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Old 17th June 2008, 14:13   #61
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Originally Posted by kuttapan View Post
a Scorpio 2.2 tried to act smart with my swift, he didn't like the fact that a puny hatchback overtook him. Showed him a clean pair of heels..
Too many misguided fools buy an SUV and try to outdo hot-hatches or sedans on tarmac!
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Old 17th June 2008, 14:28   #62
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Great write up. I had a similar opinion when I test drove both the 2.2s. The company that has been making agricultural vehicles is able to create a more refined one than the other.

But they need to change the exterior look (like something simpler, they can borrow from so many SUVs world over and call it inspiration) and have a good amount of interior space.
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Old 17th June 2008, 14:58   #63
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Awesome write up Tanveer. A great comparo, its really difficult to decide when your heart & mind do not agree on same car(I am also going through that currently).

All the best for the hunt.
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Old 17th June 2008, 15:00   #64
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that was a nice review
"Ek teer mein 2 nishaan"

after your review I am more inclined to go for a scorpio main factor being reliabile engine and I will happily sacrifice the comfort and space of Safari.

This time i'll let the head rule over the heart.

both engines tuned by AVL and so much difference in relaibility

hey techno@ thats the same situation i am in heart says safari, mind says scorpio.
and with my present ride being near to maintenace free i would love to have an engine which never "DIES"
btw who wants to frequent the A>S>S.

Last edited by Jr Godzilla : 17th June 2008 at 15:03.
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Old 17th June 2008, 15:12   #65
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How could you decide on the basis of Tanveer's review that the Scorpio had a reliable engine as compared to that of the Safari? Did Tanveer test the reliability of the engine?

I am literally fed up with the comparisons between the Scorpio and Safari and it makes no difference to me what someone thinks of either of the vehicles! I know what my vehicle will be and I am happy with my decision.

As far as the reliability of the Safari's engine is concerned, I will let Steer do the honors. I rest my case and take leave from this discussion.

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Originally Posted by Jr Godzilla View Post
that was a nice review
"Ek teer mein 2 nishaan"

after your review I am more inclined to go for a scorpio main factor being reliabile engine and I will happily sacrifice the comfort and space of Safari.

This time i'll let the head rule over the heart.

both engines tuned by AVL and so much difference in relaibility

hey techno@ thats the same situation i am in heart says safari, mind says scorpio.
and with my present ride being near to maintenace free i would love to have an engine which never "DIES"
btw who wants to frequent the A>S>S.
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Old 17th June 2008, 15:15   #66
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Why getting so frustrated if someone thinks Scorpio is better?
Both are different vehicles, both have their +/-'s.
I own a scorpio and love safari as well.
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Old 17th June 2008, 15:36   #67
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Originally Posted by SumitBahl View Post
Why getting so frustrated if someone thinks Scorpio is better?
Both are different vehicles, both have their +/-'s.
I own a scorpio and love safari as well.
I had to respond to this! When did I say I am frustrated if someone says that the Scorpio is better. I don't have a problem if someone says that. I am willing to say that the Scorpio is the best if that makes someone feel good! All I am saying is that why try to make someone believe that a particular vehicle is better than the other? A person has made a point and thats it, let the reader judge for himself!
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Old 17th June 2008, 15:39   #68
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hey guys.
i guess with this review mod has touched the right spot in every indian SUV's lovers heart, the problem is we all love both the SUV's for various reasons.
although after driving both the SUV's , specifically the beast on higher side. i will say ..
Go for safari 2.2 if you have a driver to take you around. so you can leave the driver with your broken down safari and hitch hike your way back to civilization. It can happen anytime..
and if you love to be master of your own ride with a dedly sting then stick to scorpion. she will not fail you, atleast give you enough warning..
with safari you never know, safari is notorious for breaking down or refusing to budge for no reason apparently. ( when i bought my beast, i posted some rules in my safari like no bad words, no shouting, don't eat drink or smoke.. you see you never know what upsets a safari she being of better sex) but alas it never helped. this tip had came from another car owner in our family, my uncle. i have traveled lot many miles in his old 3.0 l safari happily relaxing in last seat.
still. despite of all this and the lemon and chilli combo dangling below the engine bay..
my brand new 2.2 safari dumped me during my first visit to goa. we were coming up the amboli ghat from sawantwadi to amboli ( on way to mumbai via kolhapur) after managing a steep incline she just puttered down with no apperent warning or reason. right in the middle of the road. finally with help of a bus full of people we managed to put her to side.
as i said i was lucky to have driver so we left it with him and managed to hitch hike back to sawantwadi and returned to mumbai by next available train.
i was later told by service center at sawantwadi that some sensor had stopped functioning. never had chance to understand the problem clearly but since that day i was always afraid to drive the beast till i sold it.

