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Old 18th June 2008, 11:23   #91
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This made me laugh... I don't want to get in the debate of the pros & cons of Safari vs Scorpio as I own both and am probably one of the few first owners of the Safari when TATAs came out with it in the market. My safari is of 1998 vintage with the earliest TCIC engine and a 4x4. Scorpio was not even heard off.

Apart from the time tested Amby that I once owned, this Safari was the only one that was brought new as soon as it was released..! Otherwise, I normally go in for a car, after I've decided on its make & model, after a year of its release in the market. Thus, I save on experimenting, stress arising out of various niggling problems that at most times the ASC can't rectify, and other miscellaneous problems. The company and the ASCs get the hang of the new car after a year and most of the refinements that needs to be done would have been done.

Having said that, I've to take with a pinch of chilli and not salt, when you say and I quote - " with safari you never know, safari is notorious for breaking down or refusing to budge for no reason apparently ". In all my these years of owning the Safari, it never happened with me. I've crunched a lot of miles with it to various places and longest being the Gurgaon - Mumbai - Khandala & back in 2006. Except for a flat in Ankleshwar, not a single problem. There are many other friends of mine who have bought a Safari (all pre DICORS) after seeing mine and till date (I'm being honest and not lying) have not complained of being stranded in the middle of nowhere because they swore at a moron on the road and it hurt the Safari's sensibilities and it stalled and refused to budge.

True, I've heard horror stories about the newer generation Safaris due to the electronics and like you mentioned it yourself. But that doesn't reflect on the reliability and sturdiness of the engine. Apart from Leyland, it is the maximum number of TATA trucks that you see on the highways that lug goods from one corner of the country to another. And let me remind you that the broken down trucks on the roadside that you see are not due to engine failure but the breaking of axle or suspension because of the callousness of the owner/driver by overloading.

Now coming to Scorpio, with all its bells & whistles in the CRDe types, a bad fuel brings out the engine check light on and engine refuses to fire. What would you do in such a situation in the middle of a Bhind - Morena Road when you would have filled adulterated fuel?

Both the vehicles are excellant and have different features and belong to stables that have reputation for reliability and stability. While expressing impartial views about them is welcome, so that a prospective buyer has a fair view about and knows what to expect, rooting for one and trashing another should not be done here on this public forum.

I'm sorry if my views have offended anyone. That has not been my intent...

Quote:
Originally Posted by zipzapzoom View Post
hey guys.

with safari you never know, safari is notorious for breaking down or refusing to budge for no reason apparently. ( when i bought my beast, i posted some rules in my safari like no bad words, no shouting, don't eat drink or smoke.. you see you never know what upsets a safari she being of better sex) but alas it never helped. this tip had came from another car owner in our family, my uncle. i have traveled lot many miles in his old 3.0 l safari happily relaxing in last seat.
still. despite of all this and the lemon and chilli combo dangling below the engine bay..
my brand new 2.2 safari dumped me during my first visit to goa. we were coming up the amboli ghat from sawantwadi to amboli ( on way to mumbai via kolhapur) after managing a steep incline she just puttered down with no apperent warning or reason. right in the middle of the road. finally with help of a bus full of people we managed to put her to side.
as i said i was lucky to have driver so we left it with him and managed to hitch hike back to sawantwadi and returned to mumbai by next available train.
i was later told by service center at sawantwadi that some sensor had stopped functioning. never had chance to understand the problem clearly but since that day i was always afraid to drive the beast till i sold it.

all the while my 2.6 scorpio is serving me most faithfully. every once a while i face problem with window switch or wiper or music system but atleast she keeps muching road like a faithful partner that she is...

hope you guys gain from my experience.
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Old 18th June 2008, 11:27   #92
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Wow, thats interesting. If somebody is writing a positive review its true, but if somebody is writing a negative review that person is lying...?
Please come out of it. Not everybody can be expected to have a positive experience from a vehicle. Everybody is entitled to his/her view
Tanveer, there is nothing to "come out of"; perhaps you didn't understand my post, I'm sorry if the English was too archaic to be understood.

What I found "fishy" was that his profile said he has a Baleno & Hyundai i10, yet he spoke about a Scorpio that he has owned for a number of years & then mentioned having bought and sold a Safari 2.2 because of a sensor incident. He has now edited his profile & added on the Scorpio (post my comments), apart from having now clarified the scenario here (thanks for your explanation Z) -
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...tml#post869366

And it makes absolute sense now. It has nothing to do about a person lying or otherwise. My own ownership review is there for all to see so what's with a negative or positive review?

