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Old 2nd February 2009, 14:53   #166
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Thanks vid6639. I've got the picture now.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 17:55   #167
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The toyota is easier to drive because of the better driveability. You can shift at less than 2000rpm and it will pull cleanly away. Whereas if you rev it to like 5500rpm or above and shift your wasting your time.
I have different opinion. I have high revved altis in and above that territory. What I felt was if you are not quick enough you are wasting time not yours but of car. The car is very quick to cross 5500 and upto 6500 and even fuel cut off. What I have felt is that there is an equal acceleration from 0 to 6500 RPM, in each gear. (Many cars 0 to 3000 is different and than from 3000 to 5000 is different and they take whole earth to reach 5000 to 6500)You have to be quick in gear change, it will reach high rev zone faster than we expect and then wait for us to change gear, or will jump over it to fuel cutoff. I think what is written in that article is correct. It is fast.

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That's where the Honda scores. If you drive the honda changing gears at 2000rpm it's nothing but sacrilege. You will get dismal performance if driven that way and the honda will feel slower than the Toyota. You have to red line a honda, feel the vtec kicking in and the engine note. That's when you feel the true performance of a honda engine.
"That's where the Honda scores" "You have to red line a honda," Ok, let me understand... Do you mean to say that from 0 to 6500 rpm Altis is better (Faster) and above 6500 RPM (Thats where red line in Altis starts)Civic is better?

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Old 2nd February 2009, 19:35   #168
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Originally Posted by Ym-enjn View Post
I have different opinion. I have high revved altis in and above that territory. What I felt was if you are not quick enough you are wasting time not yours but of car. The car is very quick to cross 5500 and upto 6500 and even fuel cut off. What I have felt is that there is an equal acceleration from 0 to 6500 RPM, in each gear. (Many cars 0 to 3000 is different and than from 3000 to 5000 is different and they take whole earth to reach 5000 to 6500)You have to be quick in gear change, it will reach high rev zone faster than we expect and then wait for us to change gear, or will jump over it to fuel cutoff. I think what is written in that article is correct. It is fast.
The altis just touches 6000rpm before the rev limiter cuts in. After 5000rpm the altis feels strained. You feel it is equal because it just makes that much more noise. The altis reaches the red line faster because the red line is lower than the civic's. The civic rev's till 7000rpm. Past 3500rpm to the redline the civic is sublime. It does not break a sweat, reaches the redline in no time and you don't even realise it till you look at the tacho because the engine is so smooth and refined.

You need to drive an OHC, Civic or Accord for some time to realise how good the honda V-tec engine really is.

How many times have you red-lined the Altis? If it was a honda you wouldn't remember that.

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"That's where the Honda scores" "You have to red line a honda," Ok, let me understand... Do you mean to say that from 0 to 6500 rpm Altis is better (Faster) and above 6500 RPM (Thats where red line in Altis starts)Civic is better?
I mean from 0-4500rpm the Altis is evenly matched with the Civic. After that the Honda v-tec is on it's own.

ps: I don't own a honda or a Toyota but have driven both a few times. Though in the very near future, will be getting one of these cars. No prizes for guessing which one.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 21:26   #169
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I haven't hit the highway yet, but in city the car is happy to go over 100kmph without effort, every now and then, and I know it when I look at speedo, otherwise it just feels like 60 or 70. In other cars I have driven the roads seems to be too short to reach 100 (including Civic Auto and my ford Ikon).

There is a flyover on my regular way from gym for which I have to take a U turn to get on it, a busy big road. After the U-turn on the climb my initial speed is almost 0. Within seconds, believe me, very fast, its 80kmph (effortless) and I can see whole trafic way behind me. I don't high rev either there because the current average drops between 2 and 4 kmpl.
Ym-enjn, from your posts here and the ones you made previously it's obvious you love revving the car.

BTW, I just got the front brake pads replaced under warranty (no more screeches) and the engine oil changed @2050 kms, which I've always done post running-in with all my cars.

Rgds,

Last edited by R2D2 : 2nd February 2009 at 21:27.
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Old 2nd February 2009, 23:29   #170
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In addition to the iVTEC, the Civic also has a 2 stage intake, but that does not seem to help with the weak bottom end which is a traditional Honda weakness.
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Ym-enjn, from your posts here and the ones you made previously it's obvious you love revving the car.
..and considering this fact, you should have really bought the Civic instead.

Vid, there is still some confusion about the engine. Somewhere I read that the Indian Corolla comes with the older engine!!
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Old 2nd February 2009, 23:40   #171
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Vid, there is still some confusion about the engine. Somewhere I read that the Indian Corolla comes with the older engine!!
Yup, the Altis in India comes with the same old engine, the 1ZZ-FE. There are few ECU tweaks and it has drive by wire. The engine is only a single VVT-i engine which has VVT-i only on one of the sides either intake or exhaust. But this is not just for India. Even in Malaysia and Thailand they are offering only the 1ZZ-FE.