all the while my 2.6 scorpio is serving me most faithfully. every once a while i face problem with window switch or wiper or music system but atleast she keeps muching road like a faithful partner that she is...

hope you guys gain from my experience.
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Old 17th June 2008, 15:52   #69
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Originally Posted by zipzapzoom View Post
hope you guys gain from my experience.
Hey Zipzapzoom, no offense meant but I get the strong smell of something fishy....is it the air on the way back from Goa I wonder

By the way, some guys are born lucky I guess - a faithful Scorpio 2.6 & yet you still felt the need to buy a Safari 2.2 & then sell it off again because a sensor packed up.

ROTFLMAO.....some people have all the luck, and the money
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Old 17th June 2008, 15:53   #70
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This is the best answer which I could agree with, by Steer (Safari VTT or Scorpio Hawk- battle of the 2.2s).

Quote:
A person who wants to use the vehicle primarily in City would probably be happy enough with an mHawk as it is slightly better refined and the clutch is easier on the calf muscles, plus it has a better turning circle and you dont normally use the middle row for your daily office drive. However, a person with mixed use would be better off in a Safari and a person doing long distance high-speed (in Indian conditions) travel would definitely be better off with the Safari.
Make your decision based on it.

TD's give you a first impression which can be good or bad due to various reasons. But remember you have to live with your decision for year's together.

Rest you can keep discussing pro's and con's, to each on his own.

Last edited by dadu : 17th June 2008 at 15:56.
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Old 17th June 2008, 16:10   #71
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Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
I had to respond to this! When did I say I am frustrated if someone says that the Scorpio is better. I don't have a problem if someone says that. I am willing to say that the Scorpio is the best if that makes someone feel good! All I am saying is that why try to make someone believe that a particular vehicle is better than the other? A person has made a point and thats it, let the reader judge for himself!
Sorry if I offended you!!

From your post I thought you were getting frustrated.
Whats your full name BTW. Its very much similar to mine.
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Old 17th June 2008, 16:12   #72
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Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
I am literally fed up with the comparisons between the Scorpio and Safari and it makes no difference to me what someone thinks of either of the vehicles! I know what my vehicle will be and I am happy with my decision.
Sumit bhai, by now arent we all fed up by the innumerous debates?
Nobody is taking away anything from your decision-to-be, and when you put up a thread on the same, rest assured there would be many who would follow it, just to know how your experieces with the same is.
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Old 17th June 2008, 17:05   #73
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Hey suman
Even i get the smell of something.. but i guess it's of something burning this time... sorry ...just could not avoid it...no offense.
i guess my review confused you. i keep traveling between mumbai and goa for business. i have my faithful scorpion in goa registered on company registartion, which i use whenever in goa. In mumbai i have my personal baleno and wanted a SUV for office needs ( need to go on bad roads often). so decided for 2.2 safari based on all feed back on team BHP and not to discount efforts of my uncle who literally dragged me to tata showroom to book my safari. we have long experience of tata vehicles, i have owned sierra in past it was great SUV, read that as best middle seat comfort ever. and then we do have this 3.0L in family.

After i faced this problem with brand new car i was frustrated and i lost faith in the car. Having used tata i was always aware of all the small problems cropping up. but never something from a brand new car that too suddenely out of blue. i was afraid to take her anywhere outside mumbai. that really limiting my movment. I felt like being cheated and i was discussing this problem with a friend who is in business of buying and selling of used car in thane. By sheer luck he had a customer from mumbra with typical requirment of safari 2.2 on immediate basis. by typical read more black less white so closed the deal immediately.
thank god i did not sell my baleno because my wife won't allow me to.
Now i am looking out for a MUV or SUV...
MUV i said because this friend of mine is advocating INNOVA very very strongly.
the other SUV's that i looked at are ford endevour but it is too bulky and underpowered for my taste.
hyndai tuscan i guess its outdated.
honda CRV in a different class but also it is petrol.. with poor FE.
same with maruti GV.
I heard that maruti is on their way to plunk a brand new 2.0Lt fiat diesel powerplant in GV, its goig to be out end of this year. so will wait or will go for INNOVA.
but will surely miss the SUV feel and the best driving position of Safari commanding the road...
anymore doubts you are welcome.... and thanks for comments
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Old 17th June 2008, 19:48   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
How could you decide on the basis of Tanveer's review that the Scorpio had a reliable engine as compared to that of the Safari? Did Tanveer test the reliability of the engine?

