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Old 19th June 2008, 18:43   #151
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Either it has to be the emotional choice(safari), semi emotional choice(scorpio), because when logic comes into all this, hatchbacks start looking attractive
Now almost anyone can get confused !
Getz is not having a longer life now. Mostly will be replaced by i20. It may continue but not for long. Swift Diesel makes sense if rattles are to be tolerated. How about Fabia!
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Old 19th June 2008, 20:21   #152
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Fabia sucks big time. My TD experience was not good. maybe my expectations were too much I dont know. The Octy has a much more appealing engine.
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Old 19th June 2008, 20:36   #153
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Optra is big and costs as much as safari, and Verna is too skittish.
don't want boot for the sake of the boot

Errr....Fiat Adventure????

Damn, I said it!
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Old 19th June 2008, 22:20   #154
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
Now almost anyone can get confused !
Getz is not having a longer life now. Mostly will be replaced by i20. It may continue but not for long. Swift Diesel makes sense if rattles are to be tolerated. How about Fabia!
Skoda?
I will go bankrupt buying spares

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Errr....Fiat Adventure????

Damn, I said it!
90bhp diesel? < 6.5L? It would have been sitting in the garage.
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Old 19th June 2008, 23:19   #155
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I'm watching that thread and keenly following the restoration being done by Nitrous.

Have shortlisted a couple of JCBs and Caterpillars. You'll get to know. Keep watching this space...

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Originally Posted by supremeBaleno View Post
Ha, Chennai tbhp has just added a truck (the Nissan 1-ton ex-Army truck) to its garage, which the owner (Arka) is planning to use as daily drive.

Time to get your crane, gd-bhai.
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Old 20th June 2008, 00:11   #156
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Just bought a VLX over safari last week,being neutral i'd say safari is more comfortable and a bit more stable but it cant match scorpio in interior quality,handling,gearbox (feel and usage of right ratios),engine refinement,part throttle response,full throttle response,in gear acceleration,flat out acceleration,panel gaps,reliablity,resale value,resistance to rattle and overall quality.

Some safari owners might claim theyve driven for lakhs of kms and their cars never had issues they might be right but i can show you endless safaris which came defective from the factory and after a lakh kilometers they feel like they are decades old.

Proper review coming soon.Safari owners always welcome for a test drive of Scorpio VLX in gurgaon.
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Old 20th June 2008, 10:37   #157
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???

But be careful when you take it for servicing(read the owners description for this video, click on "more info" next to the date on the right side).

: Am sure its an one-off incident.
Sorry could no longer desist to post, I am bad

let the discussions continue now.

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Originally Posted by .anshuman View Post
Just bought a VLX over safari last week,being neutral i'd say safari is more comfortable and a bit more stable but it cant match scorpio in interior quality,handling,gearbox (feel and usage of right ratios),engine refinement,part throttle response,full throttle response,in gear acceleration,flat out acceleration,panel gaps,reliablity,resale value,resistance to rattle and overall quality.

Some safari owners might claim theyve driven for lakhs of kms and their cars never had issues they might be right but i can show you endless safaris which came defective from the factory and after a lakh kilometers they feel like they are decades old.

Proper review coming soon.Safari owners always welcome for a test drive of Scorpio VLX in gurgaon.

Last edited by dadu : 20th June 2008 at 10:41.
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Old 20th June 2008, 10:44   #158
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Shocking video. Cant believe that the vehicle caught fire while he was driving.
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Old 20th June 2008, 10:45   #159
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The owner simply says that "This incident occurred due to faulty servicing". Does not give any details. Anyways, we have another instance of M&M service goofing up so we can say that the franchisees of both Tata and M&M can screw up and bring a bad name to the company. Then again, it comes down to personal preferance and then we say TO EACH HIS OWN in an effort to bring an end to unnecessary and futile arguement.
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Old 20th June 2008, 11:52   #160
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Such videos are good for earning points in a discussion, but after watching a "caught fire" video of either a safari, or a scorpio, its not going to change the "buying decision" of anyone.
I have known of Santro, M800, Omni, Palio, Indica, Scorpio catching fire. Now I doubt if this information will stop people from buying those cars.

