Palio 1.6 GTX – Initial review of a used 2002 model

[RedMM340]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Do elaborate on this on what will the complete FFE look like in this scenario. FFE is on my to do agenda for my S10.

Do post the pictures. I do believe that the stock manifold is of very high quality and not like what we find in other cars..

Attached is a pic of the Palio 1.6 exhaust manifold. The ports are oval shaped have dimensions of 1.625 inch wide x 0.925 inch high . The internals are very smooth. The outer and inner ports blend together very smoothly also. Exhaust manifold outlet is 2.150 inch diameter.

What you might want to do is simply make an adapter piece to eliminate the catalytic converter, and leave the rest of the exhaust stock. Replace the muffler with a sport unit and see how it sounds. Then if you want to free up the exhaust even more, cut out the mid resonator and replace it with a simple tube.

[khan_sultan]

Thanks Gaurav. I also have a feeling that the power of the 1.6 is good enough and what I am looking for is the 'music of the Palio exhaust sound' and not any increase in power.

This is what I have in mind:
1. NOT go for custom headers and keep the stock headers
2. Step 1: Remove the mid resonator.
3. Step 2: Then remove the muffler

I would prefer keeping the cat-con and if at all, remove it last.

[RedMM340]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

Thanks Gaurav. I also have a feeling that the power of the 1.6 is good enough and what I am looking for is the 'music of the Palio exhaust sound' and not any increase in power.

This is what I have in mind:
1. NOT go for custom headers and keep the stock headers
2. Step 1: Remove the mid resonator.
3. Step 2: Then remove the muffler

I would prefer keeping the cat-con and if at all, remove it last.

Why keep the cat-con? It is the #1 restriction and huge source of under bonnet heat. I would lose the cat-con first.

Are you concerned about pollution?

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

Why keep the cat-con? It is the #1 restriction and huge source of under bonnet heat. I would lose the cat-con first.

mmmmmmmm.... you got me thinking here. One of my concerns is those O2 sensors that do some fuzzy computations and am afraid of an adverse impact to the ECU because of the sensors.

Originally Posted by RedMM340

Are you concerned about pollution?

Yes, I am -- but not at the cost of 'sound of palio exhaust note music'

[RedMM340]

Originally Posted by khan_sultan

mmmmmmmm.... you got me thinking here. One of my concerns is those O2 sensors that do some fuzzy computations and am afraid of an adverse impact to the ECU because of the sensors.



Yes, I am -- but not at the cost of 'sound of palio exhaust note music'

Do you have 1 or 2 O2 sensors?

My Euro 2 Palio has only 1 O2 sensor, and I have seen absolutely no issues with removing the cat.

I honestly am not sure what would happen in a 2 O2 sensor scenario.

[sahakar]

This is a cool thread.

I just got myself a 2003 S10 and am just starting out getting the car done. Changed the tyres to Yokohama 185's. 195's were old stock.
Then unfortunately a day later the car failed to start. Changed the RPM sensor but no luck. Finally towed it to Anuroop. Waiting for them to fix it up. Hoping they don't take more than a couple of days.
Cant wait to get the S10 back and stop using the WagonR.

I am hoping to do quite a bit of work on the car and have kept a lakh aside for the same.

Will keep you guys posted....

[rmonie]

@RedMM340 While you no doubt may be right on the dimensions etc of the stock Palio 1.6 manifold. I too havebeen using an Automech header for the last year or so & have found an amazing difference in the low and mid end performance. I don't really agree to your analysis on the Automech headers/FFE

[RedMM340]

Originally Posted by rmonie

@RedMM340 While you no doubt may be right on the dimensions etc of the stock Palio 1.6 manifold. I too havebeen using an Automech header for the last year or so & have found an amazing difference in the low and mid end performance. I don't really agree to your analysis on the Automech headers/FFE

Well the latest on the Automech is that they have developed a crack. And it is leaking exhaust gas.

I am not very happy with Automech quality as of now.

Having an exhaust manifold with port dimension smaller than the cylinder head is just wrong. I just wonder if it is causing the head to heat up more than it should.

[planet_rocker]

Originally Posted by RedMM340

Well the latest on the Automech is that they have developed a crack. And it is leaking exhaust gas.

I am not very happy with Automech quality as of now.

