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Old 14th March 2008, 20:29   #136
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Guys, people are mentioning in the previous two pages about "good / bad gearboxes". Are we not actually referring to gear shift accuracy, comfort and predictability?

For me, a "good gearbox" is a box which (a) matches the engine, its torque, speed and vehicle's transmission. (b) is good ratioed (c) long lasting. These are basically design issues, and IMHO cannot be assessed in TDs.

@trrk - point taken. It was a bit disappointing (but inevitable) that Koyenco go in for a smaller facility for their Tata dealership. BMW dealership will have smaller volumes, right?
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Old 14th March 2008, 21:45   #137
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Can we all concentrate our discussions on Palio MJD please??
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Old 14th March 2008, 21:47   #138
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Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR View Post
Guys, people are mentioning in the previous two pages about "good / bad gearboxes". Are we not actually referring to gear shift accuracy, comfort and predictability?
For me, a "good gearbox" is a box which (a) matches the engine, its torque, speed and vehicle's transmission. (b) is good ratioed (c) long lasting. These are basically design issues, and IMHO cannot be assessed in TDs.
Doesn't both contribute to make a good gearbox?

Let me just take my car, WagonR, for an example. The ratios are nicely matched to the engine, and has been specially mentioned in magazine reviews too. But whats the use when the gearshifts feel rubbery and a pain to slot?
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@trrk - point taken. It was a bit disappointing (but inevitable) that Koyenco go in for a smaller facility for their Tata dealership. BMW dealership will have smaller volumes, right?
But being a premium badge, their demands are high!
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Old 14th March 2008, 21:52   #139
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I thought this was a test drive thread. Where are the Test Drive Reports.
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Old 14th March 2008, 21:56   #140
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Originally Posted by v1p3r View Post
As for substantiating my claims, I once started a thread based on nothing but facts. Here it is: http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-1-why-16.html (Fiat Palio Stile 1.1 - WHY?)

V1p3r : Quoting from your thread-

Ok, this is just a representation of facts printed in ACI this month. It makes me wonder WHY anyone would buy a Fiat Palio Stile 1.1:

1. The Palio has the WORST city mileage of all. 10.2 kmpl, compared to 12.3 for the Spark and 12.1 for the Xing.

My Palio returned a constant milage of 13.5 in city with 60% A/C. The best highway milage was 16.8 with 50% A/C

2. The Palio is the SLOWEST of all. It is the only car which does not even cross 140. It stops dead at 132 kmph.

I dont care much for top speeds. The best I have done on my BMW 323i is 150, with a top speed of 256 kmph . And BTW, I have done 145 on the speedo of my Palio. After all how long can anyone drive at top speeds?

3. The Palio is the SLOWEST in in-gear pulls. 20-80 in 3rd takes 15.1 seconds for the Spark, and 13.19 seconds for the Xing. The Xeta, which is similar to the Stile in many respects, does it in 15.25 seconds. The Palio takes 19.98 seconds! That's almost 5 seconds off its nearest rival! It is 9-14 seconds off on the 40-100 4th pull! And it does a 20 second 0-100.

No comments. I dont participate in races and drags. I drive on roads used by others.

4. The Palio is the 2nd WORST to brake. Only the Indica takes 0.83m more to stop from 80 kmph. So much for safe 'European' cars.

I dont know about other cars mentioned as I have not driven any of them. I have had to panic brake twice on my palio, once on 120 and once on 100 and both times I was happy with the braking distance.

All figures are from this month's ACI shootout.

All figures given by me are from personal experience. I have owned the palio for 87 days today and done 7850 kms. Milage after second free service and oil change not calculated yet.
For those who believe, no explanantion is needed. For those who don't. none is possible.
Peace.

Cheers,

Rajan

Last edited by PatchyBoy : 14th March 2008 at 21:57.
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Old 14th March 2008, 22:17   #141
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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
I thought this was a test drive thread. Where are the Test Drive Reports.
Yeah. I just logged on and found that MF has given me a lot of homework to do, which I will skip and answer him personally rather than puking all over this thread.

For the record, I might just be booking a Palio SDX myself - rebuilding a car for my aged parents to use was a good idea to start with, but a bad one to execute remotely. Swift D was not even considered, the Indica is getting ready for replacement and the Getz was a mouthwatering prospect for a personal car but at the price and for the purpose in mind (for parents) it did seem like a major overkill on both counts - performance and price.

Last edited by Steeroid : 14th March 2008 at 22:27.
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Old 14th March 2008, 22:33   #142
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Originally Posted by gemithomas View Post
I thought this was a test drive thread. Where are the Test Drive Reports.
I'm eagerly awaiting them too...not many folks seem to have gotten their hands on the Palio MJD yet
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Old 15th March 2008, 00:16   #143
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For the record, I might just be booking a Palio SDX myself
Shock ! Horror! I , infact almost all of us were programmed to think that Steeroid and FIAT are not meant for each other. Now we'd have to undo whatever has been fed into our brains since all these years.Sheesh. Its actually hard to imagine that statement from someone who once said this -
" I'm gonna set a filter for the word 'FIAT' and ignore any thread that comes with that four-letter word."
Post No.187, pg 13 :-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-1-why-13.html (Fiat Palio Stile 1.1 - WHY?)
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Old 15th March 2008, 00:21   #144
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Yeah. I just logged on and found that MF has given me a lot of homework to do, which I will skip and answer him personally rather than puking all over this thread.
Apologies.

