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Old 11th June 2009, 15:33   #211
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If I were Toyota, I'd be rubbing my hands in glee.

For the longest time Honda had a stranglehold on the top-end of the Indian market but lately they seem to have lost their touch, starting with the Civic Hybrid disaster (now that's an example of how people won't pay anything for a Honda), the CR-V price revision (which makes the Fortuner at 20 lakhs look like a deal) and now the Jazz (which makes all other super hatches look VFM). I'm pretty sure the big T is looking and learning - apparently that's how Toyota works: wait and watch, get it right and eviscerate the competition.

The price of the Jazz, personally to me, would have been acceptable if it was for a loaded AT variant. With the current feature set, Honda needs to give Asimo free or something, to get me interested.
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Old 11th June 2009, 15:38   #212
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Originally Posted by onlysteve View Post

I loved the flexi-flap at the bottom of the front bumper. Do we have something similar in other cars?
i20 has it, and it also has a semi protection for the engine compartment on both sides of the suspension
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Old 11th June 2009, 15:51   #213
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Originally Posted by StarScream View Post
With the current feature set, Honda needs to give Asimo free or something, to get me interested.
that was good one - asimo hahaha
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Old 11th June 2009, 15:55   #214
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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
Couldnt stop myself writing this... What is so brilliant about it? The engine is not... since you yourself said the Maruti 1.2 is as good if not better, it isnt space because the rear seat still cant seat three comfortably, equipment list is sparse, the ride and handling is average, the looks are average and there is no diesel option and then there's the biggest shocker of them all.. the price!
I really want to know whats so good about it... magic seats? 8-10 cupholders?
Let us for a moment think that I have zeroed in on NHC (the older one). Now, Jazz provides all of what was there in NHC + a lot more than that at the same price - agreed it doesn't have a boot but the (boot) space is almost similar (500lts vs. 384lts). And (no, not for a moment do I agree with the current steep pricing) Jazz provides all of that at the same (previous) cost as NHC.

As someone pointed out already, Jazz is the "new" NHC. (ANHC is a different league altogether).

And yes, I agree with Amtak - it wouldn't be dumb to switch (from a choice of NHC) to Jazz.
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:02   #215
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Originally Posted by man_and_machine View Post

3. The feeling on roominess and the comfort while I am in car is so perfect. I will tell you why I felt this is important. Immediately after visting Whitefield Honda in BLR I drove to Adviath so see the i20. And the moment I got into it, I felt a very discomfort in terms of space. I felt I had to watch my elbows, my leg space my seating position and I had to adjust myself into the seat, which was unlike in the Jazz. There I just got into the car and I was home! I did not have the feeling of when will I get out of the car in the Jazz that I felt in the i20. Individually may be the i20 is also nice but when I juxtaposed no comparison with the Jazz.
suggest - check Jazz's rear seat roominess
also check Vista front & rear space, roominess, legrooms, headrooms, in fact "all 'rooms"
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:13   #216
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Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
suggest - check Jazz's rear seat roominess
also check Vista front & rear space, roominess, legrooms, headrooms, in fact "all 'rooms"
I have an indica now and the new vista is no way the next option. The rear roof height in the vista is a sure no-no I hit the roof on a speed breaker in the TD. Any like I said roominess is just one of the main criterion. On a apple-to-apple basis the vista and the Jazz is no comparison

- Harish.
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:17   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VahanPujari View Post
OK. So which segment of customers Honda wants to attract with Jazz with these prices?
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Originally Posted by Carmageddon View Post
As many members have already said... this may appeal as a second car. I have a feeling it may be preferred by the ladies (but then, if I knew what women liked... )
My guess is higher-income families = 2nd / 3rd car in the house. Not too many are going to buy the Jazz as their only car (since a sedan at the same price point can do much more).

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Originally Posted by extreme_torque View Post
What is so brilliant about it?
The car is an all-rounder in many ways. Remember, the best selling cars world-wide are not those which excel in any one area, but rather fulfill the top 3 - 4 priorities of the target market. Just ask the Accord, Camry, Corolla or closer home....the Swift & Santro / i10!

The Jazz is sheer brilliance due to its packaging. As I have stated earlier, it is exceedingly NHC like (which was one of the most successful 8 lakh sedans till date). High quality fit, finish & interior parts, practical, roomy sedan-like interiors, very refined engine, fuel-efficient (high probability & going by int'l reviews of the same engine), sufficient performance for the city and unbelievably high on storage capacity / flexibility. Just like the NHC, this car is extremely easy to drive in the city : super-light controls and a large greenhouse. Then of course, you have traditional Honda advantages in long-term reliability, low cost of ownership. No one can comment on the resale just yet. The Jazz is the perfect city car. Spend an hour with it closely and the engineer in you will be amazed at the many small touches.

