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Old 22nd November 2008, 12:29   #361
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Originally Posted by anandpadhye View Post
The only problem (for me) with Honda's paddle shifers is - unlike the wiper and headlight levers, the paddles turn with the steering. That's ridiculous - makes it difficult to swiftly upshift/downshift on winding roads - something that I am very fond of in my manual...
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Originally Posted by opendro View Post
I didn't know that (my ignorance, not seen the car). I agree. That is indeed ridiculous and useless.
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Originally Posted by opendro View Post
Can you throw some light why you say so? And why dont the light and wiper switches turn? It is definitely stupid to me to search for the switch everytime I need to use it.
Now, that's really ridiculous. When i do a sharp cornering or a U turn, i will have to remember how many turns i made on the steering wheel to know which side the downshifter is and which side the upshifter?

Imagine you made half turn of the steering wheel and you will have to go to the right end of the steering to tap the paddles....cumbersome and confusing

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Originally Posted by aseem View Post
Its not a switch thats needs to be searched. Its more like two levers behind the stearing. When you turn, your hands too turn the steering so you still have access to the paddle shift. Its not stupid at all and no one is searching. What I suggest is you go test drive a car with paddle shift. Most cars have paddle shifts that move with the steering and its pretty common to have this setup.
Most of the people use only one hand on the steering wheel, even which turning. It's far more comfortable that way. And i don't focus on how many turn i make with the wheel, but rather focus on the road, and keep adjusting my input to the wheel based on where the car is heading to.

Now the problem with the paddles moving with the wheel is, i will have to focus on the steering wheel to remember the position of the paddles compromising my attention on the road. Doesn't sound like a clever design.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 13:56   #362
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There's a reason for that. Do you know how many turns lock to lock a F1 steering takes?

Compare that to the road car and you will have the reason. Also in F1 have you ever seen the driver taking a sharp turn. They do not have to take their hands of the wheel for any turn since the steering turns only so much. Try turning lock to lock on your road car with both hands on the wheel full time.
U need full lock only when you're parking your car.

Watch the vid below. This guy is driving a road car on Nurburgring, which is like one of the most demanding tracks with both fast and slow corners. Tell me if he uses full lock at any given point. Also, watch his hand position on the steering, he keeps them very close to where the paddles are generally situated (even though he need not do it since this is a stick shift).

That is how you're supposed to hold the steering when you drive for performance and if you're not used to driving like this, you're better off driving a regular A/T.



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Old 22nd November 2008, 13:57   #363
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Originally Posted by oss View Post


Now the problem with the paddles moving with the wheel is, i will have to focus on the steering wheel to remember the position of the paddles compromising my attention on the road. Doesn't sound like a clever design.
But as aseem said - you get used to it in no time
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Old 22nd November 2008, 14:15   #364
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@Shan2nu, videos are ok but they don't mean much in this case. We don't drive on track, we drive in city traffic where you need to be in 1st 2nd and 3rd and constantly take sharp turns.

I drove the civic and realised the best thing to do is wait till you bring the wheel back to straight position then shift up or down.

Anyways good driving practice is not to shift while turning but be in the right gear before the turn so both ways is not a problem.

My personal choice though is fixed paddles. I guess it depends on what you think is comfortable which is what is important.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 14:21   #365
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Drove the G3HC for about 2 kms yesterday.

A bigger and longer TD + Review Coming up shortly.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 14:21   #366
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Anyways good driving practice is not to shift while turning but be in the right gear before the turn so both ways is not a problem.
Thats what i was saying. Its just a matter of choice. It's not a useless design, it's just diff from what you're used to.

I dont have a prob with stick shift, fixed paddles or rotating paddles coz my driving style suites all 3 designs.

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Old 22nd November 2008, 15:21   #367
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I prefer fixed paddles too. I drove the Passat V6 two years back and hated the paddles moving with the steering. On curves, exiting / entering freeways, it gets very cumbersome.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 16:24   #368
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Originally Posted by ImmortalZ View Post
there are very limited situations where you need to frantically change gear while having the steering flying from lock to lock. Of course, twisty hill roads are a different matter.
Off topic further. But I don't agree that there are very limited situations. In daily city commute itself, you try to smoothly drive on a curve or turn smoothly in the junction, and suddenly the car ahead of you slows down or somebody from some direction disturbs your way a little bit or pedestrians walk here and there in those curvy crowded roads, you need to change the gear now and then for the sudden slowing and speeding. It would be real pain if we have to follow the switch every now and then.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 16:51   #369
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But I don't agree that there are very limited situations. In daily city commute itself, you try to smoothly drive on a curve or turn smoothly in the junction, and suddenly the car ahead of you slows down or somebody from some direction disturbs your way a little bit or pedestrians walk here and there in those curvy crowded roads, you need to change the gear now and then for the sudden slowing and speeding. It would be real pain if we have to follow the switch every now and then.
Y use the paddle shifts in such situations, im sure the City must be having an A/T mode as well, just slot it into auto mode and let the electronics do everything. Switch back to paddles when you want to drive for performance.

