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Old 30th August 2008, 21:36   #31
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@Shankar - i do agree with you. People who wants to degrade Tata will keep finding potholes. I haven't got the opportunity 2 test drive due to my busy schedule right now, but i had seen it closely and its indeed a good looking promising car!
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Old 30th August 2008, 22:00   #32
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Nice review Shankar. I am also trying to convince my Dad to go for the new Indica vista. Let's see if I succeed. It is one of the best packages available at that price range. We got to look at the overall package. There is no perfection in cars so got to weigh the pros and cons and indica vista at least gets an 8 out of 10.
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Old 30th August 2008, 22:24   #33
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First things first. Shankar saab, I think you're a fair and unbiased man. All I say is that maybe you're so bowled over by the vista experience that you're not nitpicking closely. I am and mind you, I have given due credit where its worth.

That said, I had the pleasure of meeting another ASM sales, tata motors, mr Sandeepan Sharma. Lovely perfect gentleman. He agreed with my observations about Dhingra, but let's not beat this drum longer That said, there are decent alternatives expected during September itself. Though he couldn't quite defend too much when I comprehensively rattled a list of reasons why I believe Tata-Fiat has hobbled the Palio MJD!!

ok finally after three attempts, I was successful in barging my way into a TD. Here are my impressions:
a. 5/5 on NVH.
b. 5+ on turning radius. This has the old palio turning radius almost. Its easily 5+ m!
c. Lovely rear seat. Very naish.
d. lovely lumbar support. Underseat space is a nice idea.
e. The bonnet open lever is still hanging from the cable. This is after the car was IN service yesterday.
f. Something no frigging reviewer has caught - the rear seat is impossible for my 5'11 head - the leg space is humongous as Tata always gives. Ofcourse airy feeling.
g. Turbo lag is little but consequently the car doesnt rocket. Personally while this is quite drivable in city, I love the MAD rush of the swift. Its wicked
h. The clutch is quite light compared to the older v2 or even the palio.
i. The plastics are still umm .. iffy?! The door knobs are from Grande, the indoor lock/latch are from safari and still as crappy.
j. The tyres are good.
k. The suspension has vastly improved from the indica - noise is muuch lesser at sane speeds. at 70+ speeds it does make grotesque noises over potholes.
l. The ice is bakwas. a sasta sony explod plus ovals gave much sexier sound in swift lxi of a cousin.
m. Maruti's claim to the lightest steering in the business is no longer applicable, although this has the trademark tata vagueness. Still no patch on palio steering
n. The pedals are all generally light.

Note from mod : excessive smileys removed

Last edited by tsk1979 : 1st September 2008 at 12:06.
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Old 31st August 2008, 03:15   #34
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@suman- thanks! thats what we are supposed to try and do as responsible members right?
@harry10- test drive it, you wont regret it- it is a good experience.
@wolg - agreed. no one in the world can claim to have attained perfection - there's always a couple of niggles likely here and there. always scope for improvement since our standards are a matter of constantly shifting goal posts. 8 on 10 is a fair rating - can even be revised to 7.5 because I wish they had offered ABS on the top end variant.
@phamilyman - points appreciated. Yes I was bowled over with surprise and pleasure and still am. Good job Tata because you deserve it for this effort! I am 6ft 2 inches tall and sat quite peacefully in the back so I dont agree about headroom at the back. I didnt note significant turbo lag though I took a couple of speed bumps by bringing the car almost to a dead halt, changing gear and carrying on. Like I said before Im even comparing its responsiveness and handling to our existing Swift Lxi.
Other points - let me only say this - essentially a good car. Nitpicking and so on is fine, but as mentioned above 7.5 to 8 on 10 rating is fair. Yes - great city car. Easy to pick it as an alternative IMO to Swift Vdi and a whole lot of other vehicles. Good pricing which will be a tipping point for many, given the features offered.

