Go Back   Team-BHP > BHP India > Team-BHP Reviews > Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 16th June 2008, 12:03   #31
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Bangalore
Posts: 3,652
Thanked: 244 Times
Default

Shoudn't be, some like the engine, some exterirors but for some the interiors work.

Its a personal choice, define your priorities and make your decision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ipkonfig View Post
More confusion again. I was inclined to booking a VTT, but this thread is making me re-think my decision ... :(

BTW thanks tsk1979 for the interesting review...
dadu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 12:04   #32
BHPian
 
bglsrini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: bangalore
Posts: 291
Thanked: 0 Times
Default

very honest report.
Yes,In lot of ways scorpio is good.
But,The space matters a lot for me and my family.
bglsrini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 12:07   #33
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,638 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Nice one TSK.

Would like to know how you felt about its built quality when you compare it with Safari's. And what about the middle row comfort. And will like to know if you were able to take curves at decent speeds.
Certainly better build quality. I cannot say the same for the older Scorpio's(2.6 Crde and non crde), but this baby looks like its built to last. As for handling, both Scorpio and Safari are pretty lousy, but safari is worst because body roll is more contained in the Scorpio. you want to avoid a cyclist at 90kmph, then scorpio it is. You want to cruise like a king and make every road an expressway, then safari it is.
As for curves at decent speeds, both can do that. In most cars sold in this country, your co passengers will puke before you reach the limit of handling of the vehicle. Seriously. If you are not going to the track, both will do good, but safari's lane changing histronics can be scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
Well done!
A humourous and slightly back handed review TSK!
But a fair one in most ways and a little subjective in some others - no need to mention which ones though because theres no need to have an argument again!
Cheers and I do hope you decide on what you are going to enjoy driving for the medium term!
Best of luck!
Well a car purchase is always subjective. Thats why there are so many cars in a single segment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyWheels View Post
A very honest review, that too coming from a person who is known (and openly acknowledged) inclination to the Safari.

Would love to see the final outcome!
Now its down to price and 4x4 availablility

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
Tanveer, here is a litmus test. If Safari EX 2.2 4x4 and Scorpio mHawk 4x4 are identically priced, what would you choose?
Even if mHawk 4x4 costs 20K more I will choose it. Any more than that, safari may win on VFM

Quote:
Originally Posted by PatienceWins View Post
Good write up Tanveer!!

We have a Scorpio 2.6 CRDe in family. I am 6 2 tall and I am not happy with the space in the front, the ride at the back is very bumpy and the handling is bad.

The car is powerful and feels like a Sedan in city with good low end torque. It is definitely value for money in that price range.

I need to TD a 2.2 to see if Mahindra has rectified the handling and comfort at back seat.
Not in safari league, but much better than the older ones. I have been tortured in an older scorpio so I know

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
I rely on your views much more in this case than scores of others. So when you say Scorp has it one up on the Safari I believe you. And thats worrysome as you said. Till date I have had this idea (in a semi solid state of fructification) that maybe my next car will be a Safari. You have now sown a seed of doubt in my mind.

By the way, did you take the car beyond 80? If so was it ok to handle? Many people seem to suggest beyond 80 Scorp is a rocky boat, particularly when thrown around. I wanted to know your views on that.

Also, with such a difference in engine characteristics I guess you have put to rest "the mother of all conspiracies" theory of the Tata and M&M having secretly together bought an engine off the shelf and used it in both their respective vehicles. Hmmm...
Above 80 safari is more straight like pliant, but scorpio can be made to change direction. To sum up, scorpio is actually better, and its no rocky boat. Compared to most sedan's both are lousy as expected. You can't make buffalo's handle like cheetas no matter how many VLCC sessions you take. A SUV is a SUV and a sedan is a sedan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by condor View Post
@tsk, 3rd row in the Scorp is & will be so, unless they change lot of things.

Ultimately, a vehicle is more than the engine. Safari is still ahead in area os Space, styling & comfort.
I have driven my indica for 104000kms. Out of that I have sat in the back row for maybe 2000kms. Now you are talking about 3rd row!
If I want to torture someone I will make them sit in 3rd row, and therefore it is in my interest its not comfortable.
On a serious note, even the back row comfort is not really a deal breaker, and the 2.2 has fixed many things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Tanveer, loved the write-up, I think the devil has bitten you & you should go for it.