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Old 22nd November 2008, 17:08   #370
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Originally Posted by opendro View Post
Off topic further. But I don't agree that there are very limited situations. In daily city commute itself, you try to smoothly drive on a curve or turn smoothly in the junction, and suddenly the car ahead of you slows down or somebody from some direction disturbs your way a little bit or pedestrians walk here and there in those curvy crowded roads, you need to change the gear now and then for the sudden slowing and speeding. It would be real pain if we have to follow the switch every now and then.
If suddenly slowing the car automatically downshifts, you dont have to engage the paddle shift to downshift the gear in sudden deccerlation. Also the car CPU wont allow you to downshift if you are in very high speed and suddenly downshift to a lower gear if it senses it can damage the car. For eg, if wont let you downshift to 2nd at 120 kmph. Unless you brake or reduce the speed.
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Old 22nd November 2008, 17:39   #371
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Looks like this thread is getting too focused on “paddle shift”
Mods, may be a separate thread should be carved out to debate on paddle shift, fixed, rotating, stick shift and other variants used.

Now my 2 cents:
Most of the problems with rotating paddles are around when one has to unpredictably downshift in turns, traffic etc. But note that all automatics do this downshift on its own even is S or manual modes. So this is something not to worry about. And as mentioned, this is more of getting used to. But I do not subscribe the comparisons to F1 vehicles, the cars are very different from street cars, the turns to lock ratios are much lesser and even the steering is not fully circular.
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Old 23rd November 2008, 14:29   #372
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I did the test drive today. Both MT and AT version. I could drive around 8km in MT and 4km in AT. It was great. I'm not good in comparing things. I just did a test drive a normal driver, not for testing any particular area. I'll try to explain some of the items what I felt...
I reached Whitefield Honda for a test drive at 11.30AM. I felt, it was closed, just thought of going to Dakshin Honda. But, I thought of checking with the security, they said, it's open and there are people inside. Only thing is, front doors and gate is locked. (No idea why...??)
I got a red test drive vehicle. It's meter showed, 240km till today. I sat on the driver seat. I adjusted the seat height and started driving.
When I saw the demo car when it came, I felt, I need to put the driver seat to the max height. And I put it almost in the highest position. If I put it in the top position, my head will reach the roof. Anyway, I adjusted the seat in the first one kilometer and I found, even the lowest height, I was comfortable. After that, I have driven in the lowest position.
(let me see some 2-3 overs of cricket now. The first ball is going to be bowled now)
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Old 23rd November 2008, 14:59   #373
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ok, back to work...
One major thing I tested is the ground clearance. I read, lot of people talking about the ground clearance and I purposefully went on top of a big hump with 3 people inside (2 in the front and one back) without really stopping and taking it slowly. Not sure how fast I was, but normally, I don't take my WagonR that fast in that kind of hump.. To my surprise, nothing happened. The body didn't touch the hump at all. They explained there are some changes in the suspension which makes this possible... (i don't know the technical side of this)
Another thing was about the clutch. But, later I tried to remember how tough or easy was the clutch, I am not able to recollect it now. Hope, it was very easy to manage. The view is excellent. Only thing I felt difficult was entering in the car in Driver's seat. Some kind of difficulty I felt. May be the steering wheel was blocking my leg to get inside easily or the reduced height of the seat, I am not sure.
Break was too good (for a driver who was driving WagonR for long). I have driven upto 120km/hr in outer ring road near Marathahalli. (I know difficult to believe, but remember, today is Sunday and the entire crowd is near Chinnaswamy Stadium:-) )
The other thing I was worried or no information about was the FE. I checked in the beginning, it showed 10.7 as avg mileage. I asked them, it will be not less than 12. What they expect is, 12-14 in City and 15-17 in Highway...
By the end of the test drive, it showed, 11kmpl. (I mean, after 8km of test drive)
I asked when can I expect AT test drive, they said, next week. But, when I called Dakshin Honda, they said, they have one TD vehicle in Lavelle Road. So, I headed to there. When I reach MG Road, I can see the crowd near the stadium with lot of Indian Flags everywhere. Anyway, not much of traffic to reach the dealer.
They got one white car for test drive. I started with D mode and I tried to understand the paddle shift from the guy who came with me. (I already have some idea from this thread by that time) After driving almost 1 km, I asked him, whether to stop it for changing to S mode. He said, no need, and I changed to S mode while driving at around 40kmph. In AT mode, I couldn't drive more than 40kmph because of the traffic near that area. I think I couldn't make use of the paddle shift properly, may be because of the unawareness of the usage. I was using both the left and right paddle shift, but I felt, every time, it was not changing to different gear. Somehow, I'm not able to make any judgement on that. The sales guy told me to put it in D mode as it will be easy to drive, I put it and finished my drive.
This guy also said the same thing about the ground clearance without asking him. He said, because of the suspension and the increased wheel base, the car is more stronger than the old city and the chances of touching the body on the ground will be less... I don't know the truth..
I think that's all I can share. I am waiting for a detailed TD reviews to compare with my understandings...
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Old 23rd November 2008, 20:22   #374
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Had been to Honda showroom today. My 3rd visit and still could not lay hands on TD vehicle. Vehicle was available, but apparently managers were not available to give gate pass etc. But unlike previous visits this time could fully check out the display vehicles. Most of it has been said, so let me limit myself to some specifics that I observed.