I am literally fed up with the comparisons between the Scorpio and Safari and it makes no difference to me what someone thinks of either of the vehicles! I know what my vehicle will be and I am happy with my decision.

As far as the reliability of the Safari's engine is concerned, I will let Steer do the honors. I rest my case and take leave from this discussion.
my friend i have been reading the different threads in either technical section, test drive, first drive and many trip stories and I have noted the numerous visits to the A S S for so many engine related problems of Safari.

Now if i have to compare this THAT IS engine reliability i have read and noted not just a few but almost 90% of scorpio owners on this forum praising the scorpio engine reliability.

And with regard to Steer's Safari 3.0 I have read the numerous problems he has had to face with his machine. He himself as given his ownership report. And i also appreciate his patience in getting the problems solved with new and original replacements wherever and whenever required.

but I am not a person of so much patience to keep going to A S S for small engine related issues, i would rather have a vehicle with broken upholstery, broken handles, even a lousy ICE but what i would need most of all is a reliable engine.

hope that clears up your concern for aggravation.

Last edited by Jr Godzilla : 17th June 2008 at 19:57.
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Old 17th June 2008, 20:59   #75
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Originally Posted by aaggoswami View Post
An honest write up that just made more confusions for you. We were in almost similar situation when we finally bought Baleno. We thought of Scorpio and were ready to stretch budget. Dad rejected it for lack of refinment and somewhat crapmed interiors. NHC, Optra 1.6, Corsa, Innova, Tavera were all one the list and I was inclined on Swift.
Yes, the more the choices, the more the confusion. Know what? We are scared to go to Toyota and drive the innova(though I clearly don't want a heavy TD). Sometimes Ford tempts me with the Fusion, but the more cars we drive the more confused we are

Quote:
Originally Posted by SumitB View Post
How could you decide on the basis of Tanveer's review that the Scorpio had a reliable engine as compared to that of the Safari? Did Tanveer test the reliability of the engine?

I am literally fed up with the comparisons between the Scorpio and Safari and it makes no difference to me what someone thinks of either of the vehicles! I know what my vehicle will be and I am happy with my decision.

As far as the reliability of the Safari's engine is concerned, I will let Steer do the honors. I rest my case and take leave from this discussion.
Yup, I could never test reliability. Infact you can't test that in a TD. But with the 3.0 in our family, its not the best in reliability. Within the first 5000kms some sensor packed up and my uncle was stranded on the highway. Till about 25000kms the car used to give starting trouble occasionally, some earth problem, which was rectified after 10-15 visits to the workshop.
My cousins 2.6 Scorpio packed up timing belt at 30K kms.
So in the end only an owner can tell about reliability. For that reason we have TBHP reviews.
As for my personal opinoin, our family has owned 5-6 Tata cars from 2000 onwards. Why? Because we need a 3L hatch or a 5L sedan to go to the farm where roads do not exist. Nothing else exists which can do that(we want diesel). Based on that, these cars have given more trouble as compared to the santro's etc., Surprise of surprise, inspite of suspension abuse, the problems were never suspension related.
Even my car, has given numerous issues. I was stranded on a dark lonely highway due to a failed alternator(which had been recently repaired by TASS).
I was stranded at a crossing when alternator belt snapped(new Tata belt fitted at TASS).
Last night the gearbox assembly broke.
Such things put in a fear in you. I will never be comfortable taking the indica now to remote places. There will be a fear deep down, wondering what will break.
Similar for a brand new safari, though heart says safari, in the mind there is a fear of having the safari as the only car.
If we had a second car like a santro etc., in good condition, safari would have been a no brainer, but since we don't, its scary to think that your only vehicle is a Tata.
But thats my opinion. There are people here who have never had a breakdown in the entire life of their Tata vehicle. They will not share my fears. So as individuals we are different. I respect their view, and I will not even try to convice them that Tata cars are unreliable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipzapzoom View Post
hey guys.
i guess with this review mod has touched the right spot in every indian SUV's lovers heart, the problem is we all love both the SUV's for various reasons.
although after driving both the SUV's , specifically the beast on higher side. i will say ..
Go for safari 2.2 if you have a driver to take you around. so you can leave the driver with your broken down safari and hitch hike your way back to civilization. It can happen anytime..
and if you love to be master of your own ride with a dedly sting then stick to scorpion. she will not fail you, atleast give you enough warning..
with safari you never know, safari is notorious for breaking down or refusing to budge for no reason apparently. ( when i bought my beast, i posted some rules in my safari like no bad words, no shouting, don't eat drink or smoke.. you see you never know what upsets a safari she being of better sex) but alas it never helped. this tip had came from another car owner in our family, my uncle. i have traveled lot many miles in his old 3.0 l safari happily relaxing in last seat.
still. despite of all this and the lemon and chilli combo dangling below the engine bay..
my brand new 2.2 safari dumped me during my first visit to goa. we were coming up the amboli ghat from sawantwadi to amboli ( on way to mumbai via kolhapur) after managing a steep incline she just puttered down with no apperent warning or reason. right in the middle of the road. finally with help of a bus full of people we managed to put her to side.
as i said i was lucky to have driver so we left it with him and managed to hitch hike back to sawantwadi and returned to mumbai by next available train.
i was later told by service center at sawantwadi that some sensor had stopped functioning. never had chance to understand the problem clearly but since that day i was always afraid to drive the beast till i sold it.