But is 4x4 available even on order on the Mhawk?
Nope its not, but apparently its going to be available in July. If that does not happen I will buy the Safari EX 4x4

Quote:
Originally Posted by SRShrikanth View Post
Tanveer,

Thank you for a very selfless review. Very well-written emotional feature.

Am sure there are quite a few of us - sedan & hatchback owners - for whom the Safari - is truly the zenith of an Indian 4X4 experience. Add to it, the image factor etc.

I have personally Td'ed ( twice ) & driven around in friend's Safari 2.2 VTT's & the newer Scorp-Hawks and come back feeling pretty much " Cat-on-the-wall" kinds.

Heart says - Safari ( for it's pure elegance as a 4X4 should be, something very personal) and the little devil in the mind says, the scorp engine is swell buddy, go for it.!!!

So much so, that last month i ended up booking a VTT 2.2 and then a week later called them to transfer the same to my cousin who needed the vehicle before me. And the quandary starts all over again for me.

Your decision process only help me fix a few more holes in this process.

Thank you, actually.
Well same here. Our dream car was a Safari(well still is), but sometimes practicality takes a front seat. I have tested 2 Safari 2.2's and driven the 3.0 DICOR extensively(own one in family), and the driving experience of scorpio whips the living daylights of the Safari.


Quote:
Originally Posted by benbsb29 View Post
I'm luvin it!!
Tanveer, good review and quite on the mark, i would say.

Would your travels include usually just the two of you, or would it involve a group of people? If the former, the Devil would be your ally, and if its the latter, maybe the KING (?!) should be your bet.
Just the two of us, and sometimes couple of friends. So middle seat is okay as long as its decent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai View Post
That's one heck of a TD tanveer. We went through similar emotions after TDing Safari 2.2 and GV in the same week.



For Tanveer 4WD is a must if he buying a 7L+ vehicle. That eliminates Innova.
Actually Samurai. 4WD is not a must. 4WD is a preference.
If we go for a heavy vehicle it "HAS TO BE" a 4WD. If a month from now the govt puts 50K more tax then it will be MJD vs Swift vs Getz D thingy.
Innova is very good, but its heavy and a 2WD. A light car like indica can be pushed out when you get stuck(been there done that), but if you get stuck with a buffalo, you are done for.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
Tanveer, that was one mother of a test drive. The best comparison till date and especially digestible since it came from someone who was a little biased towards the Safari! We will soon see the war being carried on to this thread!

I am glad to see that the Scorpio offers so much to the driver that it can change one's opinion about itself. Especially true since it changed the mindset of your wife, and we all know that its difficult to influence the decision of a female. Kudos to M&M.

I will be watching closely at the decision you finally make.
Little biased? I'm still biased for the safari. TD's can only change logical parts of your brain, not emotional ones right. Out there, there is someone who bought a San Storm.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooldude1988765 View Post
tsk1979 you should sit in the middle row of the scorpio on bumpy roads and i am pretty sure point 3 will change for you. It sure did change for me but we went the innova way.
Did that. In the older scorpio it was horrendous, but current one is pretty decent. Its mostly two of us for the drive, so middle row comfort should be acceptable, not best in class. Drivers comfort gets priority

Quote:
Originally Posted by akshay1234 View Post
samurai - i just thought it could be a nice honest comparison since there are quite a few threads on the forum between these 3 and whenever a question is asked people are always biased towards the car they own.
Well my requirements can't be met by innova. Firstly its 2 of us, so if we go for something big and huge(like safari) it has to appeal to our emotions. No offence, but Innova looks as bad as the scorpio.
Moreover its a heavy 2WD.


Now comes to the final question, which will be my next car.
Well that depends on a lot of factors apart from the TD.
In a perfect world on 10 July M&M will launch the Scorpio 4x4 at same price as safari EX 4x4 with alloy wheels(the safari EX has them in 4x4) and ABS(bonus).
On 11th July I would walk into Mahindra showroom and book the vehicle.

