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Old 25th May 2008, 20:14   #46
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5.He was not aware of krr sound and he specifically said that only normal desiel should be used on the new engine.He also highlighted that they have replaced fuel pump of two vehicles worth Rs.44000/-each under warranty because they got damaged due to use of premium desiel.
Manohar, did he say anything about normal diesel with additive, i.e., STP or System D doing any damage to the fuel pump or is that safe?

The one time I used normal diesel [no additive] found the engine rough and since then again have been on IOC premium, the smoothness is amazing.

A big wonder, how a fuel with special additives [i.e. the premium fuels] can damage a fuel pump? Are the additives themselves working as contaminants or is the lubrication in premium oils not that enough?
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Old 25th May 2008, 21:14   #47
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Manohar, congrats on your 'upgrade'!
I would be particularly interested in your experience about one year down the line. It will help a lot in making up my mind on a similar 'upgrade'.
I see that a wee issue of some 'krrr' is already on your mind. Hope it proves to be a non-issue.

Kindly keep us all updated.
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Old 26th May 2008, 09:10   #48
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At least the very first batch of Safari 2.2 definitely does not have the "krrr" or whatever at any rpm as such those noises are totally absent for me. I still dont have a music system in my LX.

Neither does me/anyone recalling the demo vehicles having that particular "krrr" noise.

The only issue that I have is that of the harshness on using normal diesel, and thus still using only IOC premium and the smoothness is back.
Both dadu and myself do not recollect the Krr sound in the Demo vehicles

But then you may have a point as regards the "1st batch" of vehicles.
I recollect that the Demo vehicle though running with the speedo in off position, the sales guy informing me that they would have covered ~ 3000+ Km already. This was in end Nov '07.

You may be driving with a light foot. Many do. If I drive with a light foot then the Krr noise is not evident.

P.S: I have not been able to record the sound. I do not have recording equipement and my mobile phone was awfully inadequate.

Last edited by kingshukt : 26th May 2008 at 09:12.
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Old 26th May 2008, 09:31   #49
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You may be driving with a light foot. Many do. If I drive with a light foot then the Krr noise is not evident.

I dont believe anyone drives Safari with a light foot, you cant even if you have a whole lot of patience. And definitely not someone who is addicted to the turbo whine. Safari VTT-TMT is not my daily commute, it is my highway/rally/stormchasing/traffic beater/offroader and whatnot.

Categorically I have to say that there is no krrr noise at least in the first batch vehicle.

Anyway the much more serious issue is the normal diesel vs the premium diesel damaging fuel pumps? I am very reluctant to change over to normal after the smoothness of premium.

Last edited by adc : 26th May 2008 at 09:33.
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Old 26th May 2008, 10:12   #50
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In the manual TATA's have specified the Fuel to be used and those are met by any diesel available int the Metro's, major cities.

I dont think the premium can damage the Fuel pump, unless the lubricity is reduced, which is not the case.

If the fuel pump comes out faulty it will be a manufacturing defect and not the diesel (thats a cover up).

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Anyway the much more serious issue is the normal diesel vs the premium diesel damaging fuel pumps? I am very reluctant to change over to normal after the smoothness of premium.
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Old 26th May 2008, 14:51   #51
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My advise would be if it is working fine with you using premium deisel,then continue with it.But remember not to use any additives.Anyway,the vehicle is under warranty for 2+2 years.As of now i am using normal deisel.
Need advise on leather seats.May be can purchase leather and get it stitched.I plan to go for one colour brown with double stitching red colour thread.I think it goes well with the light interiors.Branded will also do if it is reasonable.
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Old 29th May 2008, 09:12   #52
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Upgraded the headlights with 100/90 bulbs as the previous ones were not sufficient.Now,it feels adequate.Except for the Krr sound i am really enjoying the new vehicle.Should i try premium diesel and check the Krr sound?
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Old 29th May 2008, 16:17   #53
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Originally Posted by adc View Post
Anyway the much more serious issue is the normal diesel vs the premium diesel damaging fuel pumps? I am very reluctant to change over to normal after the smoothness of premium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
I dont think the premium can damage the Fuel pump, unless the lubricity is reduced, which is not the case.
Let me put it this way : I have yet to see a manufacturer who recommends premium diesel, but can give you atleast 10 who prohibit the same for their cars. Purity is the key word here...*pure* regular diesel is much better for your car than the premium range.