The newer 2ZR-FE features Dual VVT-i.
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Old 3rd February 2009, 07:59   #172
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..and considering this fact, you should have really bought the Civic instead.
He absolutely hates how the Civic looks.
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Old 3rd February 2009, 09:01   #173
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this is turning out to be thread on war Between Toyota and Honda.(we all know who won ^_^)
Now i Must say with pleasure to the mods please stick to the topic!!!
On topic- Is there any news of the Diesel altis? some sites say the innova's engine might make it,some the yaris's engine may.

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Old 3rd February 2009, 23:40   #174
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Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Yup, the Altis in India comes with the same old engine, the 1ZZ-FE. There are few ECU tweaks and it has drive by wire. The engine is only a single VVT-i engine which has VVT-i only on one of the sides either intake or exhaust. But this is not just for India. Even in Malaysia and Thailand they are offering only the 1ZZ-FE.

The newer 2ZR-FE features Dual VVT-i.
In the 1ZZ-FE VVT-i offers VVT only on the intake valve. And as you rightly pointed out the 2ZR-FE offers dual VVT-i. From a technology point of view the Civic's engine is better offering VVT on both intake and exhaust a feature that can at least partially explain it's high rev loving nature.

However it is also important to note that the Altis' version of the 1ZZ-FE engine has more power (97 KW/132 PS, as much as the Civic) and better fuel efficiency than the 9G's engine. Fuel efficiency and low end (torque) responsiveness in the Altis is noticeably better than the Civic. Both engines have their strong points and choices will differ.

PS - The 1ZZ-FE engine option is offered in SE Asia and India. I read the Pakistani and Sri Lankan versions have the 2ZR engine.

Rgds,

Last edited by R2D2 : 3rd February 2009 at 23:42.
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Old 4th February 2009, 13:07   #175
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PS - The 1ZZ-FE engine option is offered in SE Asia and India. I read the Pakistani and Sri Lankan versions have the 2ZR engine.
Rgds,
Golly, this is news indeed! This is the first time I am hearing that our neighbouring countries have advanced models compared to ours. Considering the volume of cars sold in India vis-a-vis Pak or S.L., I think Toyota needs to re-think its strategy.
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Old 4th February 2009, 13:12   #176
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Golly, this is news indeed! This is the first time I am hearing that our neighbouring countries have advanced models compared to ours. Considering the volume of cars sold in India vis-a-vis Pak or S.L., I think Toyota needs to re-think its strategy.
The corolla is one of the most common cars in Pakistan. It outsells the civic by a huuuuuuuuge number.
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Old 4th February 2009, 13:25   #177
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Originally Posted by R2D2 View Post
In the 1ZZ-FE VVT-i offers VVT only on the intake valve. And as you rightly pointed out the 2ZR-FE offers dual VVT-i. From a technology point of view the Civic's engine is better offering VVT on both intake and exhaust a feature that can at least partially explain it's high rev loving nature.
The Civic's R18A does not have VTEC on both intake and exhaust. It's VTEC system is not like the systems on Honda's enthusiast engines. This TOVA article provides some insight.
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Old 4th February 2009, 20:21   #178
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The Civic's R18A does not have VTEC on both intake and exhaust. It's VTEC system is not like the systems on Honda's enthusiast engines. This TOVA article provides some insight.
Hey thanks Immortalz. I stand corrected. Always thought i-VTEC had VVT on both intake and exhaust no matter what type of engine. Any ideas why the Altis could be more fuel efficient?

Rgds.
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Old 4th February 2009, 20:25   #179
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Originally Posted by vnabhi View Post
Golly, this is news indeed! This is the first time I am hearing that our neighbouring countries have advanced models compared to ours. Considering the volume of cars sold in India vis-a-vis Pak or S.L., I think Toyota needs to re-think its strategy.
I know its easy to feel shortchanged when you are given an older engine model. But US 10G owners have faced oil consumption issues that were fixed by a ECU software fix. In a way its a new engine and bound to have some teething problems. So looking at the bright side, the 1ZZ-FE is a tried and trusted motor.

Rgds,
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Old 4th February 2009, 20:59   #180
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Hey thanks Immortalz. I stand corrected. Always thought i-VTEC had VVT on both intake and exhaust no matter what type of engine. Any ideas why the Altis could be more fuel efficient?

Rgds.
High revving motor in lieu of low end torque is what spoils the R18A's figures in my view. The same car in a higher state of tune gets higher mileage in Japan (16-17KMPL), so I'm guessing they designed it for Japanese 100 octane fuel as well (with an even higher compression ratio = more efficiency). The Altis doesn't need to be revved as much for city driving, which translates to better fuel economy.
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