But the world is not perfect. So welcome to the real world.
We both liked the scorpio, but if there is no 4x4 by July end, we have no choice. I cannot take the risk of a heavy 4x2. If you get stuck in much with a heavy 4x2(faced that), you more often than not need a towing vehicle or a crane. In the Indica 3 people can literally push and coax it out.

Next comes the price. The Safari EX 4x4 has alloy wheels. They cost same as ABS in scorpio 4x4.
So ideally I would love to have the scorpio 4x4 priced same as Safari EX4x4.
Atmost 20K more. But if its more then Safari has good chance of being a purchase decision.

Third comes my budget. When I started looking at 2.2 in Feb, it cost 9.10L in Ludhiana for 4x4 EX. Now its 10L. If in July where is more price rise(steel prices, taxes duties et
c.,) both of them will price themselves out of my budget, unless stock market booms. So that would mean a battle of the diesels sedan's/hatches.
dZire is a strong contender, so is to be launched Fiats(if they come by July)

Last edited by tsk1979 : 16th June 2008 at 12:22.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 12:57   #34
Senior - BHPian
 
jaysmokesleaves's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mostly Mumbai
Posts: 1,676
Thanked: 1,159 Times
Default

@tsk >> I think i followed a similar process while buying my safari.
The interior space and boot space and 4x4 were primary requirements. Like you said you cant push a buffalo on 2 wheels. At that time i was told 3 months wait on order for a scorpio so i didnt bother to even test it. Endy was out because it didnt offer anything spectacular and for the price i could tour the whole of india on road with a safari or a scorpio with plush hotel stay included.
Lastly i was down to time which dictated my purchase in the first place. I could not wait 3 months because for most of us the buying process starts when we think of buying.. and by the time we actually buy it can be anything from 3-9 months. In my case I was 'thinking' of buying for 6 months, so when I go to put my money down, Id like to drive out within a week. Anybody offering a 3 month waiting was out from the word go. So there I have a safari in my stable.
And in all fairness to the scorpio and the safari.. to me there really Isnt much difference between the two. Because I know for a fact that if you were to beat the living daylights out of both( i mean on road abuse) then both would die equally hard(the chassis on both are well built to last the distance).

Honestly, IMO for the suv enthusiast wanting a 4x4, there really arent any options in India. Its 3 classes of 4x4 suvs you can buy.
1= safari / scorpio.
2= Old pajero/endeavour
3= prado/montero.
and then super premium if uve got cash to burn.
And in category 1 the choice isnt very difficult either. Pick any - they are almost as bad as each other in some respect or the other.
jaysmokesleaves is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 13:27   #35
adc
Senior - BHPian
 
adc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,346
Thanked: 2,100 Times
Default

When I had the Safari LX 2.2, I had done test drives of Mahindra Bolero to Scorpio 2.6 [2.2 not available at that time] to Safari 3.0 to Safari 2.2. Though definitely did not like the Scorpio's looks [very boxy and too common looks] I was willing to look over all shortcomings in any vehicle as long it had
Good and Reliable Engine [as for highway travel and in remote places].
Good Handling and Stablity at highway speeds [highway speed confidence at 100-140 kph range]
Good Comfort. [Long travel times [8-12 hours non-stop] should not induce fatigue]

Also did an extensive 80 km TD of a 2.2 Scorpio last week as the 2.2 battle is really on and wanted to see what I am missing out in the 2.2 Safari.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
To those trying to make sense out of this whole comparison, here's my views in a nutshell
1. Looks : Safari obviously
DEfinitely agree on this front, a stately design, miles ahead of the boxy look, whats an SUV without a spare tyre on the tailgate.

Quote:
2. Handling/Performance etc., : Scorpio
No I dont agree to this. At from the 110 kph, for the 2.6 there is a perceptible difference in handling. Has that changed in the 2.2 that much to come to the Safari level? Yeas almost but not to that point - one still has those tentative feelings of instablity. The safari is rock solid at those speeds and there is no steering play. The sweeping turns at high speeds are also much improved than that from the older Safari 3.0.

