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Old 30th January 2009, 21:23   #151
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Hate to go OT, but small correction. The Samurai is not identical to the Gypsy. It has a smaller wheelbase and smaller rear overhang and it also had a more powerful engine (1.6?). In addition i think it had chunkier tires (higher c.g). All these contributed to the rollover issue. The Indian Gypsy is not so roll prone otherwise it would have manifested itself in umpteen crashes on the Indian roads regardless if the Govt cared or not.
Sorry to correct you as well as keep getting off topic, but the Gypsy [ Maruti Gypsy car: Specifications, Dimensions, Weight, Engine, Power Transmission, price ] is taller, with a longer wheelbase than the Samurai [ Samurai 1986 Specifications - Trucks 4x4 @ Off-Road.com ], but has the same track width front and rear, the same tyres (205/70 R15), and a 1.3L MPFi 80 bhp engine vs. the carb-fed engine on the Samuri making a puny 60 bhp in comparison. The Gypsy should be more prone to rollover than the Samurai. I did my homework before I posted.
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Old 30th January 2009, 22:40   #152
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Sorry to correct you as well as keep getting off topic, but the Gypsy
The Gypsy should be more prone to rollover than the Samurai. I did my homework before I posted.
Well the bottomline is that the Gypsy and the Samurai are not identical. Have you ever seen a Samurai? I have driven and ridden one right here in the US and I have also driven a Gypsy and I am providing first hand information. Have you seen Gypsies rolled over everywhere? The Gypsy is taller because of the cloth top which adds hardly any weight. Googling will not give you the full story.

As you can see the wheelbase and overhang is shorter that pretty much changes the whole behaviour of the vehicle. The engine I was not sure (felt peppy) and so I put a ? in my post. BTW the older Gypsies had an even narrower track and they weren't rolling either.

Last edited by Mpower : 30th January 2009 at 22:43.
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Old 30th January 2009, 22:44   #153
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**************************************************

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Originally Posted by bhp1 View Post
@Raj, Im completely chilled out, its obvious for you to call my tone harsh simply because you were on the other side & a proud M&M owner.

good to hear that.
i am very open to niggles of scorpios like a below average ride quality, poor plastics and average cabin space. so this debate has nothing to do with me being a scorpio owner.

No I never meant M&M owners were idiots, I only said that M&M vehicles are not safe, peolple are contesting this fact, what can one do! Everyone is free to buy the vehicle of their own choice, who am I to stop! Yes people can buy vehicles suited to their requirements, Im not asking not to, but why is it so difficult for them to know that their vehicle is not safe enough! If Scorpio is unsafe, so it is, what can you or me do, Im just putting it on record, why all the contest!
If people don't know that it is unsafe & buying it thinking otherwise, knowing after their purchase should not offend them.

the contest here is because many scorpio owners here, who have lived with the vehicles day in & day out, who has travelled or driven the scorpio lakhs of kms have not felt that it is an unsafe vehicle and you are just saying this because you 'think so' or have 'read' somewhere.
if you remember, i started this debate when you pointed out that scorpios & xylos have sloppy handling.

My dear Xylo shares the same platform with the Scorpio, one would ideally not have to drive it extensively to know if its safe or not, its so simple!

so do you mean chassis is the only criteria for a safe car? so why are these mahufacturers spending lakhs on suspension tuning, etc.

As I said, one does not need to jump in a well of fall in fire to know how deep or how hot it is, same way I know about M&M vehicles.

you do sir! the phrase sounds good, but does not apply here!
just by looking at a vehicle, you cant decide how good it is.
for example, to judge a scorpio's handling, you need to compare it with a safari, not an innova. similarly, the xylo's handling can be compared with the tavera.

As the thread is about M&M vehicles, I was sticking to M&M. Yes even Sumo/Safari/Rhino are unsafe, Im ready for more undue brickbats!

Yes even 800 is unsafe.

why did you buy it then?

Why not compare Xylo/Scorpio with Innova? As I said, life should have priority against money, if you think otherwise, its your choice!
Alright the ones who cannot afford Innova or don't like it for other reasons, or whatever, can buy whatever they like/choose, Im not contesting this, but why does it pain them to know their choice is unsafe!!!! Bruised ego is all I can see here!

why does it pain? buddy, all you can do is blame us that we are ignorant, uneducated & have bruised egos. but why should we accept to a fact which we dont feel is true? not everybody will think the way you do!

now you have a corolla. i am saying that a civic is safer than a corolla, i have driven a corolla just for a few kms, but a civic "looks" safer to me. you are ignorant or uneducated according to me then. you have absolutely no concern for your loved ones! how will you react to this statement of mine? by saying "well thanks a ton!"... nope, i dont think so. you are bound to react, isnt it?

i am not saying you cant have a different opinion sir! but expecting all others to accept that whatever you are saying is right, else they are having 'bruised egos' is wrong, IMHO.

