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Old 29th January 2009, 23:13   #136
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Originally Posted by anjan_c2007 View Post
Raj I fully support your contention that Mahindra vehicles are amongst the best as far as sturdiness is concerned. Having spent many years with the Willys/Jeep CJ 3B, 4A, 500D, 540 DP,FC260D and now the Bolero, I can vouch that even without safety features Mahindra jeeps cocoon the occupants with their solid body shells.The steel front bumpers of the CJ 3B, CJ 4A and CJ 500D are a terror and can even bash up an Ambassador leave alone the newer plasticky cars, without any dent on the Jeep bumper. These can go where no other four wheeler can tread and return unscathed.FORTRESS ON WHEELS THESE ARE.
Im at a complete loss of words here!
These comments coming from Auto Enthusiasts & comparatively greater knowledgeable about cars, shocks me!

Hard metal does not translate into "safety". It might provide you immunity from nitty gritty incidents at slow speeds within City, but on the highways at greater speeds, this hard metal itself causes harm to the occupants.
Don't equate successful tugs to rickshaws, bumper pushes to fellow cars to safety. At higher speeds, these hard metal parts do not crumple due to which the whole impact is transferred to occupants. My God, please someone educate people on basic safety fundas on this forum.

For a start, refer to : Euro NCAP - For safer cars | HOME
This would atleast give a sneak peek at the crumple mechanism & impact absorption that works wonders in ensuring safety.

Last edited by bhp1 : 29th January 2009 at 23:15.
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Old 29th January 2009, 23:23   #137
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Default Xylo TD thread or discussion on safety?

Excuse me folks, but it seems this thread is developing into a fight for supremacy on the point of safety in Mahindra vehicles, instead of owner reports about the Xylo.

Just to put in my two-penny bit about safety, the US NHTSA banned the old Suzuki Samurai (our very own Gypsy) in the mid-80s because it had a serious roll-over issue. Yet, 20 years later, the same vehicle is one of the most popular 4x4 vehicles in India, and no one seems to find roll-over to be a problem in them - not even the Indian Army. Indian concepts and perceptions of road safety do not follow international norms, so, unless the government wakes up at some point of time and brings in new legislation, there is really no point in arguing ourselves breathless. We wear seatbelts to save the 100-rupee traffic fine, not to save ourselves in a crash. Correct me if I'm wrong, or start a new thread on this issue.
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Old 30th January 2009, 08:34   #138
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Indian concepts and perceptions of road safety do not follow international norms, so, unless the government wakes up at some point of time and brings in new legislation, there is really no point in arguing ourselves breathless. .
We wear seatbelts to save the 100-rupee traffic fine, not to save ourselves in a crash. [/quote]


With full credit to what you have said, does that not mean we should really lay off cars till we reach the buying power that will allow us to buy these well engineered cars?

Then, by simple extension of the same logic, I am seriously worried about the safety standards that my house has been built to! And all my loved ones are living in it!! Heck, I live in a known seismic zone and my house has no earthquake resistance features!

I also wonder whether I should ever dare to drive, in my very unsafe car, on roads that were made in utter and total ignorance of safe town planning & design practices.

You get the idea ....

What I'm trying to say is that there is an evolutionary cycle that each country goes through. Intimate link to economic might cannot be overlooked.
There was a time the Americans were driving cars that today are not even street legal in that same country.
None of these cars had seat belts. It took awareness campaigns, education and law enforcement to make seat belts second nature. This took a generation, in terms of time.


Perhaps we will get there too, ... someday? Or, do you believe, as the Honourable Supreme Court judge observed, that even God cannot save this country!
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Old 30th January 2009, 08:53   #139
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very well said anup sir. i would say lets just not target any specific manufacturer.

no other vehicle in that price has the safety bhp1 talks about, manufacturers have to make their profit too while selling cars, they are not into social service, you know!

i am not saying bhp1 is entirely wrong in what he is saying but according to him innova is a very safe car and xylo is not. but then what about those who cannot afford an innova and can only afford a base model xylo?

bhp1, alto is not the safest car in india, still its the highest selling car. and that is ot because indians are ignorant as you say. its because that car fits the budget of many. its not always about safety or manufacturer, consider the economics too. not everybody can afford an innova.

also i can see that you own a 800, now is that a 'safe' car? i dont think so. it might have been the car that suited your requirements and budget then. i hope you get my point...