Quote:
Our worst fears have come true, our deity has failed us. Its crude, its agricultural, and as you floor the accelerator in 5th gear at 70kmph, it makes weird noises. Ditto for 80. It does not like flooring at 2200rpm in 3,4,5 gears. And otherwise also there is a distinct lag before it pulls like a locomotive.
Definitely the 2.2 Scorpio is smoother and it sure sounds refined than 2.2 Safari - and thats a fact. The dead stop starts are much responsive than the 2.2 and Safari 2.2 catches it up after a good 2 secs gap - and then as you said it is a loco after that.

The 5th gear in Safari is from around 85-90 onwards for a new 2.2 and having around 10k now it is takes up smoothly from around 80 ownwards. The best revelation for the 2.2 safari is the 3rd gear. At 10k km, the gears have settled nicely. The 3rd gear has a huge range now, from 20-60 kph.t

So, if we are just talking about engine now then it is Scorpio 2.2. But in stability [at highway speeds] it is Safari 2.2.

Quote:
3. Comfort : Tie(safari has a slight edge, but better ergonomics in scorpio)
Definitely Safari, you will appreciate the comfort once you do a continous journey above 6 hours. The jumpiness of Scorpio very reduced, but still there somewhat.

But the Scorpio is definitely ahead in fit and finish of interiors - one cannot disagree to that also.


Quote:
4. VFM : Safari. The Scorpio VLS is 40K more than EX. So if we discount the 25K more for ABS, its 15K, and you don't get a roof AC!
Definitely Safari, no one gives me a 2.2 engine and a SUV at 7.27 ex showroom Kolkata [prices have increased by 55k since then]. But then you are interested in a 4wd and rightly so. A SUV [2 tonne weight] without a 4wd is like a bull/beast without ___. Now for the Safari 2.2 you have LSD. LSD does help a little while making sharp turns and getting out of turns, though a viscous LSD that Safari uses is quite benign. If you can, extensively TD a 4wd Safari 2.2 - does the LSD make any difference


Quote:
5.NVH : The mHawk sings with a turbo whistle when you rev it, the VTT groans and krrrrrss and rattles and shakes
The whole thing shakes if you do sudden lane change maneuver.
Scorpio 2.2 scores on this front as it is silent over the complete range of rpm. It is much refined than the 2.2 Safari.
The Safari has that grunt/groans in that mid range and then it becomes smooth. It does not shake or rattle or krrrrs[??] whether you go straight or do lane change. I myself did took out a miracle save of a cyclist, doing both a standing on the brake thing and simultaneously swerving with a mm difference between him and my front bumper.

Thus in summary for me, for refinement and interiors Scorpio 2.2 and for everything else it is Safari 2.2 - The engine is becoming refined as the kms log in but definitely it will never be the same refined as that of the Scorpio 2.2. The slight difference will always be there.

Now the big question RELIABILITY - Till now, the Safari 2.2 LX 2wd has not let me down. But for me it is too early to say. TATA Engines per se are always reliable but for Safari the other things used to fail. Now with the 2.2 may be they have been sincere - the whole fortune of their SUV project depended upon the 2.2 engine and how they put the other things together. They must have stopped making the first customers test mules.
After all I have a SAfari 2.2 LX from the very first batch and till now ZERO problems.


Quote:
In a perfect world on 10 July M&M will launch the Scorpio 4x4 at same price as safari EX 4x4 with alloy wheels(the safari EX has them in 4x4) and ABS(bonus).
On 11th July I would walk into Mahindra showroom and book the vehicle.
Agree on that. If Scorpio 4wd with ABS is as same as or even 20-30k costlier than Safari EX 4wd - definitely the Scorpio.
adc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 13:46   #36
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 3,083
Thanked: 252 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
Honestly, IMO for the suv enthusiast wanting a 4x4, there really arent any options in India. Its 3 classes of 4x4 suvs you can buy.
1= safari / scorpio.
2= Old pajero/endeavour
3= prado/montero.
and then super premium if uve got cash to burn.
And in category 1 the choice isnt very difficult either. Pick any - they are almost as bad as each other in some respect or the other.
LOL, Jay! What leaves did you smoke today!!?
What clear insight!

