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Old 23rd July 2008, 12:38   #46
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Got my hands on the kappa finally. I was the first *prospective* customer to testdrive the unfortunate car which had only about 80Kms on the odo.

Apart from the usual drive in city conditions, I drove it on the NICE road as well. For non-bangaloreans information, this is an access controlled toll road which is stuck up with legal issues, and is free to use, as of now.

The engine does rev up nicely to about 5.5-6k, after which it sounds a bit harsh. Can't give precise numbers as the tacho is small and not the easiest to read. With 3 people on board, and AC on, it was pretty easy to reach 120. I kept pushing and saw an indicated 150 as well. This is when sanity kicked in and I slowed down to 110 and I kept cruising. Cruising at 110 didn't seem to stress the engine at all. Tried a couple of lane change maneuvers at around 100 - 120 and the body roll was very evident, but it wasn't exactly scary.

As far as the city drive part is concerned, the sense of urgency with which it moves forward in 1st gear is very good. Another thing is very little drop in power when the AC is switched on.

To me, it didn't seem inferior to iRDE in any respect. I think 10K more for this engine would be money well spent.

Cheers,
Su-47

Last edited by Su-47 : 23rd July 2008 at 12:39.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 12:44   #47
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Originally Posted by indivic View Post
And we all know that Hyundai's slightly bigger engines promise more on paper than they actually perform on the road starting from Accent's 1.5,1.6 and now Verna's 1.6

I hope the Kappa series are better on the road
Well that is true for so many cars /manufacturers and that is where technological superiority comes in

i.e. Optra 1.8 or Aveo 1.6 or Palio 1.2. Though i must say I found Accent 1.6 to be a fast car!

Elito
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Old 23rd July 2008, 14:17   #48
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
Techno bhai, you need to come down to Delhi/Gurgaon to see the sheer number of Spark/UVAs that are being sold. Chevy is doing quite well in Delhi.
No need to come to Delhi, we have the figures of upto june sales here

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attach...td_june-08.jpg
Spark sold 1835 in Delhi, I10 sold 11000+
All India story also mimics a similar story. 13000 cars in 6 months in this segment can be called a flop since all others sell 40K+
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Old 23rd July 2008, 14:40   #49
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I have driven both Spark and i10 1.1. I like i10 than Spark. pick up is better and view is better.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 15:43   #50
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Note from mod: Please stick to the topic. I would like to remind everybody that this thread is about the i10. If a member wants to post his santro videos and antics, please start a new thread in Street Experiences. Any further OT posts will be handed an infraction
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Old 23rd July 2008, 16:26   #51
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Originally Posted by Su-47 View Post
Spark doesn't even come close. Its cramped, acceleration is not even close to the iRDE and the plastics reminded me of my erstwhile Safari.

This would be sad !! :( I want something peppy like Santro and free-revving like an Esteem. Seems like I am not going to get it.
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Originally Posted by Bomi View Post
Anyone driven the automatic Kappa?
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
No need to come to Delhi, we have the figures of upto june sales
i10 is backed by what might well tbe the best A.S.S in India.

I drove the 1.1 L i10. It was disappointing. I too wanted a peppy, free-revving hatchback. I expected the 1.2 (have not driven teh 1.2) would have been THE free-revving engine I was looking for. Going by reviews here I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 17:12   #52
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The i10 is a success because it is a good package as a whole. Can we say that about Spark? Regarding the price, i firmly believe Hyundai make Quality cars in that segment. In a time when even Mercs face reliability issues galore why can't Hyundai charge premium for quality?
Going OT, but I find this statement too global. I have visited Apex service center and not found a bunch of pissed customers or the kinda chaos at tata centers. Could you be specific?

That said, the downside of the new engine is the i10 Magna + ABS/airbags is out. Only Asta ABS/airbags is there. Which is at a price point of 5.2L onroad Ggn. Just above similar specced UVA. Safety again takes a backseat in entry hatchback segment.

tsk bhai: Yeah, its sold one sixth of what i10 sold, but is neither insignificant either. That ensures a reasonable number for spares/service availability. By that account, no one would've bought two wheelers like Apache RTR/Unicorn/Karizma/P180 with such logic. Or as a corollary, it sold 1/3rd of Indica, which is not a failure On a forum of enthusiasts where junta buy stuff like Cedia - or in corollary, the Safari which by your prescribed calculations ought to be labelled as a flop in front of innova!!

PS: The data has some issues. It shows zero bolero sold in uttaranchal, which is quite hard to believe!