Last edited by raj_5004 : 30th January 2009 at 08:56.
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Old 30th January 2009, 09:25   #140
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Originally Posted by anupmathur View Post
There was a time the Americans were driving cars that today are not even street legal in that same country.
None of these cars had seat belts. It took awareness campaigns, education and law enforcement to make seat belts second nature. This took a generation, in terms of time.
Even before that there was a time when US car manufactures or the US govt never cared for car safety. It took years of Ralph Nader to change that.
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Old 30th January 2009, 12:44   #141
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This is a test drive / initial ownership thread. So please continue the irrelevant (here) discussions elsewhere.
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Old 30th January 2009, 15:08   #142
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1. Im only trying to educate people about the nature of vehicles, prime being unsafe! This point shall only ring on the ears of those to whom safety matters.
2. In a Scorpio/Xylo, Airbags would be a waste,
1. Buddy , please come down from your ivory tower & take your "education" lecture series elsewhere. Your condescending tone & assumption that every one who buys a mahindra is uneducated , ignorant & who does not value the lives of their loved ones is a great leap of imagination ., to say the least.

This thread is for TD report of xylo - allow the ignorant, uneducated, loveless mahindra owners to wallow in their misery in peace. Move on !! You do not deserve to be with mere mortals here., who buy mahindras!! I hope & pray your entry level car will be a Merc S class, with 12 airbags.

2. How ? any data you have , comparing the 2 ?

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Last edited by Samurai : 30th January 2009 at 19:21. Reason: personal attack
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Old 30th January 2009, 17:30   #143
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Originally Posted by w 12 View Post
1. Buddy , please come down from your ivory tower & take your "education" lecture series elsewhere. Your condescending tone & assumption that every one who buys a mahindra is uneducated , ignorant & who does not value the lives of their loved ones is a great leap of imagination ., to say the least.

This thread is for TD report of xylo - allow the ignorant, uneducated, loveless mahindra owners to wallow in their misery in peace. Move on !! You do not deserve to be with mere mortals here., who buy mahindras!! I hope & pray your entry level car will be a Merc S class, with 12 airbags.

2. How ? any data you have , comparing the 2 ?

p
This was totally unwarranted! Your reply to the thread does not add any value, Im just replying to clear the air.
I mentioned diff. reasons & as many as I could about people choosing unsafe vehicles, you've picked the ones you liked or which you assumed maybe fitted your course!
This is what I referred to earlier too, any attempt to educate(everybody learns, including me), enlighten viewers, attracts undue ire, sad though.

"This thread is about Xylo", perhaps you did not take time out to read my entire comments, I always referred to both Scorpio/Xylo & then went on to say that there is a generic problem.

Maybe someday you would realize the unsafe nature of M&M vehicles & repent your misdoings, until then best of luck.

I picked up the most important aspect in a vehicle - "Safety", which as it turns out, repels most, sad again! Mine were very selfless comments & were made in order to secure readers, but maybe in today's times good advise is often taken as crap!

Verify anywhere & everywhere, Scorpio/Xylo are not safe vehicles compared to competition. They do come at attractive price points, but safety should be upheld over money, that's according to me, maybe limp according to others!

Also, had you followed the link I provided, you won't have jumped to S-class to say the least. Minding ones own business is the best business at times!

Sayonara!
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Old 30th January 2009, 18:11   #144
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
1. This was totally unwarranted!

2. Maybe someday you would realize the unsafe nature of M&M vehicles & repent your misdoings, until then best of luck.

3. Mine were very selfless comments & were made in order to secure readers, but maybe in today's times good advise is often taken as crap!

