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Old 21st April 2008, 20:49   #91
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Originally Posted by nickatnite View Post
To you and all who think that i'm condoning the dealer's reaction is missing my point. The dealer guys who accompanied him happened to react in a manner not befitting their role. But, we must understand that these guys must have had a rude shock having been through that incident along with 'sunson'. They are individuals and not an organization. Don't blame the organization for that.
From Sunson's account, it is clear that the dealer's reaction was planned and happened some time after the accident. It was not a knee-jerk reaction by some individuals, as you assume. Secondly, even if it was a knee-jerk reaction by some individuals, the organization will be held accountable for the actions of its employees, who were on duty. Being from the US, you should know this much better than me. You must have heard umpteen stories about multinationals being sued successfully for what seems to us to be the most trivial of reasons.
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I feel for the brutal way in which 'sunson' was manhandled, despite the trauma he too suffered.But, there is no smoke without a fire.That is why we should react in a more mature manner and give all the benefit of the doubt till the dust settles and i sincerely hope 'sunson' will share more of this story with us.
It is possible that Sunson said or did something that irritated the dealer and the thugs. But that does not justify their actions.
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This is an eye-opener for me!. I will never operate a business in India. Customers or prospects will bang up my property and expect to walk away. I'm supposed to just wave and say Thank you!.
You are missing the point again. This was an accident and not a deliberate action intended to damage somebody's property. Under the circumstances, if you hope to do business, your actions should be measured and appropriate. Again, if you think that you can get away with this kind of brutality in the US, you are badly mistaken. The aggrieved party will sue the pants off everybody, including probably the US Govt.
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Old 21st April 2008, 21:44   #92
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@sunson, my sympathies.

I know that was one hell of a traumatic experience. As people have already adviced, meet a lawyer first, discuss this with him. Issue stop payment order on the cheque(s) issued by you.

The arrest is "normal"; and you would have got bail anyway.

No - the ECU is not a black box. 5 to 10 minutes of disconnected batteries and it loses everything stored in it.

The dealer's guys ought to have done soemthing to protect / save you from the spot - they could /did not is probably pardonable, given the mob fury. But the dealer guy coming to the HOSPITAL (did I get you right?) in a dealer vehicle points to the fact that the dealer guy who was accompanying you with Ali was tracking you and sure, you can sue the dealership for damages for what happened at the dealership.

Did the car have "test drive" stickers?

Ask for a survey of the car by YOUR surveyors - not just the insurance / dealer's surveyors. Make sure that the surveyor you hire does not have a conflict of interest - means occassional survey jobs from the same insurance / dealer company.

Stay cool. Use this as a learning experience.

And as I said in your intro thread, consider buying a hatch - only that instead of experience - looks like your "stars" are in a very bad mood.
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Old 21st April 2008, 22:11   #93
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@nickatnite: you are missing the whole point. From the narration it is evident that it was not a knee-jerk reaction. An employer is accountable for all the actions by its employees. We understand the ethics of an organization by interacting with the employees of the organization. You get to see the true colour only in situations like these. At the showroom usually we get to see only sugar coated smiles and plesantaries.
If a dealer cannot handle such situations in a civilized way they should not arrange test drives in busy bangalore roads or accompany customers for test drives. They should as well have test drives in a vacant playground. Every job or business has its own risks. They cannot get into violence for the sake of mitigating their risks. There are decent ways to extract money and we should avoid such anti social organizations.
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Old 21st April 2008, 22:18   #94
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Originally Posted by rks View Post
From Sunson's account, it is clear that the dealer's reaction was planned and happened some time after the accident. It was not a knee-jerk reaction by some individuals, as you assume. Secondly, even if it was a knee-jerk reaction by some individuals, the organization will be held accountable for the actions of its employees, who were on duty. Being from the US, you should know this much better than me. You must have heard umpteen stories about multinationals being sued successfully for what seems to us to be the most trivial of reasons.
It is possible that Sunson said or did something that irritated the dealer and the thugs. But that does not justify their actions.
You are missing the point again. This was an accident and not a deliberate action intended to damage somebody's property. Under the circumstances, if you hope to do business, your actions should be measured and appropriate. Again, if you think that you can get away with this kind of brutality in the US, you are badly mistaken. The aggrieved party will sue the pants off everybody, including probably the US Govt.
Accidents may be caused by negligent driving. Let us not accuse anybody until the facts are 100% clear. The dealer is also an aggrieved party in this matter. Violence is not condoned anywhere. In the US, the rights of all parties are equally protected. Customers cannot act recklessly nor claim undue damages and everything is settled in a court of law. Businesses too have to act appropriately to avoid risk of litigation. When i needed help and was stuck in the middle of the road in Chennai, it was the very people we accuse of indulging in mob fury, the so called under-classes, who helped me get back on the road again. It is called street justice. They know. If it was an accident and unavoidable, they would have been the first to put the injured in an auto and take them to an hospital. I've seen that too in person. But if they know it was an accident caused by recklessness , they vent their fury fast and swiftly. That's why i don't want to pass judgement on anybody in this matter until 'sunson' recovers fully and shares the story with us to the end. As i said in my first post in this thread, i respect him for bringing this matter in the open and allowing for discussion.
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Old 21st April 2008, 22:33   #95
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Originally Posted by sunson View Post
I was actually on the phone while I sat in the car and without my own conscious instruments I seem to have fastened the seat-belt. Good thing I did because that piece of belt saved me!

