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Old 21st November 2008, 16:28   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Maybe this should make it clearer:

http://i216.photobucket.com/albums/c...o/DSC_0117.jpg

http://img288.imageshack.us/img288/4821/l4cl.jpg

http://www.gtrblog.com/media/blogs/g...ld-mcr-003.jpg

Its not a switch thats needs to be searched. Its more like two levers behind the stearing. When you turn, your hands too turn the steering so you still have access to the paddle shift. Its not stupid at all and no one is searching. What I suggest is you go test drive a car with paddle shift. Most cars have paddle shifts that move with the steering and its pretty common to have this setup.
I'm not even willing to read after reading your line "When you turn, your hands too turn the steering...". It cannot be a worth reading if that is the kind of logic that is applying.

When I turn, I never care to hold in the same position where I was holding before the turn, nor do I care how much the steering wheel has rotated. Just keep doing until I get desired turning effect on the road, wherever I'm holding, after a self loose release or after a honk press or indicator or flash a light beam or wiper switch access. We cannot just keep following a switch after all this.

Edited:
Sorry I didn't see your last post and thus I questioned further above.
But honestly, many people don't shift even manual gears during turns. Many people are not even capable of a following a zig zag curve without violating lane and without turbulent swerves on highways. Just not experienced enough to handle steering in general in India.

Last edited by opendro : 21st November 2008 at 16:34.
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Old 21st November 2008, 17:09   #347
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It's a personal choice but most cars that come with paddle shifts have it moving with the steering.

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 21st November 2008 at 17:15.
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Old 21st November 2008, 17:32   #348
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It is a matter of getting used to it IMHO. My Civic's an AT and once you start using the paddles exclusively, you'll have a sense of where the paddles are.

However, one thing I think is worth mentioning is that on the highways where you'll be actually using the S mode, there are very limited situations where you need to frantically change gear while having the steering flying from lock to lock. Of course, twisty hill roads are a different matter.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the normal D and S modes have a lot of intelligence built in. The gear changes happen based on how far the accelerator is pressed, how quickly you press it and something called Grade Logic Control which holds the engine in a lower gear when on steep inclines for better hill climbing torque and increased engine braking when going down steep inclines.
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Old 21st November 2008, 19:42   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendro View Post

Edited:
Sorry I didn't see your last post and thus I questioned further above.
But honestly, many people don't shift even manual gears during turns. Many people are not even capable of a following a zig zag curve without violating lane and without turbulent swerves on highways. Just not experienced enough to handle steering in general in India.
I would normally associate the paddle shifts to an enthusiast. In fact, when I test drove the Fiesta 1.6s recently, I found myself downshifting even in the midst of the corner. So for most people who would be driving the AT, you would imagine driving the car enthusiastically. And this arrangement DOES come in the way, IMO.

BH.
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Old 21st November 2008, 20:38   #350
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Originally Posted by vid6639 View Post
Sorry to break the bubble but the Mitsubishi Outlander's paddle shifts do not turn with the steering. It makes a huge difference. When turned 180 degrees you still know which gear is up and down rather than trying to see. Compared to the Civic this is the first thing which struck me on the outlander.

This is the same case with Ferrari's as well.
Hey,

That's great. Way to go Mitsu!
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Old 21st November 2008, 21:23   #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
Aseem,

May be - the steering mounted paddles work well in F1 like situation where the lock to lock turn of the steering is not big, and hence paddles don't move much!
Cheers,
Anand
hi,
lock to lock turn of steering in F1 is almost twice that of normal cars. if you can watch the video of an F1 car turning at the Loews / Grand Hotel hairpin at monaco you will know what i mean.

Last edited by f50xj13 : 21st November 2008 at 21:30. Reason: l
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Old 21st November 2008, 21:36   #352
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Originally Posted by f50xj13 View Post
hi,
lock to lock turn of steering in F1 is almost twice that of normal cars. if you can watch the video of an F1 car turning at the Loews / Grand Hotel hairpin at monaco you will know what i mean.
I am not sure if that is correct about the modern F1 cars.

Check: The Official Formula 1 Website

It says "The steering wheels are not designed to make more than three quarters of a turn of lock in total, so there is no need for a continuous rim, instead there are just two 'cut outs' for the driver's hands."

So it is 270 degrees on either side, as I understood from F1 official site and that was my thinking too. And why not, just think of the carts you normally drive. So it is less than 1.5 turns to turn the wheels from extreme left to extreme right.

And for the ones we normally drive around, it can be as high as 3-4.5 turns. Check: Power Steering Services, Inc.
It is not a great reference and may not be true in all cases. But only to demostrate the difference.

BH.

Last edited by BurningHeart : 21st November 2008 at 21:49.
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Old 21st November 2008, 21:57   #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by opendro View Post
I'm not even willing to read after reading your line "When you turn, your hands too turn the steering...". It cannot be a worth reading if that is the kind of logic that is applying.

When I turn, I never care to hold in the same position where I was holding before the turn, nor do I care how much the steering wheel has rotated. Just keep doing until I get desired turning effect on the road, wherever I'm holding, after a self loose release or after a honk press or indicator or flash a light beam or wiper switch access. We cannot just keep following a switch after all this.