Yes, you are right about Innova getting disfigured in event of accidents, this proves its safety factor. Again news to you, don't worry this is the justification for body crumpling in an event of an accident, cars like Scorpio do not crumple & transfer all the impact to the occupants inside. Mark my words & get them verified from some auto expert, then you would start getting my point!

i am an automobile engineer and i do know about crumple zones sir! but then in the 2 incidents that happened in kerela, a family of 4 were killed in the first accident and 2 were killed in the second accident. now?

Its a fact that Scorpio & Xylo share platform, what can I do if somebody does not agree with the facts!

we should agree to them even if we dont believe thay are true?

Im just alerting safety concious buyers about Xylos lack of safety, if people do not want my suggestions, its fine with me, Im not at a loss!

buddy, please speak about the cars you own, that is, ikon & corolla & 800, i would positively take your advice. you have not driven a xylo enough to make such a statement.

It makes me angry/pains that the ones who know nothing about safety aspects in a car, are contesting unnecessarily, thats why I mentioned get your facts right first, then contest!

well it pains me to know that a guy who has never driven a M&M vehicle is giving advices on its safety.

Anyway, this again proves a point that users of respective cars, can't handle/hear comments about their belongings/choice. Don't worry if you agree, that Scorpio isn't safe enough, you won't be losing a title!

god bless!
P.S.: all debates to be taken in the right spirit, nothing personal.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 30th January 2009 at 22:47.
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Old 30th January 2009, 22:47   #154
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Originally Posted by Mpower View Post
Have you ever seen a Samurai?
Sorry MPower, let's not fight about this. I have seen a Samurai too, driven it too, that too at Maruti's plant in Gurgaon, many years ago.

Can we please close the OT rollover discussion in the Xylo thread? You're the Mod. No offence.
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Old 30th January 2009, 23:40   #155
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@Raj, most of the vehicles are good to drive & once you start living with them, you start liking them, people live happily with 800 too, even I own a 800 & am happy with the car, but I also know & openly admit that it is unsafe vehicle.
Why would you not admit that Scorpio is unsafe?
I have driven Scorpio for ~ 2.5k kms., its good to drive, etc. but braking is pathetic, handling is bad, body roll is exceptional, driving position makes one feel as if in case of an accident or heavy braking, driver would fly off the front glass. Otherwise too, its built is not crash worthy.


Sharing same platform means sharing the same virtues, so if predecessor is unsafe, how can the successor be safe.

2 bads don't make 1 good, comparing one unsafe car to another unsafe one is illogical! Innova is the gold standard in the segment, everything has to be pitted against the best.

Yes, I bought 800, love it, drive it, etc. but also know/admit its unsafe. So, whenever suggesting it to someone, I always mention its unsafe.

I'll clarify about Corolla, mine is not the Altis, but the gen. before & its a safe car. You can check out on the link I provided earlier too. This particular model acquired 4 stars out of 5 in Euroncap crash test norms & the Civic also has 4, so ideally both are safe bets. Also, even if Civic turns out to be shade better, I don't mind because Corolla is adequately safe, anything more is welcome, but it isn't something one can't do without.

What do you want to know about my cars, Ikon is safe, but just because its an old car & newer ones have superior safety.
Cielo- safe, but not uptodate with modern times, obviously understood!
Astra- safe, again by older regimes.
Palio- safe, but again lags behind the modern offerings.
Swift- safe, some essential safety kit missing though(in lower models)
Innova - safe, but mine does not have ABS/Airbags, so lags a little.
My older cars- Gypsy- not safe, old standards.
Zen- not safe enough, old engineering again.
Are you satisfied!

Sir, listen I don't have to drive Scorpio/Xylo to comment about its safety aspect, these cars haven't been through specified crash testing regimes & are products of old school M&M engineering, as unsafe as they come!

I really expected more from a said Automobile Engineer atleast!
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Old 31st January 2009, 01:49   #156
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Sorry to butt in here and blow my whistle. I have been watching this enamouring debate on who is educating whom and who knows the best about Mahindras.