...slightly twist the steering.

Zoom! The damn car took an oblique turn and hit the Divider! I guess it hit and breached the bonnet that the airbags popped out. Panic and further panic. My mind just stopped working ...I'm now not only hit but further accelerating the car with no visibility (due to the air bags) and a highly confused / startled mind.

To a viewer it would look like a stupid accident, hitting a divider a slow speed while turning and accelerating instead of braking thereby ploughing into an auto.

Your experience suggests that dealer must be goonda/mafia or political person.

Take care.
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Old 21st April 2008, 22:40   #96
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This must be an eye-opener, for the pathetic state of consumers in India. You must be glad to do business here, since the rules are lax. Hey mate, you have caught the wrong end of the rope.
Could you tell me what happens, in which ever country you are, when the test drive vehicle meets an accident during a test drive? Do you beat up the potential buyer? Why limit to test drive only, do you beat the driver when there is an accident?
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This is an eye-opener for me!. I will never operate a business in India. Customers or prospects will bang up my property and expect to walk away. I'm supposed to just wave and say Thank you!.
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Old 21st April 2008, 22:52   #97
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My sympathies with you brother.
I have faced a similar situation, only difference was it was my car that hit a cab. Before I could realise aything I had collected a big crowd with the cab driver trying to open my door. Then comes a samaritan like Ali, he was a constable in my area and knew who I was & where I lived etc,etc.
The mob mentality seems horrible in Bangalore, I guess Mumbai is much better leave aside sensitive localities.
People dont really bother. My advice to you Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V the post to Maruti Udyog.
Let me know if I could be of any assistance.
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Old 21st April 2008, 23:10   #98
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Sunson.... If you have the luck and investigative brains to prove that the particular SX4 DOES NOT HAVE INSURANCE, YOU ARE SAFE. You can take BIMAL for a RIDE.

I Personally feel you should go to the MEDIA with this information and tarnish Bimal name so that every bangalorean thinks twice before going to such a cheap dealer.
@svsantosh:
It would be really nice to approach the media. They have even managed to bring politicians to justice. In this case, it can help a lot.
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Old 21st April 2008, 23:57   #99
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A very unfortunate chain of events! My only advice stay cool and methodically sue the hell out of the dealer!
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Old 22nd April 2008, 00:02   #100
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Well...If you ask me, sue the pants off these fools. No dealer or anyone for that matter has the right to manhandle you, especially for a blank cheque!! That's just absurd! Consumer court will definately side with you. Do you have witnesses to the harrassment?

Then crucify them, post your experience everywhere you can! Write to the tabloids, the press. Get them to do an expose. That's the only way these people will learn that they can't get away with all this bhaigiri.

Damn it's so hard not to swear in this post...Such behaviour from people in unacceptable. Such an accident, especially on a demo car is most definately covered by insurance. Furthermore I am sure that the accident would have resulted from the ****ty condition of the demo car. I have seen demo cars with 10K Km on the clock that require suspension overhauls! They're just used like tractors.

In the end I wish you luck in whichever path you choose. Please don't be afraid to speak up. Your post here is only the first step. Remember the free press loves stuff like this...With a dearth of good news you'll prolly even make the "Breaking News"

cheers:
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Old 22nd April 2008, 00:32   #101
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Originally Posted by amtak View Post
I don't understand what is wrong with we Indians that when ever some accident happens, we start beating the person instead of offering first aid?
That is true there are very few who are willing to help when someone else needs it, and blame the world for not helping when they need it!

I have assisted at least 10 or so accident victims in my 3 years in Mumbai, and out of those around 4 were quite serious [emergency cases]. I have a habbit of stopping when I see an accident [if possible], getting out and checking to see if anyone needs aid.

However the police are just crazy...They ask questions like "Who is this person to you? Why did you stop your car and get out?" And then detain you for extended periods of time. I have thrice been asked to go to the police station to give a statement. Now being a Medico, we have a subject which deals with medical law, and so thankfully I am well aware of the fact that my statements can be recorded well within the confines of the hospital. Seriously the average policeman is pathetic! I've had to use influence [contacts] to get out this questioning a few times, simply because they waste so many hours of your time! It's just inefficient.