But another thing - I personally dont always buy things ONLY with my Head - I buy them with my Heart because I MUST feel an emotional engagement with an item, before I buy it. In this case, Vista has come up trumps where Swift VDi and Palio MJD/ Palio in general and the Logan left me pretty appreciative but slightly tepid. This is why I shall recommend the VISTA to everyone. Great value undoubtedly considering the need/ usage patterns and a very nice car without any further ado! While it may not be a "head turner", it is pretty good looking too. To use a slighly crude-ish analogy while this car may not be the perfect "supermodel girlfriend material" it certainly is damned decent "wife" material - you take the choice of what you want more.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 31st August 2008 at 03:29.
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Old 31st August 2008, 12:52   #35
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One let down is that the tail gate has been mentioned as very brittle.
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Old 31st August 2008, 13:09   #36
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Ok boys
Update. Dad drove it this morning with Mum in the front passenger seat.
Me behind Dad in the back seat and my wife behind mum.

1. Dad was pleased with the drive - he also feels it is streets above the present V2 DLG turbo. Loves the light steering, lack of engine sound inside, comfortable seats and light soft clutch. He likes the looks and the comfort a lot as well as the aesthetics. Liked the engine feel, handling and braking too. We tested the brakes sharply while doing about 50-60kmph. No troubles and squeaks and so on. His view of the road was uncluttered. He liked the centre console a lot. And overall feel, fit, finish and quality he pronounced himself to be pleased.
2. Mum was happy with the front passenger seat comfort/ ingress/ egress - power window switch position, seat height and general space, aesthetics, appearance and interior quality of the vehicle.
3.Wife - comfy in the back. Said lots of legroom too - cabin is almost the same size as SX4 actually.
4. Me in the back - no problems with headroom, legroom or any other issue. With my 6ft 2 inch height I was absolutely peaceful. AC throw is good, even at the rear. Music system sounds pretty ok.

The only thing I want in this top end variant before putting cash down, is for it to be offered with ABS. The test vehicle had normal wheels. The display vehicle had 5 spoke Alloys - I certainly want those!

Im very clear this is a very good car - and I shall wait till the birth of the new year before buying, because Im reasonably sure they will pop up with a couple of more improvements and additions which will be worth waiting for!

Last edited by shankar.balan : 31st August 2008 at 13:11.
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Old 31st August 2008, 14:28   #37
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Shankar, Great Review first of all.

I agree with you, Tata has got all the basics correct with the new indica. They have amplified all the goods things that were present in the old model, like looks, space, access etc and added the best CRD engine and gearbox in India to the package.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
That is a first class attitude from a manufacturer and I salute them for the same, as a consumer!

The previous Indica kept evolving throughout its lifespan. Why?

Because Tata has been fixing problems throughout !! Its great to fix problems, but I think R&D should be complete BEFORE vehicle launch, which was NOT the case in the old indica.

Selling imperfect products to paying customers is not something I would salute a manufacturer for.

I should know, I bought an Indica V2 DLE and ran it for 4 years before selling it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shankar.balan View Post
And I think I am safe in saying that no longer does one have to wait for Tatas to get things right over time,


I think I ll wait for your 6 month review on your Vista and then book my vehicle... just to be safe

All that said, I hope and pray that the Vista does not NEED to evolve/improve over time.

Last edited by AbhiJ : 31st August 2008 at 14:31.
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Old 31st August 2008, 14:57   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steeroid View Post
I think Tata should make 2 versions of each vehicle, a TL (Turbo Lag) version and an NTL (No Turbo Lag) version.

Because if they make an engine that has a turbo lag, you will complain about turbo lag.

And if they provide an engine that has no turbo lag, you will STILL complain about the lack of a 'mad rush'.



Similarly with Steering. LS (Light Steering) and NSL (Not So Light Steering) versions, please.
I think thats why tata kept the regular TDI engined version also- for the ones who want the lag

Quote:
The previous Indica kept evolving throughout its lifespan. Why?
personally, I like that , because your product doesnt age much, and you can retrofit most of the new stuff onto the older models. That way, older customers and new ones will be happy, the existing ones because instead of having to buy a new one , a few modifications would improve their car, and the newer car buyers , because you'd be getting a better car than was available a year ago.

for example the new headlamps , the new bumpers , the ones with foglamps ( never there in the V1) , the concealed tow hook, etc

same thing with the maruti 800- the coil sprung rear , better dashboard and interiors etc

I'm counting on tata for one more face lift of the current indica

Last edited by greenhorn : 31st August 2008 at 15:05.
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Old 31st August 2008, 15:24   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post

personally, I like that , because your product doesnt age much, and you can retrofit most of the new stuff onto the older models. That way, older customers and new ones will be happy, the existing ones because instead of having to buy a new one , a few modifications would improve their car, and the newer car buyers , because you'd be getting a better car than was available a year ago.
Greenhorn, I am not talking about the improvements, they are ALWAYS welcome.