Let me make a few things clear at this point.
* This is only and only a Xylo TD thread, period. I hope all you good guys see the point I am making.
* bhp1, no one is averse to 'education' the term you seem to be so enamoured with. However the word also goes with the understanding that the one imparting it is inherently more knowledgeable than the others. I guess you see where the problem lies. So please... Your's is merely an opinion and you can definitely put it across on this board, just as others can put across theirs and may or may not agree with others. But don't try to ram it down other's throats forcefully.
* Others, this or for that matter any thread on this board can not be used to attack fellow members or start flame wars.

Henceforth (after this message) any further arguments on M&M's vehicles and the idiocy or intelligence of their buyers on this TD thread will be viewed in a dim light.

So get back on the tracks please.

Last edited by Zappo : 31st January 2009 at 01:51.
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Old 31st January 2009, 08:03   #157
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Some comments of mine below:

1. I have driven a Bolero for 30000 kms and many many Mahindra Jeeps before that - cannot estimate the number of Kms driven.
2. Driven several Scorpios including the old Gen and my newer Gen one AND the latest gen one - maybe around 15000 odd kms or so total over the last few years.
3. Now I ve also TD'd the Xylo and can clearly see progress as outlined in my earlier post.

I ve put feedback on Scorpio handling on several other threads and beg to differ in some ways with what is said below by BHP1.

1. Braking - you cannot just jam the brakes on this vehicle and expect the vehicle to stop. Pumping the brakes a bit while braking and at the same time, shifting down a gear or two is a better way to slow down from speeds over 80Kmph. Better to use the gears always. ABS is a huge necessity on vehicles as big as Scorpio, especially on wet road conditions. The seat belts are very adequate to keep one firmly locked in. However a 3 pointer harness seat belt would be excellent.
2. Body roll is expected to an extent with a vehicle with such a high CG. (Does anyone here seriously think that a "foreign" Land Cruiser/ Land Rover does not have any body roll??- Please think again!!)
Therefore one cannot drive it like one would, a sports sedan. However, even in the back seat, when the passengers are strapped in properly, there is a marked reduction in being "thrown around". After all, the vehicle does come equipped with three seat belts in the back and these ought to be used by passengers.
3. Driving position: I am 6ft 2 inches tall and yes, compared with my Bolero the Scorpio has a little less legroom. But I would NOT say the driving position is as bad as is made out below, provided of course one is strapped in properly.
4. By placing some reasonable ballast/ load in the rear of the Scorpio and/ or travelling in it with 4 passengers plus assorted golf bags/luggage etc, I have clearly seen that the vehicle sits very well on the road even while taking curves etc.
5.But here I repeat - you cannot expect to drive at speeds more than 120 MAX MAX unless you want a tension filled/ uncomfortable drive. After all, driving is meant to get you comfortably to your destination and the comfort of your passengers plays a very large part, as does a sense of "responsibility" towards other road users. And we know very well that our highways, however great they may be now when compared with the past, are nowhere near the highways abroad. Consequently one needs to drive accordingly. IMO the optimum speed for Scorpio on highway is 90-110kmph. This is very comfortable, controllable and certainly helps save/ maximise Fuel efficiency as well.
6.Last but not least, one is NOT supposed to "fling" such vehicles around curves, either on the plains OR in the hills, unless one secretly harbours a death wish of some kind. After all, lets not ever forget in our enthusiasm for driving and showing off our various skills, that in all these vehicles, we are riding on a combination of rubber, carbon black, metal and AIR - namely, ones wheels & tyres!

All I wish to say at the end of these points is that with each subsequent effort by Mahindra's, we are seeing considerable improvement over the last generation of their vehicles. There is no reason to suppose this progress will stop. As the country, environment, expectations and "education" of vehicle users/ buyers/ road users improves with time, we will keep receiving better things from indigenous manufacturers like Mahindras. Having grown up with old CJ 500 jeeps, Ambys, Fiats, Standard Heralds and so on, I do believe the Indian vehicle situation has come a long way in the last 12 years or so - more progress made in the last decade than was made over the last 50 years of Independence!

Therefore, lets all of us stop "pontificating" and move on with life.

Cheers

[quote=bhp1;1151842]
Why would you not admit that Scorpio is unsafe?
I have driven Scorpio for ~ 2.5k kms., its good to drive, etc. but braking is pathetic, handling is bad, body roll is exceptional, driving position makes one feel as if in case of an accident or heavy braking, driver would fly off the front glass. Otherwise too, its built is not crash worthy.

Last edited by shankar.balan : 31st January 2009 at 08:09.
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Old 31st January 2009, 09:10   #158
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Originally Posted by Zappo View Post
Sorry to butt in here and blow my whistle.
* This is only and only a Xylo TD thread, period.
Henceforth (after this message) any further arguments on M&M's vehicles and the idiocy or intelligence of their buyers on this TD thread will be viewed in a dim light.