So please stick to the topic and have fun.

Meanwhile I am trying to get specs of scorpio, and its damn difficult from the brochure.
For example vehicle width is given.

Also the brochure of the Scorpio shows a lot of things without giving any real info. It kind of skims the surface.

On the contrary, the Tata safari brochure includes lots of details, including a wire diagram with all dimensions marked.
If somebody were to just pick up the brochure and choose, it would be a Safari.
The number of pages in both the brochures is similar, but the way they present information is totally different.

Another thing the Tata brochure has is a yellow tata safari with crash test markings crashing into the barrier. This inspires confidence.
In the scorpio one thing which made us uncomfortable in hindsight was the closeness of the knee to the dash in case of passenger. So even in a minor collision, there is good change of knee damage.
In the Safari you are sitting pretty far away from the dashboard.

On the other side, scorpio braking inspired more confidence(ABS version vs ABS version).
Mahindra has done a good job on handling(I have endured the older scorpio, it was a nightmare).
Infact if a Scorpio owner goes and TDs this version, the first reaction would be disbelief when it comes to dynamics.


Other that that I was doing a price comparison of 4x4 viz 4x2
In case of both Tata and Mahindra, the approx cost increase is 1L(its less than 1L in case of Tata)
What does Mahindra 4x4 get(2.6 version)
A 4 wheel drive system
What does Tata give?
1. 4 wheel drive with Limited slip differential at rear
2. Allow wheels
Moreover the Tata borchure tries to promote 4x4 with prominent decals etc., and explorer club links and like. Mahindra is apparently very happy with huge volumes of 4x2 it sells.

So if I wanted to make a better safari what would I do?
1. Decrease CG without affecting GC to improve dynamics. this thing is a whale now
2. Reposition rear spare wheel, it blocks vision
3 .Put in that rear over windscreen mirror thingy in all models
4. Change steering wheel so that it can be moved up by 2 inches more
5. Fix the silly roof ac to look like a factory fitted unit
6. Do something about the humongous turning radious
7. Do something about the engine vibrations around 2000rpm acclerating in higher gears
8. Kick out Delphi and bring in bosch(pipe dreams)
9. Make the fit and finish befitting of a 10L car
10. Change gearshift position so that you don't have to go to Pakistan for 1st gear and Sri Lanka for reverse

To improve the scorpio
1. Increase shotgun seat legroom by 2 inches
2. Steering wheel upward by 1-2 inches
3. More pliant ride
4. Limited slip Diff in 4x4
5. Make the gears softer
6. Cut the huge rear thingy which makes it look hideous, and do something about the grill.
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Old 20th June 2008, 11:59   #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
So please stick to the topic and have fun.
I think what Dadu was pointing out was more about the owner's comments which stated that this happened due to the service center screwing things up during service........taking about Mahindra's A.S.S
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Old 20th June 2008, 12:04   #162
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Originally Posted by dadu View Post
Am sure its an one-off incident.
Sorry could no longer desist to post, I am bad
It isnt a one-off. I have a similar video from Kerala - not so dramatic, but taken by the passengers - it starts with the paint on the bonnet bubbling, followed by smoke from the sides of the bonnet and then a full-fledged bonfire!

Also have pics of a packed differential on a TEMP regd vehicle, but all these things prove nothing. Therefore let us stop these sweeping statements about reliability that make M&M sound like the rolls royce of SUV manufacturers. Talk up your vehicle or your favourite vehicle for sure, but do not make unsubstantiated, sweeping statements on the other. This is docorum.