I am talking about the fixes that TATA had to do. For eg. The initial problems with Shock Absorbers, the tyre eating problems(front tyres got worn quickly) , the goddawm belt squeel which was standard in most old indicas etc.
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Old 31st August 2008, 15:49   #40
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Talking only of some rough edges mainly the front door pads... I have circled the areas of concern.
Exposed steel screw.. what were they thinking.
Besides the general lack of finish the way things dont fit seemlessly.
Will post another pic which shows how badly the steering shrouds fit.
That said, there isnt much wrong with the car and for me it is the pick of the segment.

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Old 31st August 2008, 18:48   #41
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We can thank our beloved car magazines for India's new-found obsession with switch quality, cos they have nothing better to write about. They wouldn't really have the nerve to say something bad about the engine, reliability, comfort, ride quality or space, cos that would really tick the manufacturer off (apparently, the firm A4 with 18" wheels still has great ride quality )? But to maintain their supposed "unbiasedness" they have to critic something, else the review will look like an advertorial (that it actually is). Lets go after that damn switch then, shall we!

C'mon, sure I'd like a nice feeling switch. But just how important is it?! And which of it's diesel-hatch competitors offer you surreal quality? Not the Suzuki Swift I know with its rattles, weak clutches or inconsistent panel gaps! Or the Palio with its constant niggles, outdated interiors, long waiting periods (for parts) and inexistent service. Hyundai is the only manufacturer that makes true *quality* hatchbacks, but the Getz diesel comes with a price tag that goes well toward 7 lakhs, and total lack of support from the manufacturer.

The Swift hasn't exactly been trouble-free either. Vis a vis the Swift D, the Vista Quadrajet gives you:

- Acres MORE room. The Vista's rear seat is a revelation for the segment. You can seat 4 (or even 5) in a level of comfort that the Swift can only dream about.
- Far better ride quality. No Maruti (including the Dzire or SX4) can touch the Vista here
- A cheaper price tag
- The Vista feels far more sturdy than the fragile Swift
- Believe it or not, but the Vista is better refined too. Great insulation from NVH.

Net net, lets "switch" over to the more important aspects of what makes a car competitive. I wll agree that the earlier Indica's were bereft of quality and me & Steer will never see eye to eye on the Safari's quality. But the fact is, Tata have learnt a substantial lot from 10 years of building the Indica / Indigo. And the Vista has been built ground up from that collective knowledge. Let's give them credit where its due. As an owner of a Tata Indigo, my drive of the Vista convinced me that Tata has leaped two generations ahead (of the previous Indica / Indigo) with the Vista.

Last edited by GTO - Touring : 31st August 2008 at 19:03.
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Old 31st August 2008, 19:38   #42
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When will these magazine authors accept publicly that there is more to driving than cornering.
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Old 31st August 2008, 20:30   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenhorn View Post
When will these magazine authors accept publicly that there is more to driving than cornering.
...they might once the enthusiasts in this forum choose to stop "ripping"vehicles and "drive" them instead...

seriously, there is nothing wrong in testing a car's cornering abilities, but dissing a good car only because it cant corner well is unfair. how many drivers really get to corner and race their cars on a regular basis, if at all? how many actually clock 150kmph on highways? is it even possible on most stretches of highways in India?

i find comments on highway speeding very laughable in Indian car reviews.

If an individual prefers hard cornering and burning the tarmac, it is his/her prerogative to test that ability in a car, but lack of that ability cannot be a factor in bad mouthing a car.
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Old 31st August 2008, 20:54   #44
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Considering the fact that indian highways gives lot of surprises when you drive, hard cornering capability for the car and the driving style is a boon. you can imagine what will happen if you see a "take diversion" board on the edge of a good road just 5 meters from the corner itslef
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Old 31st August 2008, 21:47   #45
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flicking a car like that is quite different.That's called maneuverability

Last edited by greenhorn : 31st August 2008 at 21:48.
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