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Old 22nd July 2008, 14:53   #31
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The Rumour mill says that The Stig personal car is a Hyundai I10. I guess that should be a good enough certification for this hot hatch.

PS: He drives the 1.1L one
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Old 22nd July 2008, 15:28   #32
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source: The Hindu : Business : Hyundai launches Kappa engine powered ‘i10’

"...The company has invested $421 million in research and development of the Kappa engine..."

Wow! That is some money to reinvent the wheel!
Btw, what is new? (Plz, not DOHC)
Any new inventions?
Couldn't they just TC the old Santro engine (ERLX / IRDI)?
Most manufacturers seem to be going in for small engines in the range of 700cc-1000cc and then TC them.

If Hyundai has seriously spent the millions they claim to have on this engine, then I am sure something is not right here!

Do you think that this engine will win any awards?
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Old 22nd July 2008, 16:05   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sushanthr77 View Post
Do you think that this engine will win any awards?
Yes, for the name of engine - Kappa!
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Old 22nd July 2008, 16:06   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sushanthr77 View Post
source: The Hindu : Business : Hyundai launches Kappa engine powered ‘i10’

"...The company has invested $421 million in research and development of the Kappa engine..."

If Hyundai has seriously spent the millions they claim to have on this engine, then I am sure something is not right here!

Do you think that this engine will win any awards?
I guess it cannot be for just one engine of 1.2L capacity, the investment is more or less for a range of engines of various capacities, the 1.2L is probably the smallest one in this range

For e.g the Getz and Accent got the Alpha series with 1.3L and 1.5L
the Accent GTX (probably) and Elantra got the Beta series 1.6L and 1.8L.
I think the Verna has the Alpha II VVT 1.6L

The Santro Xing got the Epsilon series which is now on the i10 and Getz prime.

Last edited by indivic : 22nd July 2008 at 16:07.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 16:22   #35
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Originally Posted by kapilsharma80 View Post
what is the mileage that 1.1 i10 is giving in city
At my last check after the first servicing my i10 (1.1L) was giving me 13.2 kmpl. I was not able to do any checks after that as I had to fill partial tank due to the petrol scare. I plan to do a millage check tomorrow.

The above is with 50% ac in city.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 16:38   #36
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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
I guess it cannot be for just one engine of 1.2L capacity, the investment is more or less for a range of engines of various capacities, the 1.2L is probably the smallest one in this range
Atleast this part is true. Kappa range also includes a 1.4 Petrol for i20.

Also a lot of people are missing a few things while calling i10 a HOT hatch.

Putting in a larger engine in a small car does not necessarily make it a HOT hatch! It has also to do with engine nature.

A Yezdi has a 250 cc engine, the SRV has a big engine, Palio had a 1.2, Aveo has a 1.6 yet we don't call these cars/bikes performance oriented. I am sure if Hyundai wanted it could tune the 1.2 kappa for greater performance and lesser mileage. But 1.2 is just the NEXT chapter of epsilon (Santro) range of engines

ELito

Last edited by Elito11 : 22nd July 2008 at 16:58.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 17:29   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clevermax View Post
I learned form the newspaper adv. that Kappa is nothing but 16V DOHC. Why is hyundai boasting about that so much as if it is some breakthrough in automotive technology? It is so funny, at the same time irritating.

Sometime back they boasted about something called 'Erlx'.


You seem to be avery good driver, having gained that much confidence in a light & flimsy city car while driving through the expressway. Having said that, I'd never do that in a car like Santro.
Small car with DOHC, thats something new for a layman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bimi View Post
I went to the showroom today to check out the i10Kappa, the test drive car wasnt registered, so I decided to take a drive later tomorrow after the RTO completes his job.
7. Euro 4 & 5 ready engine
8. Compession ratio of 10.5:1 (swift btw is 9:1)
9. Knock sensor
10. The power to weight ratio is 92.5 (ps/ton) (swift is 88.2)
Can any one update us whether there is any other car in this segment which is so advanced as the kappa.