Edited:
Sorry I didn't see your last post and thus I questioned further above.
But honestly, many people don't shift even manual gears during turns. Many people are not even capable of a following a zig zag curve without violating lane and without turbulent swerves on highways. Just not experienced enough to handle steering in general in India.
Here is a great youtube video of onboard cam view of guy driving MCR R35 with paddle shifts on a hill station. You can see him negotiating the turns while changing gears.



Now not unless you take a steep turn (u turn or sharp bend) and are hell bent on extracting the max out of the car (mind you the car downshifts by itself in semi-auto mode), you should be fine. Rather it was that paddle shifts were slower, inconvinient, etc. most companies would have stopped development on this platform. As previously stated its a personal choice. I quite like the paddle shift, to each his own.
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Old 21st November 2008, 21:59   #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningHeart View Post
I am not sure if that is correct about the modern F1 cars.

Check: The Official Formula 1 Website

It says "The steering wheels are not designed to make more than three quarters of a turn of lock in total, so there is no need for a continuous rim, instead there are just two 'cut outs' for the driver's hands."

So it is 270 degrees on either side, as I understood from F1 official site and that was my thinking too. And why not, just think of the carts you normally drive. So it is less than 1.5 turns to turn the wheels from extreme left to extreme right.

And for the ones we normally drive around, it can be as high as 3-4.5 turns. Check: Power Steering Services, Inc.
It is not a great reference and may not be true in all cases. But only to demostrate the difference.

BH.
New Honda City has 3.5 lock to lock for f1 car its. For F1 car its 1.5 to 2 turns lock to lock or 270 degrees as per hits in google.

Last edited by aseem : 21st November 2008 at 22:17.
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Old 21st November 2008, 22:23   #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aseem View Post
New Honda City has 3.5 lock to lock for f1 car its. For F1 car its 1.5 to 2 turns lock to lock or 270 degrees as per hits in google.
aseem,
You didn't really mean to reply me, did you? It was meant for f50xj13, i suppose?

BH.
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Old 21st November 2008, 22:25   #356
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Quote:
So it is 270 degrees on either side, as I understood from F1 official site and that was my thinking too. And why not, just think of the carts you normally drive. So it is less than 1.5 turns to turn the wheels from extreme left to extreme right.

And for the ones we normally drive around, it can be as high as 3-4.5 turns. Check: Power Steering Services, Inc.
It is not a great reference and may not be true in all cases. But only to demostrate the difference.
The 3-4 turns is provided on normal cars so that it helps the driver park/turn the car in tight spaces.

When you drive on a track or even on winding roads, you use a lot less steering angle.

An F1 steering may need only 1.5 turns from lock to lock, but at the same time the change in wheel angle from lock to lock is also much lower than on a road car. So it's not like you can turn an F1 car in a tight space or even make a sharp U turn using the 1.5 turns it comes with.

I dont know how many have seen the vid where tiff needell test drives the Enzo and the Mclaren F1 LM. While the Enzo easily makes the 90 deg turn at the main gate, the LM gets stuck (since it comes with a racing lock).



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Old 21st November 2008, 22:44   #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shan2nu View Post
The 3-4 turns is provided on normal cars so that it helps the driver park/turn the car in tight spaces.

When you drive on a track or even on winding roads, you use a lot less steering angle.

An F1 steering may need only 1.5 turns from lock to lock, but at the same time the change in wheel angle from lock to lock is also much lower than on a road car. So it's not like you can turn an F1 car in a tight space or even make a sharp U turn using the 1.5 turns it comes with.

I dont know how many have seen the vid where tiff needell test drives the Enzo and the Mclaren F1 LM. While the Enzo easily makes the 90 deg turn at the main gate, the LM gets stuck (since it comes with a racing lock).

Shan2nu
Shan2nu,

I agree and that would be the case. I was only trying to correct someone who said that F1 cars have twice the turn-to-turn figures compared to a road going car.

I am already convinced of what I wrote.

BH.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 02:22   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BurningHeart View Post
Shan2nu,

I agree and that would be the case. I was only trying to correct someone who said that F1 cars have twice the turn-to-turn figures compared to a road going car.

I am already convinced of what I wrote.

BH.
i stand corrected. however my point was that F1 drivers do not face problems in paddle shift not rotating.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 10:52   #359
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Quote:
i stand corrected. however my point was that F1 drivers do not face problems in paddle shift not rotating.
Im not too sure about that. Even though Ferrari road cars have non-rotating paddles, their F1 wheel seems to have the paddles fixed to the steering.

Photo from Reuters Pictures - Daylife

BMW steering -

Shan2nu

Last edited by Shan2nu : 22nd November 2008 at 10:56.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 11:50   #360
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There's a reason for that. Do you know how many turns lock to lock a F1 steering takes?

Compare that to the road car and you will have the reason. Also in F1 have you ever seen the driver taking a sharp turn. They do not have to take their hands of the wheel for any turn since the steering turns only so much. Try turning lock to lock on your road car with both hands on the wheel full time.
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