Quote:
If the fuel pump comes out faulty it will be a manufacturing defect and not the diesel (thats a cover up).
I know of atleast one case where the manufacturer did NOT honour the engine warranty, because premium diesel was used. Another case was mentioned here on Team-BHP itself.
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Old 29th May 2008, 19:51   #54
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Your post made me to think why not and search for manufacturers worldwide who did!!!(see attchd, its zip file renamed to xls due to format restrictions, pls rename back once you download)

BENTLEY
BMW
GM - Based on engine type
HONDA/ Acura
Lamborghini
Land Rover
Mercedes Benz
Nissan Infiniti
Porche
Rolls Royce
Subaro
Volvo

The interesting thing is that they also specify the RON/ Octane ratings to be more precise and clear on the fuel usage based on engine types too.

On the contrary, most Indian Automobile manufacturer's keep a open book, just to their advantage and always almost blame the fuel quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO - Touring View Post
Let me put it this way : I have yet to see a manufacturer who recommends premium diesel, but can give you atleast 10 who prohibit the same for their cars. Purity is the key word here...*pure* regular diesel is much better for your car than the premium range.

I know of atleast one case where the manufacturer did NOT honour the engine warranty, because premium diesel was used. Another case was mentioned here on Team-BHP itself.
Attached Files
File Type: xls 2006AutoManufacturerFuelRecommendations04-18-06.xls (267.0 KB, 435 views)
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Old 29th May 2008, 21:49   #55
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congrats on your upgrade.

Guys why dont you all guys post your safari pics on the new thread at SUV's Muv's and 4x4. All T-BHP Safari Owners- Your Car Pics here Please

Lets get kicking an count the number of Safari's on the Forum.

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 29th May 2008 at 21:50.
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Old 30th May 2008, 04:03   #56
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Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
congrats on your upgrade.

Guys why dont you all guys post your safari pics on the new thread at SUV's Muv's and 4x4. All T-BHP Safari Owners- Your Car Pics here Please

Lets get kicking an count the number of Safari's on the Forum.
Hi Pavan,
The link seems to be dead.
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Old 30th May 2008, 10:40   #57
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Originally Posted by manohar View Post
Upgraded the headlights with 100/90 bulbs as the previous ones were not sufficient.Now,it feels adequate.Except for the Krr sound i am really enjoying the new vehicle.Should i try premium diesel and check the Krr sound?
Did you put in a relay. JK and others have reported that putting in relays is difficult as you have cut the headlight bulb cover.
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Old 30th May 2008, 15:25   #58
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The service manager first told me that a relay had to be put but the bulbs were fixed in no time(in probably 10 minutes time).So i doubt whether a relay was put.It was done at the dealership during first service.The bulbs used were Mico Bosch.It is pretty good.Go for it.
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Old 30th May 2008, 15:51   #59
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Let me rephrase my statement for more clarity. I have yet to see *an Indian manufacturer* who recommends Indian premium diesel.

The two only relevant ones from your list DONT! Mercedes India & BMW India strictly prohibit premium diesel from being used in their cars.

EDIT : Toyota doesnt either, for the Innova. IIRC, I do remember a member stating that Skoda is part of this list too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Your post made me to think why not and search for manufacturers worldwide who did!!!(see attchd, its zip file renamed to xls due to format restrictions, pls rename back once you download)

Last edited by GTO : 30th May 2008 at 15:58.
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Old 30th May 2008, 16:27   #60
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Thats why I wonder why, is it due to the manufacturer's or the Oil Companies ??

Both are required to follow EuroIII(BSIII) norms now which will move to EuroIV in 2010.

These norms define the Engine Emissions and the relevant fuel quality to be supplied which are being adhered to.

I just cannot think of why not?? and for whom are the oil companies making the premium, if most OEM's says NO.

EDIT: I believe the mfgr's are taking a defensive position by suggesting normal fuel and only suggest additive's if there is some problem like smoke etc like in this post for Innova. Even Hyundai India suggests use of premium under knocking conditions but they use a lot of if's and but's, again not clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Let me rephrase my statement for more clarity. I have yet to see *an Indian manufacturer* who recommends Indian premium diesel.

The two only relevant ones from your list DONT! Mercedes India & BMW India strictly prohibit premium diesel from being used in their cars.

EDIT : Toyota doesnt either, for the Innova. IIRC, I do remember a member stating that Skoda is part of this list too.

Last edited by dadu : 30th May 2008 at 16:37.
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