Last edited by phamilyman : 23rd July 2008 at 17:14.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 17:50   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by navin View Post
I drove the 1.1 L i10. It was disappointing. I too wanted a peppy, free-revving hatchback. I expected the 1.2 (have not driven teh 1.2) would have been THE free-revving engine I was looking for. Going by reviews here I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer.
Wait till you see a comprehensive reivew of the Kappa i10, tested rigrorously and objectively under standard conditions.

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Originally Posted by tsk1979
Note from mod: Please stick to the topic. I would like to remind everybody that this thread is about the i10. If a member wants to post his santro videos and antics, please start a new thread in Street Experiences. Any further OT posts will be handed an infraction
Done. Kindly move all the deleted posts from this thread to the following new thread ttled "The Santro thread: Experiences, videos" under Street Experiences:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...es-videos.html
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Old 23rd July 2008, 17:51   #54
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Originally Posted by DCEite View Post
But the most important part. Price.
i10 Era IRDE is almost 80k more than similar speced Spark (LS). The question is, is the i10 IRDE worth the premium over Spark LS, taking into consideration totality of above points ? Agreed its good, but is it *that* good ? Isnt the Spark better VFM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsk1979
No need to come to Delhi, we have the figures of upto june sales.Spark sold 1835 in Delhi, I10 sold 11000+ All India story also mimics a similar story. 13000 cars in 6 months in this segment can be called a flop since all others sell 40K+
80K premium for an i10 over Spark!! Whew, that is HUGE in this price sensitive segment! And still i10 sells six times more than a spark!
a) Kudos to the Korean car maker - He has done a 'Honda City' trick in this segment - only that it is still better! See this - While Honda City has the best FE in it's class, i10 cannot boast the same.It is a close call, but Spark should win that distinction. Also a premium of 80K in this price sensitive segment is much more significant than, say, the difference between SX4 & Honda City Or the difference between Cedia and Corolla.Well, what can we say? As a customer I understand that this product may be overpriced, but my business side of the brain says- hats off to the Hyundai Marketing team
b) Equally, I should hang my head in shame if I was in the Chevrolet camp. . At this kind of price difference in this segment, if you sell one-sixth..well.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 18:43   #55
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Originally Posted by sridharps View Post
80K premium for an i10 over Spark!! Whew, that is HUGE in this price sensitive segment! And still i10 sells six times more than a spark!
a) Kudos to the Korean car maker - He has done a 'Honda City' trick in this segment - only that it is still better! See this - While Honda City has the best FE in it's class, i10 cannot boast the same.It is a close call, but Spark should win that distinction. Also a premium of 80K in this price sensitive segment is much more significant than, say, the difference between SX4 & Honda City Or the difference between Cedia and Corolla.Well, what can we say? As a customer I understand that this product may be overpriced, but my business side of the brain says- hats off to the Hyundai Marketing team
b) Equally, I should hang my head in shame if I was in the Chevrolet camp. . At this kind of price difference in this segment, if you sell one-sixth..well.
I second this opinion. GM has been spending a huge amount on their ads, with very less results
One more thing I want to add on the cost factor is that since the quality of the i10 is good they are able to export it to Europe. If they have to give a good quality car the costs also might be higher.
Other Manufacturers do not export their cars (at least not in huge nos.)& hence the quality might not be as good as the i10's, which means they can make it cheap
in other words:
Higher quality=Higher price
Lower quality= Lower price

Cheers
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Old 23rd July 2008, 21:22   #56
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Originally Posted by sridharps View Post
80K premium for an i10 over Spark!! Whew, that is HUGE in this price sensitive segment! And still i10 sells six times more than a spark!
a) Kudos to the Korean car maker - He has done a 'Honda City' trick in this segment - only that it is still better! See this - While Honda City has the best FE in it's class, i10 cannot boast the same.It is a close call, but Spark should win that distinction. Also a premium of 80K in this price sensitive segment is much more significant than, say, the difference between SX4 & Honda City Or the difference between Cedia and Corolla.Well, what can we say? As a customer I understand that this product may be overpriced, but my business side of the brain says- hats off to the Hyundai Marketing team
b) Equally, I should hang my head in shame if I was in the Chevrolet camp. . At this kind of price difference in this segment, if you sell one-sixth..well.
Wrong wrong wrong buddy!

Let me explain why! Most people have a twisted defination of the term VFM. I would define one object VFM over a competing object if it offers similar or marginally less quality/funtionality at a marked lower price.