Having an exhaust manifold with port dimension smaller than the cylinder head is just wrong. I just wonder if it is causing the head to heat up more than it should.

oouch! that is bad!

what do you plan to do now.

if you plan to get a different set - i would suggest Elektra Performance, Chennai ( Electra Performance welcomes you ) - get in touch with Mr Krupesh Patel directly. my padmini has elektra headers and FFE and IMO their quality is good.

i am sure you problem will be solved soon

[sahakar]

Folks any clue where would I get a Green Storm filter for my S10 in Bombay betwen Bandra to Andheri area. Viper has it but its a pain to go all the way to Colaba.

Btw have just started doing up the S10.
Here's the laundry list done
--> New tyres -185 Yokohamas (Didnt find fresh 195s and couldn't wait)
--> Injectors removed and cleaned by Lucas thru Anoorop
--> Engine Decarbonised
--> Engine oil flush and put in Castrol Magnatec (After 3 months will flush again and put in synthetic)

Am going to do a full car checkup and see what work needs to be done soon.

Do let me know if you folks know what else should I specifically look for. Its a 4 year old S10 with 45k done...

Cheers,
Sahakar

[khan_sultan]

Originally Posted by sahakar

.... I just got myself a 2003 S10 and am just starting out getting the car done....
I am hoping to do quite a bit of work on the car and have kept a lakh aside for the same.
....

Originally Posted by sahakar

.... Btw have just started doing up the S10.
Here's the laundry list done ....
....
Do let me know if you folks know what else should I specifically look for. Its a 4 year old S10 with 45k done...

@Sahakar,

Congrats for the S10. I would suggest that you start a new thread for your S10 and share the complete buying & initial owning experience, the mods/work done so far and the planned work.

This way members here can find your thread and give you suggestions and you wouldn't be hijacking Gaurav's thread either.

Cheers,

[RedMM340]

The Automech system is out, and sitting on the porch of my house.

I have installed the stock exhaust manifold with 2 inch exhaust tubing, mid pipe resonator, and stainless steel muffler. All work was done by Silencer house in New Delhi. This guy does a lot of the header and FFE work for Delhi/NCR Tuners.

Good News: Nice fit up, stock heat shield around stock exhaust manifold in place. Nice SS rear muffler tucked up high with no chance of rubbing ground.

Bad News: Huge loss of power over Automech, even stock ! Low end is terrible, high end is also bad. Engine just does not rev as well. Spent Rs. 9K . Sound is very loud, with a headache inducing vibration. By comparison, the Automech system sounded very good, and gave excellent low and mid range power.

Well this has been a good but expensive learning experience. I had pretty much made up my mind to re-install the entire stock exhaust system, but thought that I should call Automech again. Called up Vivek at Automech and he agreed to supply a new header with enlarged oval ports that match the size of the stock ports! It will take about 2 weeks to deliver, since a re-design is involved, so I am eagerly waiting for delivery. I also advised him about the crack in the header, but this is a non-issue at this point since the header is being replaced.

[khan_sultan]

Gaurav,

Sad to hear about this, but we all learn something everyday.

It's ironical, because just yesterday at the Bangalore T-BHP meet some of us were discussing about Palio 1.6/GTX and your cars mod came up for discussion. I was mentioning that by the looks of the FFE mod it seems that Gaurav will be on stock exhaust pretty soon and you post about it here today.

BTW, this power loss you say is *compared* to the automech FFE. Right? I don't think that you mean that power loss is even less than what was there before you started the FFE mod.

BTW, almost NO ONE in T-BHP meet was recommending automech. 'Stay Away' was the word being used.

[RedMM340]

Hi Shahnawaz,

Yes the power is much less as compared to Automech.

I believe the current setup is worse than stock. Throttle response is not as good. It is a bit difficult to be very sure.

I will do a complete write up on the Automech experience after I get the new headers. What I can say at this point, is that there are some problem areas that Automech is addressing. So it would only be fair to wait until the new headers are supplied.

Regards,

[lohithrao]

RedMM340, Nice thread

AM planning to pick a 2002 Adventure, i guess i will get the exhaust fixed on it the end pipe has got rusted... not sure i want to go for a ffe

Is there any way to check the alternators condition? 12k is expensive