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Old 20th November 2008, 20:57   #16
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PLEASE stay above 2000 RPM or below 1500 rpm etc. See my discussions in the FE thread. The turbocharger has been given for a reason.

Maha congrats on a Palio!

Last edited by phamilyman : 20th November 2008 at 21:01.
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Old 20th November 2008, 21:39   #17
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Bubby, congrats on your new car. Palio is a great acquisition.
On run-in, I do not think you to stick so low as 1600-1700rpm. Up to 2500 should be fine! You should let the turbo on get on at times.

Where are the pics?
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Old 21st November 2008, 00:21   #18
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CAD ji,

Vista crawls at 5-6kph in 2nd gear? My swift won't do anything less than 18-20 in 2nd, 10 kph in first. Sure you didnt miss a digit?
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Old 21st November 2008, 09:16   #19
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Originally Posted by DueLLeR View Post
We motorheads tend to "over do" the running in process and end up with a sluggish vehicle. To put in simple words, accelarate smoothly (not too slow, not too hard) like you would do in an already run-in vehicle while driving normally, but stick to the upper limit of 2k. Most people afraid of ruining their engines, accelarate slowly during run-in, which delays the mating of the parts and results in a relatively sluggish engine.
Hi DueLLer... this really helps in my understanding of running-in period... even i thought the same... running-in is more like getting the car ready for what it will face day on and day out.
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Old 21st November 2008, 09:50   #20
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Originally Posted by crn12 View Post
How are you saying the KE is directly proportional to FE (loss of KE = Loss of FE) Pls explain
Hey crn12... Thanks for the transcript and the useful information...

I never new that the Palio comes with an Teflon and Anti-rust... before its delivered to you... thats a great news as i was planning to get the same done this weekend.

Regarding KE loss = FE loss... well thats true... there is complete physics involved around this... use less brakes and you will yourself see the FE increasing a your vehicle... a few tips...

At times you can from a distance see the red signal and you know you will have to stop, so avoid accelerating towards the red light, as if you are accellerating towards it you will have brake harder as compared to when you approach it with an optimised speed. In short... optimise the acceleration as per the need.

On a highway... a single lane one specifically... generally when people do overtaking they tend to almost reach at the tail end of the vehicle a high speeds and brake hard and then look for space... however, this is how it should be done, when you a see that you are approaching an vehicle slow down, let engine help in slowing you down rather then the brakes... in the meanwhile look for an oppurtunity and rocket away from the vehicle in front without using brakes.

These above are like very practical... they are not fairy tale... this can be regimed easily with a little effort and a little change in driving style.

Try this out... and see the diffrence... make it a point that you will try and use less brakes, dont accelerate where it not needed, as accelerating where its not needed will always result in braking.

I hope you understood what i tried to convey.
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Old 21st November 2008, 10:22   #21
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Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
errrr...i am afraid that went over my head...the real world is usually different from a physics text book.

there is no connection between torque and braking. in bumper to bumper traffic if the car in front of you stops, you have to brake - irrespective of the torque of the car. simple.
Hello CAD...

All that i have at this moment is a big , its a nice discission that we are having here.

You are correct in saying that with higher torque you can crusie in bumper to bumper traffic, there are to things, one thing is cruise and the other thing is stop-go-stop-go-stop-go-stop-go and in this stop go scenario you will have to use more clutch then the brake to stop and run the car, and the more clutch and brake you use lesser is the FE.

You said... in bumper to bumper traffic if the car in front of you stops, you have to brake - irrespective of the torque of the car... very true you have top brake, but the thing that you look here is that, at what speed have you approached the car in front... there is lot if difference when you brake from 15-20kmph to zero and when you brake from 05-10kmph to zero in bumper to bumper scenario.

If there are two parallel cars in the same traffic ( bumper to bumper )...

The car that approaches the car in front at 15-20kmph will give you lesser FE then compared to car which approaches the car in front at 05-10kmph.

Again all because of KE loss... you will brake slightly harder when coming from 20kmph to 0kmph then coming down from 10kmph to 0kmph.

I hope you are enjoying this discussion we are having here.

Cheers !
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Old 21st November 2008, 10:27   #22
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Congratulations,

So you have taken the plunge! Please read through my Service experience and Avoid Vivek Automobiles for Service (no prizes for guessing where to go, in case you read the thread throroughly ).
I know it has to be SAMYAK... SAMYAK... SAMYAK... and SAMYAK or may be Elegant Cars ( i think both are the same Samyak and Elegant )

Also Archi.. I never knew that Palio comes with Teflon and Anti Trust treatment before its delivered to you. I hope you knew it...
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Old 21st November 2008, 12:15   #23
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Originally Posted by Path_Finder View Post
Bubby, congrats on your new car. Palio is a great acquisition.
On run-in, I do not think you to stick so low as 1600-1700rpm. Up to 2500 should be fine! You should let the turbo on get on at times.

Where are the pics?
Hello Path_Finder... thanks for the thought, i will now for sure try to go beyond 2000rpm and use the turbo... but 2000+rpm in 5th gear on MJD would mean 80+.. is that ok for a 2 day old baby.