4. Verify anywhere & everywhere, Scorpio/Xylo are not safe vehicles compared to competition.

5. but safety should be upheld over money, that's according to me, maybe limp according to others!

6. Minding ones own business is the best business at times!

Sayonara!
1. Disagree, Anup mathur & others pointed out to you earlier the condescension in your "educative" comments, but were too polite to tell you may be you are crossing the line. But unfortunately that did not stop you from making similar comments again. I stand by my comments.

2. May be not. See my point no.1. Repent ? for the sin of buying mahindra? May be mahindra should start confession booths in their dealerships / service centres as an additional revenue model ! Btw, people do get killed in all sorts of cars, if the driver is an idiot.

3. More power to you. IMO ,'education" is fine , as long as one does not assume every one else in the world is an idiot. Condescension is certainly taken as crap.

4. Unless this can be backed up by some sort of validated data, it is just a statement. Btw, How many xylos have you seen on road , crashed to make that statement?

5. Ideally yes, but actual sales numbers across makes / models tell a different story, in the indian market . But things are changing , slooowly.

6. Absolutely! If people want buy mahindra & then do not repent their misdoings in a confession box, let them be
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Old 30th January 2009, 18:49   #145
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1. Disagree, Anup mathur & others pointed out to you earlier the condescension in your "educative" comments, but were too polite to tell you may be you are crossing the line. But unfortunately that did not stop you from making similar comments again. I stand by my comments.

2. May be not. See my point no.1. Repent ? for the sin of buying mahindra? May be mahindra should start confession booths in their dealerships / service centres as an additional revenue model ! Btw, people do get killed in all sorts of cars, if the driver is an idiot.

3. More power to you. IMO ,'education" is fine , as long as one does not assume every one else in the world is an idiot. Condescension is certainly taken as crap.

4. Unless this can be backed up by some sort of validated data, it is just a statement. Btw, How many xylos have you seen on road , crashed to make that statement?

5. Ideally yes, but actual sales numbers across makes / models tell a different story, in the indian market . But things are changing , slooowly.

6. Absolutely! If people want buy mahindra & then do not repent their misdoings in a confession box, let them be
1. You are free to stand by your unfounded comments!
I never crossed the line of polity, don't know where you fell inbetween!

2. Patience is a virtue, had you read my posts with it, this situation won't have arisen. I always maintained that take the same driver in diff. cars & relatively Innova is safer than the Scorpio/ Xylo. Where does an "Idiot" driver fall inbetween, I don't know!

3. I guess only you took yourself to be one! Education enlightens!
Poor language interpretation is a cardinal sin, that too indicates lack of education!

4. FACT: Xylo shares its platform with the Scorpio, please don't unnecessarily argue more, you almost know nothing & refuse to be educated!

5. I never asked people to repent, but warned future prospective buyers, for whom "safety" is a concern. Offcourse you can continue to think otherwise!

All Im reffering to is that Scorpio/Xylo are not safe enough vehicles & those who can stretch their budgets or place life at a higher pedestal than money, should resist! Rest is all ones own choice, I felt like making a suggestion & have done that.

Im putting an end to this conversation from my side, offcourse you are free to continue to spam the forum at you own will, please carry on...!

Have a safe journey guys!
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Old 30th January 2009, 18:55   #146
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Just to put in my two-penny bit about safety, the US NHTSA banned the old Suzuki Samurai (our very own Gypsy) in the mid-80s because it had a serious roll-over issue. Yet, 20 years later, the same vehicle is one of the most popular 4x4 vehicles in India, and no one seems to find roll-over to be a problem in them - not even the Indian Army. Indian concepts and perceptions of road.
Hate to go OT, but small correction. The Samurai is not identical to the Gypsy. It has a smaller wheelbase and smaller rear overhang and it also had a more powerful engine (1.6?). In addition i think it had chunkier tires (higher c.g). All these contributed to the rollover issue. The Indian Gypsy is not so roll prone otherwise it would have manifested itself in umpteen crashes on the Indian roads regardless if the Govt cared or not.
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Old 30th January 2009, 19:26   #147
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relax bhp1, you probably got such a response because your tone was such, not the content. proving that mahindra owners are 'idiots & uneducated' and that we dont care for our loved ones was a bit harsh, hence such a reaction. its justified, isnt it? so lets take this as a peaceful debate and lets not get offended. i have faced the wrath of my fellow mates numerous times on this forum, so i know what i am saying!