Last edited by suman : 18th June 2008 at 11:32.
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Old 18th June 2008, 11:36   #93
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Originally Posted by headers View Post
good review tsk..how is the high speed handling..anyone?

What I'm asking is, is it ok to keep pushing the scorpio at 140 all along? all day?
I have tried 140 only thrice when I saw clear roads. I wont drive it at 140 unless I am sure its a clear road as at those speeds emergency braking issue may scare you.

Once during a Bangy TBHP meet, I was on board Goddy's Dicor. We had to do a emergency braking as we didnt see a hump. We were crusing after overtaking a Lancer at 120. Since we were doing high speeds we knew braking wont help much and hence we just slowed it down a bit. I was sure that we were gonna fly for couple of seconds but all I felt was a small bump. We didnt slow down for the next few humps and was wondering what would have happened to the Lancer which was following us at similar speeds.

Last week I drove down 150kms which had very good straight lines, awesome curves which would have made a sedan happy and metal laid roads which were being readied for taring. I just took 2.15min for the journey. Safari was very stable all through the journey. Max I did was 120kmph on straight lines, a limit I have set for myself for now. I never saw the temp guage raise at all which means it can cruise even when the driver is on sport mode.

edit: Amits and GD's post regarding their experience should be useful.

Last edited by jkdas : 18th June 2008 at 11:39.
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Old 18th June 2008, 11:39   #94
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Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
the most annoying thing i have heard whenever i have complained about anything to TASS is "its there in every car/its common/its usual"... common, !
What have you had to fix in TASS? AFAIK you own a Mahindra vehicle. How come you speak so authoritatively on TASS?

3+ years of experiences with TASS in Cochin (RF MOtors) and Bangalore (Prerna) have NEVER resulted in this kind of experience for me.

I will not claim that they are angels - they've broken stuff sometimes (and have always replaced it free of cost), left pawmarks on my paint and stuff like that, but have never had a cause to make a sweeping statement like the one above.

They have been attentive, proactive and even SCARED - the follow-up calls from Tata Motors drives fear into the TASS, and they always make sure before you leave that you have NO complaints left

As of now these are the sort of questions from Tata Motors Customer Service (telephonic, from Pune) that follow a service visit to your local TASS - within 3 days of the visit:
1. Were you greeted on arrival and shown to a proper parking space, was your mileage recorded by the security guard?
2. Were you attended by a Service Advisor within 10 minutes?
3. Did the service advisor ASK you about any issues you may have with the car other than the regular service requirements?
4. Were those issues recorded to your satisfaction on the Job Card?
5. Did you require replacement of any parts? If yes, were these covered by warranty?
6. If the parts were not covered by warranty, were you informed about the cost before they were replaced?
7. Did you get an SMS from Tata Motors when your work was completed and was this followed up with a call from your service advisor (applicable only if you had extra work, not just regular service)?
8. Was all the work done to your satisfaction?
9. Was the extra work carried out and any replacement done explained to you and are you satisfied with the explanation?
10. Was the car washed and clean when it was handed over to you? Did it contain everything that it did when it went in for service?
11. Did the Service Agent thank you after the service visit and inform you when the next service is due? Did the Security Guard check the mileage, take your gate pass and were they courteous?
12. On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate THIS visit to your TASS?
I think this whole issue of Tata reliability and service woes - including the overall rating on the TBHP homepage - are blown completely out of proportion, based mostly on somebody's uncle's ownership experience. True, there are instances where someone has had issues, but that is true with EVERY other vehicle here from Hyundai to Toyota to Ford to Mahindra.

If you choose to believe in them, stay away from a Tata vehicle. I was served all these horror stories when I bought my Dicor, mostly from people who have never owned a Tata before.

All this talk about fear and apprehension around the Safari is, as gd rightly pointed out, hogwash. This is my only vehicle when I am in country, and I am usually here for very few days at a time - I cannot afford to spend time repairing the vehicle. I drive it hard and fast (ask the guys who were on the Safari in the recent monsoon drive - we didnt spare the vehicle), and it takes my family through isolated stretches of roads, jungles and ghats at night. If one were to believe the overall sentiment running through this thread, I must be either suicidal or just plain loco to be doing so.

3 years & 55,000 kms of really hard and fast driving bordering on abuse most of the time have failed to bring my truck to a standstill. Looks like I'm not trying hard enough.

Last edited by Steeroid : 18th June 2008 at 11:59.
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Old 18th June 2008, 11:47   #95
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
What have you had to fix in TASS? AFAIK you own a Mahindra vehicle. How come you speak so authoritatively on TASS?