Please suggest.
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Old 21st November 2008, 12:21   #24
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Originally Posted by Palio_2005 View Post
Hi Bubby,

Fiat cars do not require a running in as per Mangesh Kodalkar (Fiat after sales service manager), so you can go ahead and enjoy your car.
That is great... no running in required... i can go upto 2500rpm.

Is everybody sure about this, as there are few BHPians who have suggested me not to go beyond 2000rpm during the running-in.
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Old 21st November 2008, 12:25   #25
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Originally Posted by DueLLeR View Post
Bubby, please don't be alarmed if you start hearing rattling noises originating from the back of the car. It's just the badly engineered U bracket used for the hatch latch. These things get loose within a couple of hundred kms and is a known issue in the MJD.
As someone has suggested earlier, spot welding is the only permanent solution.
Hey DueLLer you are spot on with this one... 2 days and the noise is there... but its that annoying and with some good music on board... you dont even feel the rattle... so thisone seems to be going fine with me for now.

If at all in furture it starts annoying me, i will get the thing welded on.
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Old 21st November 2008, 12:28   #26
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Originally Posted by kkdelhi View Post
Congrats, Bubby!

The Palio is one of my favourite good-looking cars, not to mention the solid build of the vehicle, and as rightly mentioned by you - spacious.

Enjoy the new feel!
Thanks you so much kkdelhi... i just the love the solid feel that car returns at the drivers seat... you really feel very secured in the Palio.
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Old 21st November 2008, 12:31   #27
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Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
PLEASE stay above 2000 RPM or below 1500 rpm etc. See my discussions in the FE thread. The turbocharger has been given for a reason.

Maha congrats on a Palio!
I went through the thread some months back, would visit the same again.. once again thanks for all your inputs.

But i will have to ask the question... 90-100kmph good for a 2 day old baby.
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Old 21st November 2008, 12:41   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phamilyman View Post
CAD ji,

Vista crawls at 5-6kph in 2nd gear? My swift won't do anything less than 18-20 in 2nd, 10 kph in first. Sure you didnt miss a digit?
of corz i didnt!

thats one thing i always test during test drives (i dont bother much about power, cornering etc). i slot it into a gear and let go the accelrator and clutch. the car would automatically stick to a minimum speed and continue in that without any lugging. it wont go slower unless the brakes are pressed.

i found that in the vista, the minimum speeds are around 1kmph for 1st gear, 5-6kmph for 2nd gear and 20 for 3rd. this enables me to crawl in traffic efforlessly - i only keep my right foot near the brakes. only constant stop-and-go traffic (bumper to bumper) require 1st to neutral shifts everytime.

its almost as comfortable as driving an automatic in heavy traffic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubby
the thing that you look here is that, at what speed have you approached the car in front... there is lot if difference when you brake from 15-20kmph to zero and when you brake from 05-10kmph to zero in bumper to bumper scenario.
whats speed got to do with torque?

from your post i understand you are equating torque with speed. torque is simply the pulling power. the speed at which you choose to travel has nothing to do with the car's torque. what makes you feel a car with higher torque travels at a higher speed in traffic?

as i said above i can crawl at low speeds without bothering to downshift.

so high torque actually increases FE.
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Old 21st November 2008, 12:55   #29
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Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
whats speed got to do with torque?

from your post i understand you are equating torque with speed. torque is simply the pulling power. the speed at which you choose to travel has nothing to do with the car's torque. what makes you feel a car with higher torque travels at a higher speed in traffic?

as i said above i can crawl at low speeds without bothering to downshift.

so high torque actually increases FE.
Bang On! Spoken like a true diesel fan
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Old 21st November 2008, 13:23   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel View Post
what makes you feel a car with higher torque travels at a higher speed in traffic?
This is one of my favorite topics of discussion! I've been trying to research the relation between torque, power, and perception of power, which is aka fun2drive factor.

As you rightly said, torque is the pulling power of a vehicle and power is the ability to do work in pure physics text book definition. However, humans perceive these differently. It is the torque of the vehicle that gives the perception of power and makes a vehicle fun2drive. For example, if you compare Swift-P and Swift-D, the latter is a good 12 BHP lower. However, when you drive these two, the Swift-D is more fun to drive. In the event of a flat-out drag, I believe the Swift-P will accelerate faster to the ton, after which the Swift-D will take charge.

When you compare numbers on paper, the 87 BHP Swift-P comes across as more powerful than the 75 BHP Swift-D. However, sales-figures and ownership/performance reports sing a different tune.

Of course, I'm not talking why the Swift-D is more fun. I know the DDiS technology (or MultiJet/QuadraJet, if you will) changes the power-delivery characteristics of a vehicle. To quote an even more paradoxical example, try driving a TATA Spacio (3.0L DI, 60bhp@2800rpm, 18.5kgm torque) and then a modest Zen (1.0L, 60bhp@6000rpm, 8.0kgm torque), you'll see that despite having the same power rating, the Spacio will feel much more powerful. However, again, the Zen will win in a flat-out drag.

To summarize, more the torque = more the perception of power and hence the feeling of going fast.

Bubby, sorry to hijack your thread with my non-sense!

Cheers!
DueLLeR
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