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Old 20th July 2008, 10:15   #76
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The opening of exhaust header is different, oval ofr OE and round for other. Wasnt that an issue?

And its got CatCon?
Yes this is a huge issue. The OE exhaust manifold has LARGER ports.

Automech uses smaller size ports to save (their) cost. I even called Vivek at Automech, but he will not redo the header.

As soon as I can find someone to make proper oval ports that are the same as the O.E. manifold, I will toss the Automech out.

No catcon.
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Old 20th July 2008, 11:14   #77
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Congrats!! Your threads are a pleasure to read. I have a long way to go to increase my level of knowledge.

Does refinement of the car increase with free flow?
I guess the refinement increases as the restriction is removed.

Last edited by PatienceWins : 20th July 2008 at 11:17.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 23:39   #78
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Default Alternator Disaster!!!!!!!!

I wanted to give an update on my "new" Palio 1.6 and the total disaster with an electrical issue with the alternator.

Bottom line is: If anyone has a problem with their Palio 1.6 alternator, go straight to the dealer! It is a 90 amp unit p/n 0 124 325 058 that is made in Spain and imported. Do not bother with local electricians, or even authorized Bosch dealers.

I ran into a problem with my alternator last week when my car would not start after refueling. I called a local mechanic, and they pulled my alternator, and promised to get a replacement or repair it. Left the car overnight (big mistake) and they got 2 different alternators that did not match up to the stock one. Then the electrician shows me a "new" alternator which was a cleverly overhauled used unit. Of course I said no way.

Then I called about 3 authorized Bosch dealers in Delhi, and one of them tries to convince me that the 80 amp unit will work. The 1.6 uses a 90 amp unit. Then an honest Bosch dealer tells me that Bosch India does not market that specific alternator, and I can try Khan Market where a lot of imported parts are available.

So I am back to square one, and the electrician tries to convince me that he can now repair the faulty alternator. I pointedly ask him if he will use an EXACT replacement part and he says no. So I collect the pieces of my alternator that he had disassembled without my permission, and only later I found out what this crook of an electrician has really done behind my back!

Totally fed up at this point, I get my car towed to the dealer in Noida. They have the exact alternator in stock, so I just get the whole think replaced. Price: Rs. 12,000 .

I could have had it repaired since the dealer had the two internal parts: Rectifier/diode assembly (Rs.4000), and regulator/brush assembly (Rs. 3000). But unfortunately, I found out that the local electrician had earlier broken the rectifier while opening the alternator, and had stolen the regulator/brush and given me a damaged brush from a different alternator. So rather than spend 7k on repair, I just went for a brand new unit.

So I guess you live and learn. Hopefully other Palio 1.6 users will just go straight to an authorized service center and avoid the hassles and delays that I had to go through.
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Old 24th July 2008, 00:33   #79
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Wouch. That is a needless and painful repair.

It was worries like that which kept me away from a 1.9 ELX sp purchase.

Which dealer did you go to? Samyak? Dynamic?
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Old 24th July 2008, 00:38   #80
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Good decision Gaurav, spending 7k or repairing an alternator does not make any sense when the new one costs 12k. And you get a warranty with it too.
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Old 24th July 2008, 13:01   #81
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I have had to replace my alternator too under warranty . They said that it was now supplied by TVS Lucas and cost about 6k.
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Old 24th July 2008, 13:06   #82
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I just am not sure how to upload a video. Is this on the TBHP site or an outside site? I have video capablity on my pocket digicam, so let me know how, and I will give it a try.
shoot a video using your digicam - download the file into your pc - and upload the file at YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. - after the file has been uploaded copy paste the URL link in here.

any idea why does my GTX's horn SPL goes down in stop and go traffic with / without AC?

Last edited by planet_rocker : 24th July 2008 at 13:08.
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Old 24th July 2008, 15:29   #83
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Originally Posted by planet_rocker View Post
shoot a video using your digicam - download the file into your pc - and upload the file at YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. - after the file has been uploaded copy paste the URL link in here.

any idea why does my GTX's horn SPL goes down in stop and go traffic with / without AC?
Should be water. Happens many times in rainy seasons.
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Old 24th July 2008, 16:28   #84
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Default off topic

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Should be water. Happens many times in rainy seasons.
i dont think so - it happens on a dry sunny day as well :( - even at night during stop and go traffic. add to that HL fogging on both sides. :(
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Old 24th July 2008, 16:41   #85
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i dont think so - it happens on a dry sunny day as well :( - even at night during stop and go traffic. add to that HL fogging on both sides. :(
Once the water clogs in, it doesn't dry so early. Hence you will experience it even on sunny days till the water inside dries out. But the water may make the horn sound different even after it dries. My Suggestion is to take it to e local Mechanic and get the horns checked. If there's water, dry it without delay.
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Old 24th July 2008, 20:25   #86
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Wouch. That is a needless and painful repair.

It was worries like that which kept me away from a 1.9 ELX sp purchase.

Which dealer did you go to? Samyak? Dynamic?
I went to Samyak, as they have the biggest inventory of Fiat spares. They had the new alternator as well as parts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bottle View Post
I have had to replace my alternator too under warranty . They said that it was now supplied by TVS Lucas and cost about 6k.
I would suggest that you pull the alternator out and make sure you have a 90 amp unit and not a 80 amp. I really hope that your dealer did not cut corners and give you the Palio 1.2 alternator. My new alternator is definitely a Bosch made in Spain unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by planet_rocker View Post
shoot a video using your digicam - download the file into your pc - and upload the file at YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. - after the file has been uploaded copy paste the URL link in here.

any idea why does my GTX's horn SPL goes down in stop and go traffic with / without AC?
O.k., I will try the YouTube .
Not sure what you mean by your horn SPL . If you mean the volume goes down in stop and go traffic and also when the AC is on, it may signal a low charge on the battery and/or insufficient current flow from the alternator.
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Old 26th July 2008, 08:33   #87
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Gaurav, now that you have had the FFE for quite some time now, few questions and updates required:

1. Was the FFE install a headache, considering that headers are towards the engine-bay firewall and accessing them is a pain. Did the install required dismantling quite a few other arts as well just for access purposes. I ask this because, if the installer is not an expert with Palio 1.6, then there could be issues with the install of parts. From the pics it looks like that you got the install done at home (not at Samyak).