Quote:
For the record, I might just be booking a Palio SDX myself - rebuilding a car for my aged parents to use was a good idea to start with, but a bad one to execute remotely. Swift D was not even considered, the Indica is getting ready for replacement and the Getz was a mouthwatering prospect for a personal car but at the price and for the purpose in mind (for parents) it did seem like a major overkill on both counts - performance and price.
Why not the i10? Its a better car for aged people. I am serious. You seriously shocked me when you even considered the Palio.
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Old 15th March 2008, 02:18   #145
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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
Why not the i10? Its a better car for aged people. I am serious.
Diesel. Plus, they're not going to be driving it. I'll get a driver for the tanki.

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Originally Posted by moralfibre View Post
You seriously shocked me when you even considered the Palio.
Why so? I still will need to find out what my parents think of it, though.
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Old 15th March 2008, 02:37   #146
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Originally Posted by roms View Post
Shock ! Horror! I , infact almost all of us were programmed to think that Steeroid and FIAT are not meant for each other. Now we'd have to undo whatever has been fed into our brains since all these years.Sheesh. Its actually hard to imagine that statement from someone who once said this -
" I'm gonna set a filter for the word 'FIAT' and ignore any thread that comes with that four-letter word."
Post No.187, pg 13 :-
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...-1-why-13.html (Fiat Palio Stile 1.1 - WHY?)
You guys take this thing too seriously.

For the record, I stand by what I said there - my stand has always been against the unrealistically over-the-top reactions and comments from users of that particular car, the mindless glorification of what is at the end of the day an ordinary product (damn, there I go again!), the refusal of such people to acknowledge any of that vehicle's weaknesses or shortcomings and their general inability to see any good in any other vehicle. If my comments have been strong it was only to fight fire with fire (yeah and a few bombs from time to time - kya kare? Control nahin hota!). And it will continue to be so.

The first car that I went to test drive when I went shopping for my first "brand new" car in India was the Siena 1.6 Petrol. I ended up buying an Accent instead (sacrilege? I think not, because that was a car that gave me miles of smooth, trouble free driving). This, however, was before I bought an Alfa Romeo abroad - an experience that gave me enough reason to stay miles away from the manufacturer.

I've never said that the car is a bad product, though I've never believed that it was a great one either. Highly overhyped, too.

Horses for courses - if I get a good diesel car within the Swift's price range without the Swift's quirky looks and depressing cabin, and without the Indica's ridiculous cockpit and driving posture (which is important for me), why not? I still wish the Getz CRDi was a bit cheaper, though - then I could have fun with the car, too!

Last edited by Steeroid : 15th March 2008 at 02:43.
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Old 15th March 2008, 07:32   #147
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Steer, Agree with you 100%. For me, a car is something which should fit, firstly, a given budget, and secondly, a particular purpose. Priorities will change with people and circumstances (and moods, in matters like this).

Only reason I did not consider fiat for my first car was that it was out of our budget. Next car - may be. Memories of the refreshing changes from the Padmini Safari after several years of "side seat driving" (at ages below 10) are still fresh in my mind.

OT:-

"X on steeroids" is becoming a clichéd term. We can now look forward to saying "Steeroid on FIAT"!!.

Last edited by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR : 15th March 2008 at 07:34.
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Old 15th March 2008, 10:33   #148
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Diesel. Plus, they're not going to be driving it. I'll get a driver for the tanki.

Why so? I still will need to find out what my parents think of it, though.
If the car is going to be for your parents then make them go for a long test drive to see how comfortable they are in the seats. To be honest, I have no idea how comfortable the back seat of the Palio is but the front seats in my S10 are pretty hard with minimal cushioning and can get uncomfortable on long journeys, specially for older people. This, of course, is a 2003 model. Maybe Fiat has changed the seats in the Stile though knowing their track record, it seems impossible.

Last edited by amit : 15th March 2008 at 10:35.
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Old 15th March 2008, 10:53   #149
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Maybe Fiat has changed the seats in the Stile though knowing their track record, it seems impossible.
I think they have changed the front seats in the stile. I have driven / been driven in Moralfibre's Palio a fair amount and have also test driven the Stile.

I distinctly noticed that the Stile (1.6) Definitely had better lower back support.

IIRC, the current seats are provided by Tata Johnson.

Anyway, I'm sure MF (Also short for Mr. Fiat) will be along shortly to shed some more light on this!

Suhail
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Old 15th March 2008, 11:39   #150
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@steer: am also not a big fan of maruti's rattle but dont you want to wait for Maruti's dezire or passion thingie OR is it out of your cut off limits?
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