Tires: much has been talked about the skinny ones, the under sizing is quite visible too. But I found Michelin energy – confirmed with the sales guy that all vehicles come with that only.
Back seat: in addition to poor thigh support, I found that the seat width is small that gives an illusion of bigger leg space. In fact the width is like that of smaller cars – wonder how Honda can call this C+! But one good thing I found is that below the back seat there is lot of space – good for those who want to fold legs back. Also I was told that an under seat tray will be available as an accessory.
Fuel tank is below front seats – so for those who stretch your feet, it is an impediment.
Front seats: leg space ok. Glove box hits knee. Felt that gear & handbrake position a bit too back for comfort – anyhow only driving will say
Dashboard and interiors: cheap looking interiors has been talked about. Even the Civic ka steering felt like a imitation!
Under the hood: very compact engine with lots of space around for whatever the design feature it is. Absence of underbody cover gives a hollow feeling. Started the engine and found it smooth and silent.
Boot: spacious, but the boot lid opening is relatively small. So what good is the big boot if you can push in a carton or big suitcase?
Audio: even though expectation on stock is meager, it was below average quality.

Learnt that Honda has a huge list of must have accessories – price list is not yet available, but was told that alloys are approximately 12K+ each. Below is list of complete accessories.

Front Grille – chrome strip with Honda logo on top of black honeycomb
Trunk Spoiler – lip spoiler with Honda logo
Under body spoiler/skirts – available for front, back and sides
Alloy wheels 15” – 14 spokes (7 V shapes) - looks good
Door Sash Molding – in chrome around the glass
Door Visors – black
Rear Fog light
Exhaust pipe cover – chrome
Fog lights – available in 2 types; one that fits on bumper with a garnish and other that goes on the underbody skirts
Mud guards – black (not sure if can be body color painted)
Bumper protectors – front and rear
Side protector – door moldings
Reverse Sensor – body colored
Side step garnish – for front with illumination
Side step garnish – for rear without illumination
Door panels – for interior with wooden finish similar to Zx
Foot light – some light besides the pedals (dunno what’s great!)
Dashboard panels – with wooden finish and LED illumination etc.
Sporty Pedals – for AT only)
CD player – compatible with integrated audio
Seat covers – available in 1 color (beige) and 2 color (beige black)
Under seat tray – for rear seat.

So far all delivaries have been without any of the above accessories.
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Old 23rd November 2008, 20:56   #375
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Originally Posted by Path_Finder View Post
Front Grille – chrome strip with Honda logo on top of black honeycomb
Trunk Spoiler – lip spoiler with Honda logo
Fog lights – available in 2 types; one that fits on bumper with a garnish
Bumper protectors – front and rear
Side protector – door moldings
Door panels – for interior with wooden finish similar to Zx
Dashboard panels – with wooden finish and LED illumination etc.
CD player – compatible with integrated audio
Seat covers – available in 1 color (beige) and 2 color (beige black)
They told me, body colored grille is available. Some Duck Tail Spoiler also available, but didn't see anything.

Can you please give some other details about the accessories?
Do they tell you anything about the price of the fog lamps?
How good will be to fix Bumper Protectors and side protectors? Both look wise and scratch safety wise?
What exactly is this door panels and Dashboard panels with wooden finish? Is it worth fixing it?
They told me, CD player can not be fixed. But, I read, many are saying, it can be fixed. If that's the case, I would like to fix my CD player which is in my current car.
The sales guy told me, if I fix the Alloy Wheels from outside, the warranty is void. Hope, that's not the case. :-)
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