3+ years of experiences with TASS in Cochin (RF MOtors) and Bangalore (Prerna) have NEVER resulted in this kind of experience for me.

I will not claim that they are angels - they've broken stuff sometimes (and have always replaced it free of cost), left pawmarks on my paint and stuff like that, but have never had a cause to make a sweeping statement like the one above.

They have been attentive, proactive and even SCARED - the follow-up calls from Tata Motors drives fear into the TASS, and they always make sure before you leave that you have NO complaints left

As of now these are the sort of questions from Tata Motors Customer Service (telephonic, from Pune) that follow a service visit to your local TASS - within 3 days of the visit:

1. Were you greeted on arrival and shown to a proper parking space, was your mileage recorded by the security guard?

2. Were you attended by a Service Advisor within 10 minutes?

3. Did the service advisor ASK you about any issues you may have with the car other than the regular service requirements?

4. Were those issues recorded to your satisfaction on the Job Card?

5. Did you require replacement of any parts? If yes, were these covered by warranty?

6. If the parts were not covered by warranty, were you informed about the cost before they were replaced?

7. Did you get an SMS from Tata Motors when your work was completed and was this followed up with a call from your service advisor (applicable only if you had extra work, not just regular service)?

8. Was all the work done to your satisfaction?

9. Was the extra work carried out and any replacement done explained to you and are you satisfied with the explanation?

10. Was the car washed and clean when it was handed over to you? Did it contain everything that it did when it went in for service?

11. Did the Service Agent thank you after the service visit and inform you when the next service is due? Did the Security Guard check the mileage, take your gate pass and were they courteous?

12. On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate THIS visit to your TASS?
Phew!

Nice one.

I was like Hyundai A.S.S. was great till I went for TASS. Was impressed at how each supervisor calls you up if they have any doubt etc and also they give you their mobile numbers and tell you to call them anytime you want assistance. Also was impressed with the follow up call from Pune twice.
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Old 18th June 2008, 11:48   #96
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Yes Steer,

I've not noticed any A.S.C take so much care during service.Would rate them 9/10 for this complete dozen check.

Every time i service my safari at the Service Centre, they emphasise on all the above dozen points and make sure you go out whithout any complaints.

And about the Test Drives comparing the two, Everyone has his own personal preferences, at times you tend to bias yourself to a particular brand(At Times only).

I've never TD 'ed the MHwak, will surely do so. If the car turns out good its ok but would share my symphaties with poeple who buy this cramped car with a good engine.

I'd rather have a crude but reliable truck engine(307 for the 3Ltr DICOR) under my bonnet and a great minihouse to drive.

P.S: this is my personal views.

Last edited by PAVAN KADAM : 18th June 2008 at 11:49.
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Old 18th June 2008, 11:51   #97
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one thing we need to keep in mind as Safari owners is that the treatment that we get from the TASS is preferential.

you will not get the same treatment ifyou were to drive into a TASS in an Indica or (horror!!) Palio- this I say from personal experience with all 3 cars.

anyways, who am I to complain
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Old 18th June 2008, 12:00   #98
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Phew!

Nice one.

I was like Hyundai A.S.S. was great till I went for TASS. Was impressed at how each supervisor calls you up if they have any doubt etc and also they give you their mobile numbers and tell you to call them anytime you want assistance. Also was impressed with the follow up call from Pune twice.
Yep ... TASS has definetly improved ... From a Truck (Lorry/Bus) workshop to a Passenger Workshop take's a lot of time (Atmosphere wise).....

One Question I need to ask : Where are the Safari's which give so much trouble... why dont we get such troublesome one's. Or is it that Tata sells lemons to only a certain community ....

@ TSK : Go with the Safari u wouldnt regret it, Since you have used a Tata earlier, i dont think the Safari would be a un-reliable truck for you ....
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Old 18th June 2008, 12:03   #99
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One Question I need to ask : Where are the Safari's which give so much trouble... why dont we get such troublesome one's. Or is it that Tata sells lemons to only a certain community ....
Such vehicles are only sold to uncles, cousins, friends and colleagues. This must be some sort of Tata policy.
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Old 18th June 2008, 12:04   #100
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Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
3+ years of experiences with TASS in Cochin (RF MOtors) and Bangalore (Prerna)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Phew!
Nice one.