However most people just take the cheaper car to be VFM!! Thats is ridiculous! I 'll be blunt to those people and say you are just buying a 'cheaper' product! (though that may exactly be what he/she wants or needs)

A Wagon R can be compared with a Santro NOT an i10! I mean what do people expect? That all competing cars be priced within 1000 rs of each other??

Similarly for the supposedly 80K 'premium' (spark anywaz is smaller than i10 and competes with Estilo) what you are getting is a remakably better city car (built, interiors, finishing), with a better A.S.S. and most importantly something that will hold its resale much better! AND secretly most people KNOW it! I mean we at TBHP have cried hoarse over NHC's premuim pricing yet neither Honda cares nor people stop buying it!

When people are buying a city or a i10 there are buying more than a car, they are placing thier trust in a product and brand they know will not let them down. Spark is awesome car..but GM simply does not understand indian psyche! atleast it hasn't shown any yet!

Elito

Last edited by Elito11 : 23rd July 2008 at 21:31.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 21:50   #57
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A Wagon R can be compared with a Santro NOT an i10!
Interesting thoughts! I must say. But remove the hype - I would still say that the comparison of an i10 should be done with Wagon R/Zen Estilo/Spark etc(as Phamilyman and DCEite have also pointed out and outlined the details) What Hyundai has done here is clever marketing/positioning here and created a niche. I argue on the same in this thread here and salute their efforts. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...aunched-5.html (Hyundai i10 with 1.2 engine in two months EDIT: Now Launched)
Before i10 did it, people did not think this was possible . In Marketing parlance, they addressed a "gap or a customer need which existed in the market". But it is always so easy to be wise in retrospect.

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Similarly for the supposedly 80K 'premium' (spark anywaz is smaller than i10 and competes with Estilo) what you are getting is a remakably better city car (built, interiors, finishing), with a better A.S.S. and most importantly something that will hold its resale much better
I agree. In the thread here, I have argued equally forcefully on why I bought an i10 for my parents over other cars in that segment.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...y-parents.html (Booked Hyundai i10 magna for my parents)

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I mean what do people expect? That all competing cars be priced within 1000 rs of each other??
Sorry, buddy , you are losing sense of proportion here. But I am sure you did not mean that literally. Rs.80,000 is not the same as Rs.1000.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 22:08   #58
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Interesting thoughts! I must say. But remove the hype - I would still say that the comparison of an i10 should be done with Wagon R/Zen Estilo/Spark etc(as Phamilyman and DCEite have also pointed out and outlined the details)

I disagree and there also lies my point! There is no diffrence between City and SX4 than what exists. Like ofquoted at TBHP - A city guy will buy a city and NOT SX4 a i10 buyer will buy an i10 and Not an Estilo.

As always i check my facts. The numbers back me up.


What Hyundai has done here is clever marketing/positioning here and created a niche. I argue on the same in this thread here and salute their efforts. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/indian...aunched-5.html (Hyundai i10 with 1.2 engine in two months EDIT: Now Launched)
Before i10 did it, people did not think this was possible . In Marketing parlance, they addressed a "gap or a customer need which existed in the market". But it is always so easy to be wise in retrospect.

LOL! Its time you accepted i10 IS a better product and not blame it on 'clever marketing' or need gap hogwash!



I agree. In the thread here, I have argued equally forcefully on why I bought an i10 for my parents over other cars in that segment.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/test-d...y-parents.html (Booked Hyundai i10 magna for my parents)

Sorry, buddy , you are losing sense of proportion here. But I am sure you did not mean that literally. Rs.80,000 is not the same as Rs.1000.

Ok maybe! but those 80K is still nothing compared to benefits that a i10 buyer would entail out vis a vis a spark buyer (let me point again that they are diffrent products)

And your argument would only hold water if Spark was a close competitor to i10 in terns of quality/funtionality. I see those 80k as money spent on a better product and not a premium!
Basically your premise is flawed

Elito

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Old 23rd July 2008, 22:26   #59
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Basically your premise is flawed
I agree. The Kappa i10 is a better product and in a different class from cars like Spark, Wagon R, Estilo, etc. But it is a Hyundai and this forum has voted Hyundai as the most hated car manufacturer.
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Old 23rd July 2008, 22:41   #60
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why is the spark being used as a yardstick for the i10? what about all the other cars in the segment ? do they not exist ? agreed DCEite might have zeroed in on these two, but why has the entire discussion focussed on the spark vs i10? what about its own stablemate the santro, and the competition like the zen estilo ?
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