Moderator's note: Only 2 smilies per post allowed.

Last edited by theMAG : 16th June 2008 at 14:00.
anupmathur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 13:55   #37
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dharwad
Posts: 23
Thanked: 8 Times
Default

I owned a scorpio 2.6 Turbo for 5 year and only recently brought Safari 2.2 Dicor VTT after comparing it with M Hawk.I have only the following points to say.
1.Engine:M Hawk is 20 per cent better than Safari 2.2 VTT in terms of refinement and engine noice.Definitely 2.2 VTT engine is not agricultural it is also very much refined and co-developed with Austrian company(M Hawk too)but there are few minor issues like Krr noice etc.Overall,the fuel efficiency of the two engines are same,pulling power are also similar.
2.Rest of the things like handling,suspension,styling,interior space and image-The safari 2.2 VTT scores over the M Hawk.
3.On rough roads the Safari scores and for city driving the scorpio scores.
manohar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 13:58   #38
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,638 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaysmokesleaves View Post
@tsk >> I think i followed a similar process while buying my safari.
The interior space and boot space and 4x4 were primary requirements. Like you said you cant push a buffalo on 2 wheels. At that time i was told 3 months wait on order for a scorpio so i didnt bother to even test it. Endy was out because it didnt offer anything spectacular and for the price i could tour the whole of india on road with a safari or a scorpio with plush hotel stay included.
Lastly i was down to time which dictated my purchase in the first place. I could not wait 3 months because for most of us the buying process starts when we think of buying.. and by the time we actually buy it can be anything from 3-9 months. In my case I was 'thinking' of buying for 6 months, so when I go to put my money down, Id like to drive out within a week. Anybody offering a 3 month waiting was out from the word go. So there I have a safari in my stable.
And in all fairness to the scorpio and the safari.. to me there really Isnt much difference between the two. Because I know for a fact that if you were to beat the living daylights out of both( i mean on road abuse) then both would die equally hard(the chassis on both are well built to last the distance).

Honestly, IMO for the suv enthusiast wanting a 4x4, there really arent any options in India. Its 3 classes of 4x4 suvs you can buy.
1= safari / scorpio.
2= Old pajero/endeavour
3= prado/montero.
and then super premium if uve got cash to burn.
And in category 1 the choice isnt very difficult either. Pick any - they are almost as bad as each other in some respect or the other.
If Mahindra ways no 4x4 for 3 months, well then thats out of reckoning.
Buy I see no reason why M&M would turn away such an important niche segment? Maybe cause 4x4 lovers buy Bolero's?

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
No I dont agree to this. At from the 110 kph, for the 2.6 there is a perceptible difference in handling. Has that changed in the 2.2 that much to come to the Safari level? Yeas almost but not to that point - one still has those tentative feelings of instablity. The safari is rock solid at those speeds and there is no steering play. The sweeping turns at high speeds are also much improved than that from the older Safari 3.0.
I have slammed the brakes hard at 90kmph in 4 vehicles
Safari LX 3.0
Safari EX 2.2
Safari VX 2.2(ABS)
Scorpio VLS 2,2(ABS)
ABS does make a difference, and I don't know whats the reason, the VX braking is miles ahead of EX braking. Even for the Scorpio the ABS system has improved things. The 3.0 with older booster was horrendous. Then they did a retro which improved things, but a factory fit is a factory fit.

Quote:
Definitely the 2.2 Scorpio is smoother and it sure sounds refined than 2.2 Safari - and thats a fact. The dead stop starts are much responsive than the 2.2 and Safari 2.2 catches it up after a good 2 secs gap - and then as you said it is a loco after that.
This behavior is irritating in traffic. esp in Noida Delhi.
Quote:
The 5th gear in Safari is from around 85-90 onwards for a new 2.2 and having around 10k now it is takes up smoothly from around 80 ownwards. The best revelation for the 2.2 safari is the 3rd gear. At 10k km, the gears have settled nicely. The 3rd gear has a huge range now, from 20-60 kph.t
Normal cruising speed on our highways is 80kmph to 120kmph depending upon type of road. Many times you slow down to 60. In most cars and SUVs you can stay in 5th gear all the way from 60 to the top whack. If I need to do my 70kmph cruising in 4th gear because 5th gear makes the engine groan like crazy, then something is wrong with the vehicle. I faced this in two different vehicles, so can't be a one off.