The only grouse I have with the car is its inflated pricetag + lack of equipment. A lakh lesser and this hatch would have dominated the premium hatch market & eaten everyone for lunch.

Quote:
The engine is not... since you yourself said the Maruti 1.2 is as good if not better
Read my comment again, I didn't say the engine isn't brilliant. What I stated was my amazement at how Maruti has managed to make a 1.2L that matches the best from Honda. Hat's off to the Ritz team.

It is not necessary for one to be good only at the expense of the other.

Quote:
it isnt space because the rear seat still cant seat three comfortably
In my books, only the Indica, Indigo, Ambassador and Optra can seat 3 comfortably under 10 lakhs (barring MUVs / SUVs). Even my 30 lakh C220 cannot, neither can my Vtec (a 10 lakh car at the time). This doesn't take away from the fact that the Jazz has amongst the most spacious interiors on a hatch (matched prolly only by the Vista).

Quote:
I really want to know whats so good about it... magic seats? 8-10 cupholders?
Do me a favour and keep the sarcasm off the board. Watch your tone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasudeva View Post
Considering that I plan to buy a similar car (Honda/Toyota) for my beloved wife in 2011 (or 2010), your review is of great comfort. She is no enthusiast, and gets scared of driving at speeds approaching 60-65 (kmph that is). Pricing is high but could go down after the initial hype (discounts). Nevertheless, honda is not really known for discounting aggressively.
How about a 2 year old used Jazz then?

Last edited by GTO : 11th June 2009 at 16:19.
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:23   #218
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Originally Posted by GTO View Post
The car is an all-rounder in many ways. Remember, the best selling cars world-wide are not those which excel in any one area, but rather fulfill the top 3 - 4 priorities of the target market.
Going by that logic, shouldnt the GM cars in India also meet with reasonable success? They do not excel in one particular area, but they sure are decent enough all rounders. Or, is it purely based on brand image?

If any other manufacturer came out with the Jazz at this price, i surely dont see them succeeding.
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:24   #219
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Clever car jack of all trades, king of neither. But the real question is, are all these clever features worth extra 2L over the likes of i20/i10/Ritz/Swift etc.,?
Honda worship would have sold lots of Jazz, but I suspect history will repeat. Lots of customers in for Jazz will eventually buy the city, just like lot of customers in for the Civic bought the city instead.

So unless honda makes the city 1L costlier, or the Jazz 1L cheaper, this will be a flop, though not as big a flop as the Fabia.
One question though, whats the level of localization? If its not much, then success or flop does not matter, but if honda has spent a lot of money on the tooling, then they will have to price it lower or suffer losses
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:30   #220
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Quote:
Going by that logic, shouldnt the GM cars in India also meet with reasonable success? They do not excel in one particular area, but they sure are decent enough all rounders. Or, is it purely based on brand image?
Brand, low on FE, limited distribution, can't match reliability or resale etc. etc.
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:34   #221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GTO View Post
Brand, low on FE, limited distribution, can't match reliability or resale etc. etc.
Like i said, i referred to reasonable success. As far as FE is concerned, i think thats more of a historical tag attached to the brand, rather than the current breed of vehicles.

Reliability is for sure a step behind, but resale stems from sales, right?
As for distribution, arent they almost equally matched to the dealers of Honda?
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:38   #222
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The takers of Jazz will be from the C segment - that of Fiesta, SX4, Verna, Aveo (but looking for a Honda badge), and not from the B segment. In that case, selling 1000 Jazz monthly will not be a problem for Honda.
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:46   #223
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Originally Posted by tsk1979 View Post
One question though, whats the level of localization?
I believe it's about 78%. Jazz is the most localized Honda till date. Add the fact that it's length and engine capacity is within the Indian small car excise norms which gives Honda excise benefits and the high price tag suddenly seems like a super rip-off. Considering all the benefits that Honda is getting, they could have easily priced the car a lot (1lac) cheaper and kicked the GP's, Polo's, Ritz's, Fabia's and i20's out of the Indian market
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:48   #224
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One more very good reason for calling Grande Punto a success in India. I am sure Grande Punto is going to gain a VFM car compared to i20 and Honda Ja$$$$

Raneesh
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Old 11th June 2009, 16:48   #225
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I doubt Jazz will sell in our market!

As most of the Indians have a snob value for sedans, putting 8 - 9 lakhs on a hatch simply doesn't make any sense!
For the same money, one can get sedans like Fiesta, Linea, SX4, Aveo etc.

Only super rich looking for a additional car or a die-hard Honda fan may go for it!
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