the difference in output was marginal - then the gearing and driveability of the engine comes into play. But with 15% more power and torque it would seem that there's something wrong with the figures. Or that Tata Motors is lying about their output figures.
Even i was disappointed when i saw just 120 BHP output.I think its power all along the rev range rather than peak power that matters,for example do you remember the 1.6 accent that had some 101bhp peak power but felt slower than the 91bhp Ikon.
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Old 4th January 2008, 23:36   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Even i was disappointed when i saw just 120 BHP output.I think its power all along the rev range rather than peak power that matters,for example do you remember the 1.6 accent that had some 101bhp peak power but felt slower than the 91bhp Ikon.
Well then the power curves have to be drastically different - I would be surprised because the engines are allegedly similar in all respects. There was even talk about the same engineering firm working on the same base engine. Again, one would expect slower 0-60 figures if the Safari was lethargic off the blocks - far from it, there's TOO much torque low down.

Time for an independent shootout, I would think.

Last edited by Steeroid : 4th January 2008 at 23:38.
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