Quote:
So, if we are just talking about engine now then it is Scorpio 2.2. But in stability [at highway speeds] it is Safari 2.2.
Agree here, but the difference is not much with the 2.2 . With 2.6 this was an issue

Quote:
Definitely Safari, you will appreciate the comfort once you do a continous journey above 6 hours. The jumpiness of Scorpio very reduced, but still there somewhat.

But the Scorpio is definitely ahead in fit and finish of interiors - one cannot disagree to that also.
When I sat in drivers seat, the room was same in both. My knees were close to steering wheel. But to change gears in safari I needed to stretch my arm quite a bit. My wife had more problem because she is shorter. If only the gear lever was a little back.
Apart from that both offer great ergonomics with good lumbar support.
Quote:
Definitely Safari, no one gives me a 2.2 engine and a SUV at 7.27 ex showroom Kolkata [prices have increased by 55k since then]. But then you are interested in a 4wd and rightly so. A SUV [2 tonne weight] without a 4wd is like a bull/beast without ___. Now for the Safari 2.2 you have LSD. LSD does help a little while making sharp turns and getting out of turns, though a viscous LSD that Safari uses is quite benign. If you can, extensively TD a 4wd Safari 2.2 - does the LSD make any difference
I have done extensive hill driving in all kinds of vehicles, none of which were LSD. I doubt I will miss LSD much(except when we get really stuck).
As for 4x4 TD, you can't get one because 4x4 is on order


Quote:
Scorpio 2.2 scores on this front as it is silent over the complete range of rpm. It is much refined than the 2.2 Safari.
The Safari has that grunt/groans in that mid range and then it becomes smooth. It does not shake or rattle or krrrrs[??] whether you go straight or do lane change. I myself did took out a miracle save of a cyclist, doing both a standing on the brake thing and simultaneously swerving with a mm difference between him and my front bumper.
The krrrr is engine vibration, not body. Tried violent lane changes and Scorpio felt more composed. I am not used to Safari nor the Scorpio since I drive the indica. Maybe if I get used to safari it will be same.

Quote:
Thus in summary for me, for refinement and interiors Scorpio 2.2 and for everything else it is Safari 2.2 - The engine is becoming refined as the kms log in but definitely it will never be the same refined as that of the Scorpio 2.2. The slight difference will always be there.

Now the big question RELIABILITY - Till now, the Safari 2.2 LX 2wd has not let me down. But for me it is too early to say. TATA Engines per se are always reliable but for Safari the other things used to fail. Now with the 2.2 may be they have been sincere - the whole fortune of their SUV project depended upon the 2.2 engine and how they put the other things together. They must have stopped making the first customers test mules.
After all I have a SAfari 2.2 LX from the very first batch and till now ZERO problems.

Agree on that. If Scorpio 4wd with ABS is as same as or even 20-30k costlier than Safari EX 4wd - definitely the Scorpio.
Agree with your summary, but my experience with Tata as per A.S.S has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I am willing to overlook that and live with minor niggles, but if somebody comes up with a more refined vehicle which is comfortable and nice, I would forgo the safari.
Now all that remains is the 4x4 launch date and waiting period and price for scorpio.
Who knows July may see a EX 4x4 booking, and I end up making Tata regional service incharge my pen friend.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 13:59   #39
Senior - BHPian
 
suman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 257 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Now for the Safari 2.2 you have LSD.
ADC, the LSD is present in the 3.0 litre 4x4 as well (and to the best of my knowledge, in the 2.0 litre TCIC 4x4 also)

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Thus in summary for me, for refinement and interiors Scorpio 2.2 and for everything else it is Safari 2.2 -
In all fairness, if you are comparing the Scorpio 2.2 interiors, then please compare with the Safari VX. Leather upholstery & wood-finish center console are a couple of areas where the Safari VX scores over the M Hawk. Do not compare a EX or LX interiors with that of the M Hawk, there will be a huge difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
ABS does make a difference, and I don't know whats the reason, the VX braking is miles ahead of EX braking.
Good to see someone agree with me; having driven both & owning the VX, I find the braking pretty good & not like the horror stories I hear about Safari brakes.