all the while my 2.6 scorpio is serving me most faithfully. every once a while i face problem with window switch or wiper or music system but atleast she keeps muching road like a faithful partner that she is...

hope you guys gain from my experience.
Same thing here buddy, when your car fails you in a remote place it puts a fear in you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suman View Post
Hey Zipzapzoom, no offense meant but I get the strong smell of something fishy....is it the air on the way back from Goa I wonder

By the way, some guys are born lucky I guess - a faithful Scorpio 2.6 & yet you still felt the need to buy a Safari 2.2 & then sell it off again because a sensor packed up.

ROTFLMAO.....some people have all the luck, and the money
Wow, thats interesting. If somebody is writing a positive review its true, but if somebody is writing a negative review that person is lying...?
Please come out of it. Not everybody can be expected to have a positive experience from a vehicle. Everybody is entitled to his/her view

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Godzilla View Post
my friend i have been reading the different threads in either technical section, test drive, first drive and many trip stories and I have noted the numerous visits to the A S S for so many engine related problems of Safari.

Now if i have to compare this THAT IS engine reliability i have read and noted not just a few but almost 90% of scorpio owners on this forum praising the scorpio engine reliability.

And with regard to Steer's Safari 3.0 I have read the numerous problems he has had to face with his machine. He himself as given his ownership report. And i also appreciate his patience in getting the problems solved with new and original replacements wherever and whenever required.

but I am not a person of so much patience to keep going to A S S for small engine related issues, i would rather have a vehicle with broken upholstery, broken handles, even a lousy ICE but what i would need most of all is a reliable engine.

hope that clears up your concern for aggravation.
A tata engine will never fail you, trust me. But everything else(sensors,alternators, power steering pumps, etc.,) can fail anytime.
When our indigo was brand new(few thousand kms on the clock and few months), the power steering hose fell away.
The Safari 3.0 got stranded due to some sensor problem.
And you are right, not everybody has a patience.
Also lot of people are very forgiving.
For example propellor shaft replacement at < 10K kms can be a minor niggle.
For some alternator failure or AC failure in a brand new vehicle is acceptable level of quality.
As individuals we are different.
Some people think anything less than six sigma is blasphemy, some thing that a few problems occasionaly is no big deal.

when I wrote this review, it was my POV.
I never intended to convert somebody else. If any of you is getting converted, please don't. After all its you who has to live with the vehicle. Who knows that you fall ill after seeing scorpio looks(well I almost did).
I am different from all of you, so my POV is going to be different. As of today, the safari does not fit the bill, and is looking less and less attractive.
Part of it is fear of having just one vehicle which is a Tata, and part of it is fear of driving in narrow city bylanes.
When you have 2 cars one small, one huge, you are comfortable, that for that small in city drive you can take out the small car.

If I had a reliable small car in my garage, getting a Safari would have been much easier, but now, its tough.
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