So get back on the tracks please.
Thank you for that, Zappo. Meanwhile, dug up an acceleration figure of 0-60 km/h in 5.8 seconds for the Xylo from the Co. website http://www.mahindraxylo.co.in./Admin...e_13%20Jan.pdf. What might the 0-100 km/h figure be like? Also, they are now mentioning the 2+2 year 100,000 km Shield warranty for the Xylo. This scheme exists for all the other MM vehicles too, but it seems the dealers never promote or advertise this.
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Old 31st January 2009, 11:28   #159
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Why not compare Xylo/Scorpio with Innova? As I said, life should have priority against money, if you think otherwise, its your choice!
1. Has the Xylo been crash-tested?

2. Does it come equipped with ABS / Airbags in any variant?

3. Can it manage an emergency manouveur at high speeds?

4. Is the Xylo stable under hard braking?

The Xylo loses out on each of these 4 points, based on current information.
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Old 31st January 2009, 12:35   #160
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Originally Posted by SS-Traveller View Post
Also, they are now mentioning the 2+2 year 100,000 km Shield warranty for the Xylo. This scheme exists for all the other MM vehicles too, but it seems the dealers never promote or advertise this.
You'd have to visit a dealer to see that there are posters put up offering this Shield Warranty. The service advisers recommend it to almost all the owners and prospective buyers.
An owner can buy this coverage within 2 years, or 50,000 kms, whichever is earlier, of purchase of the vehicle.
The rates applicable vary for the various vehicles.
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Old 31st January 2009, 14:19   #161
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had a TD of the xylo today. here is my version of the review.

Disclaimer: i own a scorpio, so those who feel this review may be biased can avoid this post!

first & foremost, the vehicle is NOT ugly. its looks huge and quite robust. yes, it does not have the street presence of the scorpio but it definitely does not deserve the bashing it reciebed on T-BHP, there are uglier cars around.

EXTERIOR PICS:

The front is quite quirky and styling is a bit odd but i liked the side & rear profile. but it does not have that that typical boxiness present in every mahindras.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-1.jpg

Mahindra Xylo test drive-2.jpg

Mahindra Xylo test drive-3.jpg

Mahindra Xylo test drive-4.jpg

INTERIOR PICS:

# captain seats in the middle row: E6 is only available with captain seats whereas E8 is available in both captain as well as bench seats. i found both the seats very comfortable and spacious. access to seats are good but the vehicle is tall, so you climb onto the seats, not slide into them as in the innova.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009495.jpg

# front seats are great, very supportive and good all round visibilty.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009497.jpg

# instrument cluster is average in design though clarity is good. it makes a sound every time you switch on the turn indicators, which is unnecessary.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009498.jpg

# the central console quality is average. though the AC & stereo knobs had a very good feel to it. the AC slider felt very plasticky. the DDAS displays a lot of info, more on that later.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009499.jpg

# excellent thought: the vanity mirror behind the sun visor has two lights, excellent for the ladies for last minute touch ups in dark!

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009500.jpg

# the lights are lifted off from the scorpio itself. the spectacle holder has a very quality feel, the damped release feels good.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009501.jpg

# two cup holders & recesses besides the handbrake lever. there is a small storage box too behind this. the lid of the box doubles up as another cup holder. actually, the cabin is full of armrests, cup holders & lights!

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009502.jpg

# middle row legroom with front seat fully pulled back.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009503.jpg

# last/third row legroom.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009504.jpg

# every individual has his own AC & reading light.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009505.jpg

# the XXXXL grab handle in the second row.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009506.jpg

# switches for fuel lid, headlight beam adjust & power mirrors besides the steering.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009509.jpg

# the lockable tray under the front driver seat.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009510.jpg

# front driver legroom.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009512.jpg

# the water for rear wash/wipe is to be filled through this filler in the boot door.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009514.jpg
Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009513.jpg

# third row legroom.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009515.jpg

# negligible boot space with all three rows in place.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009517.jpg

# access to third row is fairly easy even for a tall guy like me because of the tall body. its easier than in the innova.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009518.jpg

# tweeters & speakers provided in E6 & E8, quality of music is just decent.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009520.jpg
Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009521.jpg

# front legroom:

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009522.jpg

# green glovebox... EEKS!

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009523.jpg

# rear legroom with front seat fuly forward.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009524.jpg

# bench seat in the second row, not available in E6.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009525.jpg


THE ENGINE:

# The engine is not the most refined unit around. engine noise inside the cabin is similar to tavera. the mHawk & innova is much quiter. the performance is not as much as the scorpio CRDe or scorpio mHawk but better than the innova. outright acceleration is just decent but driveability is great. the vehicle easily pulls from 25 kmph in 3rd gear with 4 passengers.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009496.jpg

Last edited by raj_5004 : 31st January 2009 at 14:21.
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Old 31st January 2009, 14:29   #162
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# no roof mounted AC & minimal cabin lights in base verion- E2.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009526.jpg

# dead pedal enhances drive comfort.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009530.jpg

# armrest provided even for third row passengers. the round void is for speakers, as told to me.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009531.jpg

# DDAS during test drive, its in 4th gear & 46 kph.

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009532.jpg

# refuelling & destination arrived!

Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009533.jpg
Mahindra Xylo test drive-31012009535.jpg


lastly, a few info i collected:

* a newer version, probably E10, will be out in 6-8 months. it will have ABS & airbags.
* a new engine, code named mustang, will be out in the same time, claimed to give 16 kmpl.
* mahindra is NOT selling this car to the taxi market meanwhile, atleast until the newer version is launched.

overall, i am very impressed with the interiors of the vehicle. the engine could have been more refined.

i found the suspension a bit soft. though this gives a good ride quality, the vehicle's front dips quite a bit under hard braking. however, i noticed no swaying or bobbing. braking is good but ABS is needed. the vehicle rolls more than the innova but not as much as scorpio, safari & sumo grande & tavera.
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Old 31st January 2009, 14:57   #163
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Raj, I think your test drive and impression is absolutely spot on! One of the main gripes were the colours used for the plastics, especially the colour scheme for the interior panels (green glow box, purple inserts, etc). Not quiet sure if M&M thought these were "Refreshing" but it ends up making it look cheap. A proper full black interior would have made it look so much better.

Plastics are not of the best quality but then again, at this price, I ain't complaining.

Your inputs about the body roll etc are also spot on. It is not as bad as it is made out to be but definitely can be improved (am hoping M&M is working on these aspects as these will make the XYLO a sure winner).

As a last note, the XYLO seems to be generating quiet a healthy interest, with more than 50 cars booked already in my town (Coimbatore). Compare this to 15 Lineas booked so far.

Last edited by quicksilver : 31st January 2009 at 15:09.
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Old 31st January 2009, 15:07   #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raj_5004 View Post
had a TD of the xylo today. here is my version of the review.

Disclaimer: i own a scorpio, so those who feel this review may be biased can avoid this post!
Good one Raj. Excellent pix which helps one understand the pros and cons. I will post the videos later.
  • liked the Xylo.
  • looks far better in real life
  • good built quality than what people say here !
  • tight shut lines
  • good upholstery stuff
  • dash looks and plastics better than in Safari
  • dont feel the turbo lag as in Safari
  • easier to drive in city
  • smaller turning radius
  • carry your luggage on your lap !
  • engine is not loud as one say (felt to be more silent than of Innova)
  • hate the gear knob
  • test car and hence maybe thats why I found it tough to get the 3rd gear correctly during the drag run.
  • looks smaller than Innova, but is spacious (of course less than Safari)
  • 3rd row is good.
  • You can open the 3rd row window..
I drove the E8. It costs 8.4OTR in Tvm. Great buy it is. Would recommend.

*I didnt try high speed cornering & lot and I presume its should be stable under 100 and hard barking. I tried till 80kmph and it felt good and stable.

Good one Mahindra.

Siram, heard Mahindra has sold out its 1st month's lot.

Last edited by jkdas : 31st January 2009 at 15:08.
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Old 31st January 2009, 15:08   #165
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yes quicksilver, the demand even during recession is great. the first week after its launch, the sales person claims he had around 150 test drives per day! now it has reduced to 80.

the A.S.S. i went to was global gallerie. they have around 800 Xylo bookings. the waiting period is 1 month.

even when Test Driving the vehicle, at a signal a guy peeped out of his car and asked me the on road price and in another junction, an innova driver asked me "how it feels?"!!! so as expected, the curiosity & demand is very high.

@ jkdas: good one buddy. but that disclaimer was necesary in my post, you know why!

yes, the front & middle row space is more or less like in a safari, but where the xylo actually scores is the third row seating. it is ACTUALLY useable with lots of legroom, great seats (not flat & low benches!), AC vents, arm rests and everything. plus the added convinence of front facing seats, not side benches. this one is a true family mover.

Last edited by raj_5004 : 31st January 2009 at 15:12.
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