I was like Hyundai A.S.S. was great till I went for TASS.
Wow, now thats news. Is it possible that Safari owners get different treatment from TASS as compared to Safari owners. We have owned 4 indicas, 1 indigo and 1 safari 3.0 in the family. The 3.0 definitely got better service(the service advisor head was a friend of my uncle, he later went to GM. Anyways the 3.0 faced just 2 problems(one sensor when new, and earth problem).
The indica's and indigo are a different story.
Esp my indica.
For its first 30,000kms it was serviced at Concorde motors bangalore, and the level of service was horrendous. I was charged for a part which is covered under extended warranty according to my booklet, and only after lot of shouting fighting I was given a 500rs credit towards labor charges.
At that time I was a bachelor, and both my roommates bought Tata indigo Petrol cars because of the excellent space.
Same story there. One of them tried manipal motors, and they polished the dashboard with diesel. He also had a fuel leak problem which persisted for months because Tata had changed the part type, and spares were not available. He wrote to regional customer care center, made calls every day, and was suggested temporary remedies like "Tie a polyethene bag".
Similar issues with my other roommates petrol indigo.
I used to tell them why did you buy a Tata petrol, look at my car, no issues.
Well issues did start coming.
Alternator developed a fault, and Manipal motors(who did not even have a multimeter) changed the battery without checking the alternator.
At that time I came to noida, and my struggles with Sterling started.
I diagnosed the Alternator problem myself(in 3 visits they kept on insisting bad battery and could not diagnose).
The alternator got repaired multiple times.
Lots of similar issues with other things also, and my car started costing me a lot to maintain.
Then, one fine day I was stranded on a lonely highway with my wife, with a failed alternator.
Thats the day I decided, TASS never, and started maintaining the car myself, by looking at the service manual, seeing what requires change at what.
Couple of days back the gear assembly pin broke. But its 100,000kms old and end of life, so I don't blame tata for this really, but the service I got at 11:30pm in the night was exemplary, and this i could never have expected from Tata.

But we are not talking indica/go's here, right?
I have followed your ownership reviews, and they seem to be from another planet.
Maybe its because the TASS centers treat the safari customers differently?

Maybe Tata higher ups really listen to customers(for example Nawab motors noida has lots it service center license). Concorde motors Ludhiana also lost their service center license(while retaining the sales license).

Quote:
Originally Posted by PAVAN KADAM View Post
Yes Steer,

I've not noticed any A.S.C take so much care during service.Would rate them 9/10 for this complete dozen check.

Every time i service my safari at the Service Centre, they emphasise on all the above dozen points and make sure you go out whithout any complaints.

And about the Test Drives comparing the two, Everyone has his own personal preferences, at times you tend to bias yourself to a particular brand(At Times only).

I've never TD 'ed the MHwak, will surely do so. If the car turns out good its ok but would share my symphaties with poeple who buy this cramped car with a good engine.

I'd rather have a crude but reliable truck engine(307 for the 3Ltr DICOR) under my bonnet and a great minihouse to drive.

P.S: this is my personal views.
The crampness of the scorpio is overrated. For example at the drivers seat my knees were uncomfortably close to the steering wheel( I tried all sorts of height adjustments).
The indica has much better room for the driver.


Other than that, a purchase decision is many times based on economics.
If I get 50K cash discount on the Safari(at one point this was possible), then all this is moot, and even though I got "converted to the dark side" it will be the beast which is parked in the garage.
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Old 18th June 2008, 12:08   #101
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The indica's and indigo are a different story.
Esp my indica.
For its first 30,000kms it was serviced at Concorde motors bangalore, and the level of service was horrendous. I was charged for a part which is covered under extended warranty according to my booklet, and only after lot of shouting fighting I was given a 500rs credit towards labor charges.
At that time I was a bachelor, and both my roommates bought Tata indigo Petrol cars because of the excellent space.
Same story there. One of them tried manipal motors, and they polished the dashboard with diesel. He also had a fuel leak problem which persisted for months because Tata had changed the part type, and spares were not available. He wrote to regional customer care center, made calls every day, and was suggested temporary remedies like "Tie a polyethene bag".
Similar issues with my other roommates petrol indigo.
I used to tell them why did you buy a Tata petrol, look at my car, no issues.
Well issues did start coming.
Alternator developed a fault, and Manipal motors(who did not even have a multimeter) changed the battery without checking the alternator.
At that time I came to noida, and my struggles with Sterling started.
I diagnosed the Alternator problem myself(in 3 visits they kept on insisting bad battery and could not diagnose).
The alternator got repaired multiple times.
Lots of similar issues with other things also, and my car started costing me a lot to maintain.
Then, one fine day I was stranded on a lonely highway with my wife, with a failed alternator.
Thats the day I decided, TASS never, and started maintaining the car myself, by looking at the service manual, seeing what requires change at what.
Couple of days back the gear assembly pin broke. But its 100,000kms old and end of life, so I don't blame tata for this really, but the service I got at 11:30pm in the night was exemplary, and this i could never have expected from Tata.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
But we are not talking indica/go's here, right?
Exactly.