Last edited by suman : 16th June 2008 at 14:11.
suman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 14:10   #40
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAMMA BENGALURU
Posts: 5,613
Thanked: 2,457 Times
Default

Mods,

That was a nice personal view on your TD.

I agree every individual has different preferences.

You liked the Scorp, good, similarly my TD with the Scorp and Safari made me choose the Safari.

Its everyones personal choices. and each differ from the other.
PAVAN KADAM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 14:16   #41
Senior - BHPian
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Pune
Posts: 2,450
Thanked: 955 Times
Default

GV is a strong contender and it's 4x4 system is very competent.
Don't go by the fact that it's petrol - it gets factored in the price advantage it has over pajero.

IMHO, GV is THE entry level SUV in India.
Safari/Scorpio are just simply SUV styled familty carriers - their 4x4 systems are neither really advertised, nor professionally documented.

In fact it's sad that none of the Safari/Scorpio reviews on T-BHP talks about the genuine techincal description of their 4WD technologies.
anandpadhye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 14:32   #42
Distinguished - BHPian
 
condor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Speed-brkr City
Posts: 10,734
Thanked: 4,301 Times
Default

Quote:
anandpadhye : IMHO, GV is THE entry level SUV in India.
GV is not entry level. If you consider the GV, we would then have to start including CR-V, XTrail & Endy also.

The discussion here is abt SUV's around the 10L mark - specifcally Safari 2.2 vs Scorp 2.2
condor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 14:47   #43
adc
Senior - BHPian
 
adc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Kolkata
Posts: 1,346
Thanked: 2,100 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
ADC, the LSD is present in the 3.0 litre 4x4 as well (and to the best of my knowledge, in the 2.0 litre TCIC 4x4 also)
Yes, definitely in Safari 3.0 LSD is there and so also in the 2.0.

I was pointing out to the fact that Scorpio 4wd has no LSD.

Does the viscous LSD make a difference? May be but it is not a defining thing. Good if it is there, not missed much if it is not - this is google knowledge.

Quote:
In all fairness, if you are comparing the Scorpio 2.2 interiors, then please compare with the Safari VX. Leather upholstery & wood-finish center console are a couple of areas where the Safari VX scores over the M Hawk. Do not compare a EX or LX interiors with that of the M Hawk, there will be a huge difference.
Yes you are correct. I was comparing a EX/LX interior with that of MHawk.

Comparison will come out between a EX Safari and Mhawk Scorpio that is at the price of EX as and when it comes out


Quote:
Good to see someone agree with me; having driven both & owning the VX, I find the braking pretty good & not like the horror stories I hear about Safari brakes.
I never dispute the usefullness of ABS. It is a must for a heavy vehicle. And these companies will not give ABS across the board until and unless there comes out a govt rule.

Plus another grouse is the drum brakes for both at the rear. If no ABS, then at least disc brakes for rear too.


The disc brake size of Safari 2.2 is bigger than that of the 3.0. Safari VX for both 2.2 and 3.0 ABS comes with EBD.


Do not buy, if you have funds [I barely brought myself up to the LX price], a SUV without ABS. [in fact true for any vehicle]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Agree with your summary, but my experience with Tata as per A.S.S has left a bitter taste in my mouth. I am willing to overlook that and live with minor niggles, but if somebody comes up with a more refined vehicle which is comfortable and nice, I would forgo the safari.
A.S.S.: Talking about positives, they are improving much now, in the beginning they were clueless about this engine. With 2.2 being their engine all through [both in Safari and Sumo], they are learing it more and more. Other than that A.S.S. is a personal experience - one bad one and past opinions can get nasty.