Last edited by Steeroid : 20th June 2008 at 12:08.
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Old 22nd June 2008, 01:49   #163
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Automobile sterling has always been the harbinger of bad things. For example the TD which convinced me that the Scorpio is actually much much more refined than the Safari.
But then the above situation is only partially correct.
The Scorpio is more refined, but not much more, and I found that by a TD in Sanya motors.
The first experience, of walking into a showroom was totally different there. Sterling guys were least interested in giving us a price list, while here the salesman went to the details, including a 13K max discount.
He had the price lists, etc., etc., and how to finance in another state blah blah.
And the biggest surprise was the TD vehicle.
It was quieter. There was no agricultural boom at 2K rpm, the gears slotted in more easily.
All this when this was a new vehicle, and the Sterling TD mule had done 4K kms.
Scorpio is still ahead in refinement, but this safari was a far cry from the one which scared us.

I went for a second TD on the advice of an insider who told me that many times Tata service centers have test drive vehicles which have been badly abused by the company and then sold to the dealer at a deeply discounted price. So another service center may have a better piece.

So has the Jury taken the decision on the safari. Well, it ain't over till the fat lady sings.
Lets see what pricing and availability the Scorpio 4x4 has, and how much VFM it is.
Since there is no Scorpio 4x4 yet, there is no dealership to talk to. As for the Safari, I have started negotiations with couple of dealers, and in all probability, the coming week will seal the deal.

BTW a few questions from Safari Owners. All the dealerships I went to gave me different answers
1. Does the 4x4 EX come with alloy wheels. The brochure ways 4x2 EX has steel wheels and 4x4EX has alloys. Anybody clarify that for me because the dealers were nocommital
2. Whats the warranty. I have heard three numbers 18+18, 18+30, 24+24.
The Dealer says Safari gets 18+18 while cars get 18+30.
The brochure says that Taxi's get 18+18 while others get 18+30, and I read somewhere on the website that Safari gets 24+24.
So Its very confusing.
I sincerely hope there is a 18+30 or a 24+24 warranty.
3. I am seeing lot of showroom cars with a nice plastic bull guard(like carryboy models) with Tata logo. Is it some aftermarket fitment, or is really the "Tata authorized" bullguard. Anybody got that?
4. How comfortable is the rear bench to sleep on, if used in a train sleeper class like fashion.(for somebody who is 6 feet in height). I know it may sound like a silly question, but its important.
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Old 22nd June 2008, 02:44   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
1. Does the 4x4 EX come with alloy wheels. The brochure ways 4x2 EX has steel wheels and 4x4EX has alloys. Anybody clarify that for me because the dealers were nocommital

Yes 4wd EX comes in alloy, it is mentioned in the brochure as well as he has it.

(NEW Safari 2.2 VVT Ex-4x4 Light Gold > The joy, the pleasure & the pain !!)http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-drives-initial-ownership-reports/38227-new-safari-2-2-vvt-ex-4x4-light-gold-joy-pleasure-pain-4.html


2. Whats the warranty. I have heard three numbers 18+18, 18+30, 24+24.
The Dealer says Safari gets 18+18 while cars get 18+30.
The brochure says that Taxi's get 18+18 while others get 18+30, and I read somewhere on the website that Safari gets 24+24.
So Its very confusing.

Default warranty is 2 years/24 months. And then you take another 24 months for all the good reasons.

http://www.safaridicor.com/warranty/warranty.asp

Download the brochure - will be clear for all queries.

http://customercare.tatamotors.com/manual/SafariDicor.pdf


3. I am seeing lot of showroom cars with a nice plastic bull guard(like carryboy models) with Tata logo. Is it some aftermarket fitment, or is really the "Tata authorized" bullguard. Anybody got that?

Yes seen such also in the showroom and the fellow said it to be TATA authorized .

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modifi...-safari-3.html (Cladding for Tata Safari?)

4. How comfortable is the rear bench to sleep on, if used in a train sleeper class like fashion.(for somebody who is 6 feet in height). I know it may sound like a silly question, but its important.
Done that once, legs have to folded somewhat - no way full stretch.

Last edited by adc : 22nd June 2008 at 02:58.
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Old 22nd June 2008, 07:40   #165
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OT: Nice to see Safari owner manual online. Any link for Scorpio 2.2 owner manual?

cheers.
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