chill...

my reply in bold:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
This was totally unwarranted! Your reply to the thread does not add any value, Im just replying to clear the air.
I mentioned diff. reasons & as many as I could about people choosing unsafe vehicles, you've picked the ones you liked or which you assumed maybe fitted your course!
This is what I referred to earlier too, any attempt to educate(everybody learns, including me), enlighten viewers, attracts undue ire, sad though.

sadly, your thinking that mahindra owners are idiots (you said it indirectly though!) is totally unwarranted.
buddy, you should realize one thing, every individual has different needs from his vehicle. for example, consider our Mr. anup mathur. he drives over to the most unimaginable locations like ladakh & leh. his budget is 10 lakhs & he wants a 4WD. so what do you expect him to do? sell his house & buy a land cruiser?

"This thread is about Xylo", perhaps you did not take time out to read my entire comments, I always referred to both Scorpio/Xylo & then went on to say that there is a generic problem.

friend, i bet you have not driven the xylo extensively to post such a comment.

Maybe someday you would realize the unsafe nature of M&M vehicles & repent your misdoings, until then best of luck.

have you owned a M&M vehicle? which one? for how many years & how many kms you drove it? this will justify this comment of yours and we MAY take you seriously.

I picked up the most important aspect in a vehicle - "Safety", which as it turns out, repels most, sad again! Mine were very selfless comments & were made in order to secure readers, but maybe in today's times good advise is often taken as crap!

i am seriously cosidering this as a healthy debate and no crap, trust me.

Verify anywhere & everywhere, Scorpio/Xylo are not safe vehicles compared to competition. They do come at attractive price points, but safety should be upheld over money, that's according to me, maybe limp according to others!

please mention the 'anywhere & everywhere'. also, competition is sumo grande, tavera & rhino... not the innova. (pricing is an important factor, you see.)

Also, had you followed the link I provided, you won't have jumped to S-class to say the least. Minding ones own business is the best business at times!

ok, not an S-class, but why an 800? you have not answered this question still.

also, you have not answered one more query, still i will repeat it the third time for you... which other SUV/MUV in this price offers you better safety than scorpio & xylo, with reasons of course. FYI, sumo, tavera & grande should be compared, not innova as innova is not in the same price range. remmber, many cannot afford an innova.

Sayonara!

bye!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
1. You are free to stand by your unfounded comments!
I never crossed the line of polity, don't know where you fell in between!

2. Patience is a virtue, had you read my posts with it, this situation won't have arisen. I always maintained that take the same driver in diff. cars & relatively Innova is safer than the Scorpio/ Xylo. Where does an "Idiot" driver fall inbetween, I don't know!

i have seen 2 cases of accident in innovas, both in kerela, in both cases the innova was completely burnt in the event of a head-on collision. one innova toppled, yes toppled, in front of my car at speeds of 80 kmph on the mumbai pune express highway. nobody knows the reason why! the driver was badly injured. check out the condition of the innova in the 'pics of accidents in india' thread, have a look at the condition of the car. so is that a safe car? now now now, i am myself an innova owner, so nothing against toyota or innova owners pls!

3. I guess only you took yourself to be one! Education enlightens!
Poor language interpretation is a cardinal sin, that too indicates lack of education!

that again is a harsh statement, but i wont intervene.

4. FACT: Xylo shares its platform with the Scorpio, please don't unnecessarily argue more, you almost know nothing & refuse to be educated!

buddy, this is what enraged w12. are you the only one who knows everything and we are all uneducated? a debate is fine but should be on healthy grounds from both sides.

5. I never asked people to repent, but warned future prospective buyers, for whom "safety" is a concern. Offcourse you can continue to think otherwise!

you are warning buyers to stay away from the xylo without even extensively driving it?