Refined - yes. Scorpio 2.2 is more refined than the 2.2 Safari.

Comfortable - I doubt that you can improve above the Safari comfort level.

Taking just the front seat beside the driver's [not the driver's] the huge leg space, the stretching that you can do - is phenomenal.

You had problem with gear reach so not commenting on that. Sliding the the front seats did not help?
adc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 14:55   #44
Team-BHP Support
 
tsk1979's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 22,953
Thanked: 15,638 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by adc View Post
Yes, definitely in Safari 3.0 LSD is there and so also in the 2.0.

I was pointing out to the fact that Scorpio 4wd has no LSD.

Does the viscous LSD make a difference? May be but it is not a defining thing. Good if it is there, not missed much if it is not - this is google knowledge.
LSD is preferable, but not a deal breaker for an occasional off roader. Of course if I was going to get into more intense off roading LSD is better.
Quote:
Yes you are correct. I was comparing a EX/LX interior with that of MHawk.
Comparison will come out between a EX Safari and Mhawk Scorpio that is at the price of EX as and when it comes out
VLS has ABS and costs 40K more than the EX. Thats why I compared to EX.
Anyways for me VX is not very good. Reason? the seats are thick leather, so I sit higher. Even with seat fully down, in the VX I am uncomfortably close to the steering wheel. The EX is better, with more space between steering wheel and me. But that depends on person to person
As for dash quality, the VX and EX are similar, and VLS/VLX of scorpio have better fit and finish.

Quote:
I never dispute the usefullness of ABS. It is a must for a heavy vehicle. And these companies will not give ABS across the board until and unless there comes out a govt rule.
Plus another grouse is the drum brakes for both at the rear. If no ABS, then at least disc brakes for rear too.


The disc brake size of Safari 2.2 is bigger than that of the 3.0. Safari VX for both 2.2 and 3.0 ABS comes with EBD.


Do not buy, if you have funds [I barely brought myself up to the LX price], a SUV without ABS. [in fact true for any vehicle]

A.S.S.: Talking about positives, they are improving much now, in the beginning they were clueless about this engine. With 2.2 being their engine all through [both in Safari and Sumo], they are learing it more and more. Other than that A.S.S. is a personal experience - one bad one and past opinions can get nasty.

Refined - yes. Scorpio 2.2 is more refined than the 2.2 Safari.

Comfortable - I doubt that you can improve above the Safari comfort level.

Taking just the front seat beside the driver's [not the driver's] the huge leg space, the stretching that you can do - is phenomenal.

You had problem with gear reach so not commenting on that. Sliding the the front seats did not help?

Shotgun seat comfort is definitely a big plus point in the Scorpio, and yes the safari comfort level for long drives is clearly better(more rooms), but for our frame size, scorpio fits the bill(even though we like safari more).

Lets see what kind of pricing an availability VLS 4x4 comes up with. Mahindra may even launch 4x4 only in VLX, so that would mean scorpio goes out of the window.
tsk1979 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16th June 2008, 15:16   #45
Senior - BHPian
 
suman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Gurgaon
Posts: 4,589
Thanked: 257 Times
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
As for dash quality, the VX and EX are similar, and VLS/VLX of scorpio have better fit and finish.
Hmmmm, don't agree with you on that, there is a sizeable & visible difference, at least on the 3.0 litre & I thought the 2.2 was better with the wood finish etc
suman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Scorpio 2.2 Mhawk in exchange for Scorpio 2.6? coolboy007 SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 31 28th September 2011 12:27
2011 i10 Asta A/T - its Korean, its new, its fast, its red, and its coming. nirupesh Test-Drives & Initial Ownership Reports 1 8th January 2011 10:45
Owner feedback requested - Tata Safari 2.2 DICOR VTT and M&M Scorpio mHawk cool_dube SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 6 14th October 2009 10:58
Old Scorpio Mhawk>>> New Scorpio Mhawk rishin.kalra SUVs, MUVs & 4x4s 9 21st July 2009 15:51


All times are GMT +5.5. The time now is 10:24.

Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Team-BHP.com
Proudly powered by E2E Networks