Then we can ascertain whether Hyundai is boasting or not.

ERLX... i have also heard of that. I have heard of PSPO from some fan co. too... I dont think any one knows what is PSPO!! I think these are just marketing gimmicks! ... and I think both PSPO & ERLX have clicked
Cheers
Euro 5 ready. Thats what they wanted to export it and be future safe and hence the new engine. PSPO/ERLX/ all sold well. More tahn 1lac plus i10 were exported. Was wondering if these marketing things help much outside developing countries.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rks View Post
Tell you what, this car will be a killer with Speed 97, since it has a compression ratio of 10.5:1 (and knock sensors as well). Put high-octane pettrol and Swift could be huffing and puffing. And given such a high compression ratio, there ought to be a mileage improvement with Speed 97 that is significant enough to offset most of its additional cost. I know which petrol I am going to use, once I get my hands on this car.
It will need better octane petrol, can be an issue when one take in for long tours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
The Rumour mill says that The Stig personal car is a Hyundai I10. I guess that should be a good enough certification for this hot hatch.

PS: He drives the 1.1L one
Thats interesting. And an intelligent way to avoid attention?

Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Yes, for the name of engine - Kappa!
Guess they love maths a bit more!



OT,
and as if we all at TBHP dont do insane speeds.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 18:01   #38
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Anyone driven the automatic Kappa?
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Old 22nd July 2008, 21:00   #39
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Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Whats left? Looks ? beige interiors? or speedo in the right place and that its a 2007 products ?

M800 too is cheaper than Spark and hence VFM?
Boss, VFM is a relative term. When we are talking about two cars in the same segment, then only the term VFM is relevent. Let me give an example:

SX4 v/s Honda City - Both car belong to the same segment, but similar speced SX4 is cheaper than the City and the Fully loaded SX4 ZXi comes with ABS, Airbags, Climate control is cheaper than the top model City IDSi, which does not even offer it as optional.

This is the meaning of VFM. Ofcourse, to buy or not to buy, its the end customer's call. Other factors have to be looked into. Example, personal preferences, bias, herd mentality etc.


Now if the i10 Kappa and Chevrolet Spark belong to the same segment? Its debatable. But in my view, yes.

Ok, let me be more lenient. Lets compare Spark only with the i10 IRDE. And lets assume that i10 Kappa is a Swift/Getz segment car.

Now you can't even argue that i10 IRDE engine is a 2007 product. The engine is more than a decade old, as we all know. But so is Spark's S-tec. So,

Engine:
i10 ~ Spark

Now comes the handling.
Obviously,
Spark > i10

Oh and the ride quality, suspension etc.
Spark >> i10

and did i forget engine refinement?
Well,
Spark > i10


.. and the Fuel Efficiency? I think Autocar gave it the best rating out of F10D and Erlx

so,
FE: Spark > i10 IRDE

Ok, lets add Beige interiors now. Be happy.
i10 > Spark

Now the only major factor remaining is A.S.S.
Agreed that GM is not in the same league as Hyundai, but its not as bad either. Spare parts of Spark are comparable to Santro and wagonRs. And did i tell you that Hyundai dealers are more than happy to give customer cars for test drives, and that all Chevy dealers i visited had a dedicated Demo car?
Well....

A.S.S.
i10 > Spark

But the most important part. Price.
i10 Era IRDE is almost 80k more than similar speced Spark (LS). The question is, is the i10 IRDE worth the premium over Spark LS, taking into consideration totality of above points ? Agreed its good, but is it *that* good ? Isnt the Spark better VFM?


Think about it....


@rks, i can post a video of M800 doing 150kmph on speedo. It doesn't prove anything. BTW, i request you to be please more responsible on road.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas
OT,
and as if we all at TBHP dont do insane speeds.
No atleast i don't do "insane" speeds. But still a proud T-BHPian. Maybe because i don't own Super Santros like some of you guys do.