All Im reffering to is that Scorpio/Xylo are not safe enough vehicles & those who can stretch their budgets or place life at a higher pedestal than money, should resist! Rest is all ones own choice, I felt like making a suggestion & have done that.

Im putting an end to this conversation from my side, offcourse you are free to continue to spam the forum at you own will, please carry on...!

Have a safe journey guys!
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Old 30th January 2009, 19:42   #148
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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Maybe someday you would realize the unsafe nature of M&M vehicles & repent your misdoings, until then best of luck.
I dont know how the above statement may sound to others but to me it sounds like wishing "Maybe someday you will meet with an accident in your m&m vehicle & repent on buying it, until then best of luck".


PS :I tried my best not to post in this thread before TDing the xylo, but couldnt resist.

Last edited by badboyscad : 30th January 2009 at 20:01.
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Old 30th January 2009, 20:05   #149
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@Raj, Im completely chilled out, its obvious for you to call my tone harsh simply because you were on the other side & a proud M&M owner. Anyway I never stepped out of my line of polity! I never mentioned any one to be Idiot or uneducated, just said that I was trying to educate the ones who don't know the facts. "Educate" is not a bad word in anyway, everybody goes to school for educatoin & learns throughout ones life.

No I never meant M&M owners were idiots, I only said that M&M vehicles are not safe, peolple are contesting this fact, what can one do! Everyone is free to buy the vehicle of their own choice, who am I to stop! Yes people can buy vehicles suited to their requirements, Im not asking not to, but why is it so difficult for them to know that their vehicle is not safe enough! If Scorpio is unsafe, so it is, what can you or me do, Im just putting it on record, why all the contest!
If people don't know that it is unsafe & buying it thinking otherwise, knowing after their purchase should not offend them.

My dear Xylo shares the same platform with the Scorpio, one would ideally not have to drive it extensively to know if its safe or not, its so simple!

As I said, one does not need to jump in a well of fall in fire to know how deep or how hot it is, same way I know about M&M vehicles.

As the thread is about M&M vehicles, I was sticking to M&M. Yes even Sumo/Safari/Rhino are unsafe, Im ready for more undue brickbats!

Yes even 800 is unsafe.
Why not compare Xylo/Scorpio with Innova? As I said, life should have priority against money, if you think otherwise, its your choice!
Alright the ones who cannot afford Innova or don't like it for other reasons, or whatever, can buy whatever they like/choose, Im not contesting this, but why does it pain them to know their choice is unsafe!!!! Bruised ego is all I can see here!


Yes, you are right about Innova getting disfigured in event of accidents, this proves its safety factor. Again news to you, don't worry this is the justification for body crumpling in an event of an accident, cars like Scorpio do not crumple & transfer all the impact to the occupants inside. Mark my words & get them verified from some auto expert, then you would start getting my point!

Its a fact that Scorpio & Xylo share platform, what can I do if somebody does not agree with the facts!

Im just alerting safety concious buyers about Xylos lack of safety, if people do not want my suggestions, its fine with me, Im not at a loss!

It makes me angry/pains that the ones who know nothing about safety aspects in a car, are contesting unnecessarily, thats why I mentioned get your facts right first, then contest!

Anyway, this again proves a point that users of respective cars, can't handle/hear comments about their belongings/choice. Don't worry if you agree, that Scorpio isn't safe enough, you won't be losing a title!
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Old 30th January 2009, 20:33   #150
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Disclaimers
- I don't own a M & M vehicle.
- I have never sat inside a M & M vehicle, as far as I remember
- I have no opinions as to who is right in this argument & who is
wrong
- I have no opinions as to who has crossed the line & who hasn't.
- I have no opinions as to whether someone has misinterpreted someone else or not.

But

Quote:
Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
Poor language interpretation is a cardinal sin, that too indicates lack of education!
This is most certainly not true. The language of the board is English. English may or may not be the first language of anyone on this board.
So linking English language interpretation to Education is meaningless.
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