I love the fact that I am qualified to help, but honestly first aid can be given by anyone! The aftermath of helping someone in need though, it leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.

Will I help someone I see on the road again? Damn right I will!!!

cheers:
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Old 22nd April 2008, 00:55   #102
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This is a scary post and your ordeal gives goose bumps - this is a nightmare situation to be in.

You must have gone through all the posts and the way you should proceed - and whatever steps you take please take them up fast. You must get out this fear psychosis and hit back now.

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Will I help someone I see on the road again? Damn right I will!!!
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Old 22nd April 2008, 02:29   #103
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Originally Posted by diabloo View Post
This must be an eye-opener, for the pathetic state of consumers in India. You must be glad to do business here, since the rules are lax. Hey mate, you have caught the wrong end of the rope.
Could you tell me what happens, in which ever country you are, when the test drive vehicle meets an accident during a test drive? Do you beat up the potential buyer? Why limit to test drive only, do you beat the driver when there is an accident?
Please click on the link below and read this blog news item. What will be your reaction if you were the dealer?.And you know that what applies to the goose, applies to the gander. Everyone gets the royal run-around in this country.Try hitting someone in your car in the US and talk nonchalantly about it like another member here in Mumbai. You'll be lucky you don't get shot. People can tell if it was unavoidable or if you were being reckless and careless or a plain ol' bad driver. Indians are very careful drivers in the US, because they know the consequences of reckless behaviour , especially those who live away from big cities. In the countryside they'll shoot first and then call 911, and claim self defense. There's nothing one can do about it.Worse has happened. I can understand folks sympathizing with 'sunson's' plight. I do too. But, the irrational and one-sided comments got me going. What can i do?. This is India and this is howthe middle class feels against business and the poor, it seems. It is futile for me to try to balance evrything out. I will not comment further. Regards.

Swift Sedan goes on test drive, ends up in river | JapanCarBlog.com

Last edited by nickatnite : 22nd April 2008 at 02:41.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 03:44   #104
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Originally Posted by kavesh55 View Post
My sympathies with you brother.
I have faced a similar situation, only difference was it was my car that hit a cab. Before I could realise aything I had collected a big crowd with the cab driver trying to open my door. Then comes a samaritan like Ali, he was a constable in my area and knew who I was & where I lived etc,etc.
The mob mentality seems horrible in Bangalore, I guess Mumbai is much better leave aside sensitive localities.
People dont really bother. My advice to you Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V the post to Maruti Udyog.
Let me know if I could be of any assistance.
Brother?. Your car hit a cab?. Were you driving?. I guess it is OK to "hit a cab" in India.
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Old 22nd April 2008, 04:56   #105
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I am lost for words. This is really upsetting and shocking to say the least. I just cannot imagine the madness you have gone though and come out of and I sincerely hope you are safe and well and can put this behind you as soon as possible.

You have to question our humanity in this case because this is not the only instance and case after case not just accidents we are seeing the glaring absence of basic humanity in this country. Forget humanism, this is far worse, close to sadism. Where are the good samaritans, where is the concern and help, where is the basic human instinct to assist those in need and not trash them, why this rush to judge and punish by the mobs?

Without the chance rescue by Ali Sunson would quite likely be severely hurt or god forbid killed. Something seriously wrong with us. Why so much anger and violence for the most trivial things?

We keep on making tall claims about ourselves to anyone who will listen and yet when it comes to the crunch, its pure barbarism. Its not good enough to say this happens, accept it. Why accept brutality, not with this level of barbaric behavior. We certainly need to understand and address this violent trend on a broader long term level if we want to be a civilized society.

And this could happen to any one of us. First there seems to be resentment about anyone who drives and god forbid if you are not a 'local', 'youngish' and appear 'prosperous' in that order. In Bangalore it seems to be 'IT', so its not spur of the moment act, this is some brewing resentment manifesting itself. The slightest thing and a mob baying for blood and they can and will kill you. I have seen people picking up huge roads or rocks to attack people's head at the slightest and most trivial issue.

I think on this board we need to jointly develop a support group for those who get stuck in such a scenario and how we can get together in whichever city members are to help legally or in any other way. In this case he only had his dad and wife and maybe if there was a support structure from other teambhp members his situation could ease a bit.

On the whole a gruesome reminder on the how nasty things have become on our roads and its not just accidents we need to be worried about but people who need a pretext to take it on you. For others, if you can don't think, just run for your life. That should be instinct or just lie dead and wait for help.

Last edited by raul : 22nd April 2008 at 05:05.
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