Stop
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Old 18th June 2008, 12:14   #102
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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
one thing we need to keep in mind as Safari owners is that the treatment that we get from the TASS is preferential.

you will not get the same treatment ifyou were to drive into a TASS in an Indica or (horror!!) Palio- this I say from personal experience with all 3 cars.

anyways, who am I to complain
Well I was looking for somebody who owns the Indica and Safari both. So there is a difference. Well thats interesting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post




Exactly.

Stop
Well, I am not beating a dead horse. The largest factor when going with a manufacturer is your previous experience with the manufacturer.
My experience is for the indica, and what all you mentioned about TASS, is not what I got.
Thats why the question, are Safari owners treated better? If so, it makes living with the Safari easier.
Himanshu is the only guy who has come up with his experience of Tata Indica and Tata Safari both.

BTW, you have to own an Indica to realize how customers are treated at TASS.
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Old 18th June 2008, 12:15   #103
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Originally Posted by himanshugoswami View Post
one thing we need to keep in mind as Safari owners is that the treatment that we get from the TASS is preferential.
Let me second this - I'm extremely happy with my Tata workshop & I've recommended this to at least two of my T-bhp Safari friends who are using the same place & appear to be satisfied. And they come from the other end of the NCR to Gurgaon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
Such vehicles are only sold to uncles, cousins, friends and colleagues. This must be some sort of Tata policy.
ROTFLMAO
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The crampness of the scorpio is overrated. For example at the drivers seat my knees were uncomfortably close to the steering wheel( I tried all sorts of height adjustments).
The indica has much better room for the driver.
So does that mean you agree its cramped? Or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
Other than that, a purchase decision is many times based on economics.
If I get 50K cash discount on the Safari(at one point this was possible), then all this is moot, and even though I got "converted to the dark side" it will be the beast which is parked in the garage.
That's funny - are you saying that for 50k, you'd compromise your feel-good factor completely? And buy something which, according to you is not reliable & inferior to the other product on your radar?

Different strokes for different folks I suppose. I would always go for the product that made sense from an overall perspective to me. Would never buy an unreliable product.

Last edited by suman : 18th June 2008 at 12:19.
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Old 18th June 2008, 12:22   #104
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That's funny - are you saying that for 50k, you'd compromise your feel-good factor completely? And buy something which, according to you is not reliable & inferior to the other product on your radar?

Different strokes for different folks I suppose. I would always go for the product that made sense from an overall perspective to me. Would never buy an unreliable product.
No not 50K, I am talking about
Price difference between Scorpio and Safari(close to 40-50K) + discount which I may get on Safari and not the Scorpio.

Budget is very important in "overall perspective",
I am willing to pay more for a more easy to drive and more refined product, but not beyond a certain limit.
If you read my first post(with the review), I have outlined the budget and other constraints.

Another factor which is dripping from my posts, but nobody "understood" is that I "want" to buy the Safari. The heart wants it. Its the head which has intervened and is causing us grief(my wife also wants to buy safari but is daunted by handling the behemoth in cramped city traffic).

As for inferiority and unreliability, I do not belong to the school of thought who thinks I will end up stranded every day. Reliability was never a factor in the preference change. It was refinement and ease of driving.

Regarding the TASS vs. Mahindra A.S.S, my only relationship(direct) with Tata has been due to the indica. As HG said, Safari customers get different treatment. And if I can be a part of that, why not!

And as you said, people coming from other side of NCR to your preferred service center, well if I buy the EX, then add me to the list too.

Last edited by tsk1979 : 18th June 2008 at 12:25.
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Old 18th June 2008, 12:28   #105
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
I was like Hyundai A.S.S. was great till I went for TASS. Was impressed at how each supervisor calls you up if they have any doubt etc and also they give you their mobile numbers and tell you to call them anytime you want assistance. Also was impressed with the follow up call from Pune twice.
By Ford dealer also treats/treated (they have taken up another dealership now) me the same way, and i have been quite vocal about that as well. But, would that make anyone change their opinion about Ford and its after-sales service?
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