2. The sound of FFE on Palio is too good and has to be heard to be believed. Apart from music of sound, are you seeing any impact on the FE -- either +ve/-ve or is it same.

3. What is the setup that has been done to the FFE and is it low rpm setup, mid rpm or is itonly when you floor the pedal do you see the FFE making that growl? Did you specify any setup or do all automech FFE come with same setup for Palio.

4. After your experience with automech (especially with the header port size/quality of welds), will you suggest it to anyone or is it better to get a custom job done with a good FFE tuner?
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Old 26th July 2008, 11:17   #88
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K_S - since you are in bangy, i would suggest take your pic from any of the following installers:

1. 16v100's S10 has FFE custom made by Electra Performance, Chennai - Fiat Palio 1.6 S10 - 16v100bhp's Photo Gallery - Team-BHP

2. Harrie's GTX has FFE made by Psycho, Bangalore - Palio 1.6 Now Sold! - Harrie's Photo Gallery - Team-BHP

AFAIK, automech doesn't do custom jobs.

Last edited by planet_rocker : 26th July 2008 at 11:19.
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Old 26th July 2008, 13:55   #89
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Originally Posted by khan_sultan View Post
Gaurav, now that you have had the FFE for quite some time now, few questions and updates required:

1. Was the FFE install a headache, considering that headers are towards the engine-bay firewall and accessing them is a pain. Did the install required dismantling quite a few other arts as well just for access purposes. I ask this because, if the installer is not an expert with Palio 1.6, then there could be issues with the install of parts. From the pics it looks like that you got the install done at home (not at Samyak).

2. The sound of FFE on Palio is too good and has to be heard to be believed. Apart from music of sound, are you seeing any impact on the FE -- either +ve/-ve or is it same.

3. What is the setup that has been done to the FFE and is it low rpm setup, mid rpm or is itonly when you floor the pedal do you see the FFE making that growl? Did you specify any setup or do all automech FFE come with same setup for Palio.

4. After your experience with automech (especially with the header port size/quality of welds), will you suggest it to anyone or is it better to get a custom job done with a good FFE tuner?

1. Installation was no big deal, and yes it was done at home. The dealer that I usually service my car, Samyak, refused to do this job. You have to remove the intake manifold to access the area between the engine and firewall, so the installer has to be careful about the sensors, wiring, throttle cable. I would be certainly better done by a mechanic who is familiar with the Palio 1.6, but a good competent mechanic who takes his time and pays attention to detail will do.

2. I agree with you about the sound of the Palio 1.6 motor with a FFE. I sounds like half of a Ferrari engine. If you have ever heard a small V8 Ferrari singing at high rpm, you will know what I mean.

Never checked the fuel economy, but my gut feel is that there is a small improvement.

3. Automech just makes one type of FFE system for the Palio 1.6. The only option is a piece of flex pipe. I paid an extra Rs. 1,400 for the flex pipe, and would highly recommend it. The flex pipe cuts vibrations.

The Automech system is tuned for low and mid rpm. No loss of power at the low end, and you can drive it at ultra low rpm, like 1500 for high fuel economy cruising. Very nice to about 5000 rpm, with a meaty growl starting at 3k. 4k to 5k is its power band. You start seeing a slight loss of power in the 5k to 6k rpm range. Not sure if this is due to the Automech system or 1.6 engine characteristics such as cam profile, fueling, etc.

4. It is true that I am not happy with the weld quality and the smaller than stock header port size. But I am not sure that local tuners can do better weld quality. I visited a guy in Delhi that does a large number of headers for many Delhi/NCR tuners and the weld quality was no better than the Automech. Problem is that fabricators tend to make the outside of the headers and exhaust look nice, but the inside smoothness and finish is what counts for performance. If I compare and contrast the stock Palio 1.6 exhaust system internal finish to the Automech, there is no comparison. The stock finish is 100% better.

In my experience, this is the problem with tuning in India. You do not get the really high quality of finishing available in the U.S. for aftermarket parts. Perhaps better workmanship is available down south?

The main problem for making headers are the collectors. Fabricating high quality collectors takes a very high degree if fabrication skill that is just not available for the auto aftermarket in India. One idea that I have is to purchase high quality y collectors or a 4 into 1 collector in the U.S., and then have a local fabricator build the header.

The other option that I am considering is using the stock exhaust manifold and custom fabricating a 2.5 inch exhaust line. I looked at the stock exhaust manifold, and it is actually very nice quality, with nice smooth internals. It has a nice large 2.150 inch exhaust port. I can post pics if you are interested.

Regards,
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Old 26th July 2008, 16:56   #90
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Originally Posted by RedMM340 View Post

....The other option that I am considering is using the stock exhaust manifold and custom fabricating a 2.5 inch exhaust line. I looked at the stock exhaust manifold, and it is actually very nice quality, with nice smooth internals. It has a nice large 2.150 inch exhaust port. I can post pics if you are interested.

...
Do elaborate on this on what will the complete FFE look like in this scenario. FFE is on my to do agenda for my S10.

Do post the pictures. I do believe that the stock manifold is of very high quality and not like what we find in other cars..
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