Last edited by DCEite : 22nd July 2008 at 21:06.
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Old 22nd July 2008, 21:26   #40
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Hyundai prodcuts are always good but they are never priced sensibly!

After these recent further price fall in spark, That makes it even more VFM in the segment.

Not to mention the improvement in A.S.S
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Old 22nd July 2008, 22:22   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finneyp View Post
Yes, for the name of engine - Kappa!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkdas View Post
Guess they love maths a bit more!
I suspect they will love meen (fish) curry even more


SPOILER
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Old 23rd July 2008, 09:06   #42
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If the TD cars are registered I will go for a test drive today to HMP. I dont want to rip, but I would like to drive the way I do normally.
In the meanwhile I have been surfing the net for some details of the Kappa engine and I found the following link:
Hyundai’s new Kappa engine

It gives a fairly good understanding of the kappa engine of the i10

Name sounds "fishy" for some but all engines of Hyundai are from Greek alphabets. Kappa is the 10th alphabet in the Greek language. So lets forget the "meen" (fish) issue and not be so trivial about these small things. I always feel that team-bhp should be a forum to pass on correct information/knowledge to everyone who is passionate about cars.

Good to hear that the BBC Topgear "Stig" drives an i10. Any Idea about when is the broadcast for the program where he does a slalom with an i10?

Cheers
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Old 23rd July 2008, 12:15   #43
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Fully agree with DCEite. And to add. From a spark buyer's perspective, for my spark at 3.22L, if I must pay some 25% extra for i10, I wouldn't. Just my VFM perspective.

Techno bhai, you need to come down to Delhi/Gurgaon to see the sheer number of Spark/UVAs that are being sold. Chevy is doing quite well in Delhi.

and frankly, about engine, that is the other thing I wanted to address - what rocket science is there in iRDE that is new? Spark is anyways more refined/silent. Yes, I agree it makes more power at lower revs (I agree i10 is more powerful, and its more apparent), but technology is still same. Its not like anything is studded with jewels!
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Old 23rd July 2008, 12:29   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elito11 View Post
Also a lot of people are missing a few things while calling i10 a HOT hatch.

Putting in a larger engine in a small car does not necessarily make it a HOT hatch! It has also to do with engine nature.

I am sure if Hyundai wanted it could tune the 1.2 kappa for greater performance and lesser mileage. But 1.2 is just the NEXT chapter of epsilon (Santro) range of engines

ELito
And we all know that Hyundai's slightly bigger engines promise more on paper than they actually perform on the road starting from Accent's 1.5,1.6 and now Verna's 1.6

I hope the Kappa series are better on the road
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Old 23rd July 2008, 12:37   #45
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Fully agree with DCEite. And to add. From a spark buyer's perspective, for my spark at 3.22L, if I must pay some 25% extra for i10, I wouldn't. Just my VFM perspective.

Techno bhai, you need to come down to Delhi/Gurgaon to see the sheer number of Spark/UVAs that are being sold. Chevy is doing quite well in Delhi.

and frankly, about engine, that is the other thing I wanted to address - what rocket science is there in iRDE that is new? Spark is anyways more refined/silent. Yes, I agree it makes more power at lower revs (I agree i10 is more powerful, and its more apparent), but technology is still same. Its not like anything is studded with jewels!
Frankly i have never seen a VTEC or MJD or VGT studded with jewels!

As of today technologically VTEC is no great shakes! Companies like Toyota and BMW have better comparable technologies yet we see people go gaga over it!

The i10 is a success because it is a good package as a whole. Can we say that about Spark? Regarding the price, i firmly believe Hyundai make Quality cars in that segment. In a time when even Mercs face reliability issues galore why can't Hyundai charge premium for quality?

Not everyone thinks like Maruti (Sasta and Kaamchalao)!

Elito
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